Is selling raid loot you rolled on cool?

[Thelmallen]

Here's a minor variation on this question... is it acceptable to sell raid chest loot that you didn't roll on?

Suppose you're running VoN on your caster cleric or something and Sword of Shadow appears in the chest with your name on it. You have no use for it, but instead of putting it up for a roll, you decide to auction it off to the highest bidder.

Always seemed a little seedy to me considering that a roll is the convention, but I guess I would consider it "acceptable" due to that whole freedom thing. Not the kind of action that's going to make you any friends, but not one you'd be squelched over either.

If you rolled on it though, you'd better be intending to use it. If you turn around and sell it, you basically just misled everyone.

I agree that the situation you describe is a bit 'seedy' but I wouldn't give anyone a hard time about it, just roll my eyes and chuckle. If you roll on something in a chest, I think most of the well-mannered people in the game would agree that you should be intending to use it, not to sell it to someone who had the misfortune to roll lower than you.

[mudfud]

IF you state you are putting an item up for roll, you have no right to worry about what the winner does with it.
Instead take the few extra second and ASK the party who NEEDS said item. Then, give to 1 of them whom you think will use it, love it, and cherish it.

[Dozen_Black_Roses]

I believe this question is related to another Sarlona thread.

Apparently someone rolled on a Sword of Shadows, won the roll and was passed the SoS. He then proceeded to sell or auction it off from the chest instead of looting it.

In answer to that question - this behavior is completely unacceptable and the person who sold the loot from the chest after winning it in a roll should be blacklisted.

I am all for loot based on need not greed. I regularly give up raid loot to others (friends, guildees, pugs) that I do not personally need. I have given away 2 dreamsplitters in the past week that yes I could have passed to lesser played alts that don't have, but I really would not use that much, and I knew others in the group would use more frequently. In turn, I have been given raid loot that I needed. Just recently I received the last item I needed for my epic goggles for my bard from a pugger who i I was later told had asked for an offer on them in party, although I did not hear this so who knows. Regardless said pugger did put up the item for roll which I won. Thankfully I have never seen someone turn around and auction off what I have passed to them. If so, they would indeed make my blacklist.

That being said, I do notice certain players, especially that are clearly from other cultural groups (not American), who it seems to regularly occur that there is selling of raid loot. I do not see them selling of stuff they won rolls on, just selling loot that the game assigned to them when looting chests. Apparently this is acceptable for them in their gaming culture/norms. So I do not get judgmental or offended, I just finish out and say thanks for the group. I do not personally agree with it, and won't participate in it, but clearly others do, as there never seems to be a lack of persons coughing up items/plat for these trades. In those cases I do not take names, as I see a difference between a cultural norm different than mine, vs. a person that's just greedy and doesn't think conventions/ values apply to them. (who is of the same general gaming culture as I am)

[mws2970]

I'd say no what do you think?

In my opinion, no. It is not ok.

[Beethoven]

Let me rephrase that question:

Is it cool to make profit out of someone else's good will?

No; in my book it is not. I (or whoever pulled it) would want to sell/auction it, I/they could have. To me this is akin to sticking your hand in a public donation box. People put money/donations in there to go to those who need it.

Way I see it: something drops in a person's name. His/her loot, his/her call. Now, (s)he states (s)he wants the loot to go to someone who will actually use it - and if there are several who would, for them to roll on it. Rolling then with the sole intention to turn it into plat is indeed not honoring the loot-pullers wishes.

Seriously, no different than saying: my loot, my call. Your loot, also my call. You act this way and you can be sure I will no longer honor any future rolls on anything I pull. You didn't honor what I wanted to happen with my loot either, right?

Unbound raid loot ? why is this even up for a roll ?

Uhm, because someone is a nice fellow? I have put up unbound loot for a roll if it was something I had no real need for, knew other people in the group were looking for it and if I had fun/felt like the rest of the group are solid kind of fellows.

Now, don't get me wrong. I don't feel there is any obligation to give unbound loot or that not putting it up for roll makes anyone a bad guy. Your loot, your call. However, I am also not faulting someone if they decide to be charitable and donate it to the needy.

[brian14]

Does this count for the chain shirt and breastplate from HoX too? I thought they were BtC vendor trash.

If you find in a chest something THAT useless, which you know nobody will actually wear (and is not BtA, so can't pass to alts), then don't put it up for a roll at all. Just sell it yourself.

Other than that, yes, I think rolling for a stuff you can't personally use is uncool.

[SEMPER]

your loot - pull it do what you want with it

Now loot your rolling on this is what I usually go by :

you roll on it and win - you better be pulling it out of the chest

you roll on it and win and then give it to someone else that loss the roll : Blacklist

you roll on it and try to sell it : Blacklist

pretty easy IMHO

[LordPiglet]

IF you state you are putting an item up for roll, you have no right to worry about what the winner does with it.
Instead take the few extra second and ASK the party who NEEDS said item. Then, give to 1 of them whom you think will use it, love it, and cherish it.

I disagree with the first part. When you're putting it up for roll, you're donating it and it's with an applie understanding that the person who wins will be using the item (not selling it). You could have simply sold it if that was your wish.

I personally don't like putting caveats when I put something up for roll. I don't run with people I feel are shady if I can help it. If I do see someone questionable, then I might put up a caveat, or simply ignore their roll.

[Thrudh]

Instead take the few extra second and ASK the party who NEEDS said item.

That's what "putting it up for a roll" means. "Anyone who NEEDS this item, roll for it"

[Thrudh]

I am all for loot based on need not greed. I regularly give up raid loot to others (friends, guildees, pugs) that I do not personally need. I have given away 2 dreamsplitters in the past week that yes I could have passed to lesser played alts that don't have, but I really would not use that much, and I knew others in the group would use more frequently. In turn, I have been given raid loot that I needed. Just recently I received the last item I needed for my epic goggles for my bard from a pugger who i I was later told had asked for an offer on them in party, although I did not hear this so who knows. Regardless said pugger did put up the item for roll which I won. Thankfully I have never seen someone turn around and auction off what I have passed to them. If so, they would indeed make my blacklist.

That being said, I do notice certain players, especially that are clearly from other cultural groups (not American), who it seems to regularly occur that there is selling of raid loot. I do not see them selling of stuff they won rolls on, just selling loot that the game assigned to them when looting chests. Apparently this is acceptable for them in their gaming culture/norms. So I do not get judgmental or offended, I just finish out and say thanks for the group. I do not personally agree with it, and won't participate in it, but clearly others do, as there never seems to be a lack of persons coughing up items/plat for these trades. In those cases I do not take names, as I see a difference between a cultural norm different than mine, vs. a person that's just greedy and doesn't think conventions/ values apply to them. (who is of the same general gaming culture as I am)

I bet this has some interesting insights, but I can't read a dark color on a black background.

[cdemeritt]

If I put something that drops in my name up for roll, you had better be planning on using it yourself. I find out you "sold" an item you rolled on, I will never pass you anything again.. I just as easily could have sold the item myself.

There are many opinions about "loot" but basically I think for most people when something goes up for a roll, you need to honor the roll. What happens before the item is rolled on is of course another matter. However if you were rolling on an item, and lost the roll, then your part is over and have no rights to said item in anyway (including complaining about what the winner does with it).

[mudfud]

That's what "putting it up for a roll" means. "Anyone who NEEDS this item, roll for it"

I disagree with the first part. When you're putting it up for roll, you're donating it and it's with an applie understanding that the person who wins will be using the item (not selling it). You could have simply sold it if that was your wish.

I personally don't like putting caveats when I put something up for roll. I don't run with people I feel are shady if I can help it. If I do see someone questionable, then I might put up a caveat, or simply ignore their roll.

That's why the whole rolling point is moot. Not everyone is honest enough. With the way I do I decide who gets it, whom I think will best be suited for it. Half the pugs I happen to raid with roll on stuff they have no clue what it is. They see roll d100 for (said item) and roll without even knowing what it is. Or they roll because they might/are TR'ing in the future.

Definately I'd agree if they are shady and I can control it, they will not be coming with me at all.

[twizznach]

Its wrong to auction it if u won the roll but not if u got it as u opened the chest, Both though are in bad taste however. Now offering to buy or trade for the item if someone else won the roll is ok i think because if in 1st case person might roll just to sell it in this 2nd case person is more likely to need the item and therefor would be making a sacrifice buy not looting it and selling it to someone who wanted it bad enough to offer something possibly more valuble instead.

[Kinerd]

Thelmallen hit it exactly on the nose. It is a question of being "well-mannered", and what people actually mean when they say "your loot, your call". Like any slogan, it doesn't really give a complete understanding of the position at hand. Some people mean it literally, and to them it is therefore 100% acceptable for whoever wins the roll to use it on an alt, auction it off, vend it, leave it in the chest, hand it to their pal, etc. Their loot, their call, period. Some people see an implication in the philosophy of putting something up for roll, though, such as Thrudh's "Anyone who NEEDS this item, roll for it". The trouble with implications, of course, is that they are by definition not explicit. Implications lead to misunderstandings, misunderstandings lead to drama, drama leads to suffering. (I think David Bowie said that.)

I would not personally do anything with a won roll but use it, but that use might come on an alt. I am sure you can find someone who will say that that is not appropriate behavior. Even though they would be in the minority, the best way to handle these disputes is to make the unwritten rules that you are following explicit. Nobody knows how to read what is not written. Most (well... some) people know how to read what is.

[Renvar]

So, Let me pose this question?

Let's say its VON.

Player Y (casting spec cleric. No plan to TR) pulls an eSOS shard.

Player X desparately wants Shard. Sends tell and offers 4 large scales for the shard. Or whatever. A godfather offer.

Player Y decides to put Shard up for roll because selling loot is in poor form in their opinion.

Player X rolls and loses
Player Z rolls and wins.

Player X sends tell to player Z with same offer. Player Z is a melee sort, but has no SoS, seal, or scroll. But does have a Lit II great axe that is 4 scales short of tier 3. Wants to take the deal.

Can Player Z make that deal? Is Player X in the wrong to offer to buy the loot, if it's that valuable? If Player Y had a shot at the deal and chose not to take it, is it wrong that Player Z finds the scales more valuable than the Shard?

What are your thoughts on this?

[eonfreon]

That's what "putting it up for a roll" means. "Anyone who NEEDS this item, roll for it"

Not exactly. You can allow random chance govern or you can assign it to whom you want to.

I do prefer assigning it. I will ask who wants it. Based on those who want it, I will then determine whom I wish to give it to or if I rather just let chance determine.

i once offered up a Tumbleweed, asking who wanted it. A few said they wanted it. One was a Monk, another a Rogue, a third a Fighter. I asked "for the Dex and + to hit?"
They all said yes and the Fighter added, "I already have one but I would like another in case mine breaks."
I told him no chance and explained that Raid loot is exempt from permanent damage.

I then let the Rogue and Monk roll on it.

As far as the OP's question, I vote "no" on all counts. It is not cool to roll on something and then offer it to others for a price.
Nor is it cool to roll on it and vendor it. In that case the original puller should sell it.

[D-molisher]

If you roll for loot, you better use it yourself, not auction it.
Since i could as well have vendored it, instead off hoping someone could use it.

This should be fun *takes a seat and grabs popcorn*

Oh pass the popcorn PLZ.

[Aaxeyu]

It's uncool. If someone puts an item up for roll he want only those who need the item to roll. This is ofcourse not a law of nature, but it's the norm.

[mws2970]

Oh pass the popcorn PLZ.

Shrplz! I want some too! Nom, nom, nom!

[DelScorcho]

Selling items in the chest is vulgar IMO anyway. I don't even put items for roll anymore. I ask if anyone needs, and the first one to say something gets it.