what good is symbol of death?

[selutha]

I just hit 15 and like usual I was jonesing for the new spells. Ran to the trainer and leveled my little cleric, ran to the tavern to slot...

Is it me or do most of the spells at level just suck? This might be my limited experience in the game so let me try to elaborate:

Holy Aura - better saves and deflection. Though nice it is very short lived. So another combat casting like Recitation ok not bad.

Cure Critical wounds Mass - cool another heal, but i rarely cast cure serious wounds. I don't raid that much and think I will see this spell used much more there. In teams for quests with empowered healing on serious wounds gets people full and I use burst/aura to top off the team or burst to heal spikes. It has worked so far...

Summon Monster VII - COOL love the air elemental another cc to control incoming damage. Could scroll it right?

Fire storm - tired it looks like a higher save flame strike and blade barrier seems work better for me.

Death Pact - this one looks very nice. If I go down, I get up. Costs me 2 con when I have it so my hp/fort saves are lower though.

Inflect critical wounds mass - this could be useful for healing spike damage to PM wizards. Wouldn't BB work better?

Symbol of death - O.k. I need some help here. What good is a spell that will drop any mob or mobs that don't have more than 150 COMBINED hit points. Did we not pass the 150 mark level 9 ish? its expensive to cast stays in the air once activated lasts 20 seconds and will kill anything with low hp when I am level 15. I am not seeing a use of this someone help me out. Thought about using it at the end of a line of spells laid as a trap. ex: ward a door way, flame strike the mobs in a room they get hit by the ward that i laid at the door way and drag any stragglers to the symbol of death... why not cast 2 bb?

Death ward mass - ok good use gives Death ward to everyone in area cool...


so useful spells : death ward mass/summon monster/death pact mass/cure critical wounds mass

everything is ok but nothing really amazing and no real decisions to make as I have more slots than useful spells.


All in all level 8 was kinda a let down... BUT... what good is Symbol of death with the inflated hp in ddo? PNP sure its nice and very powerful. DDO... as I am reading it. does anyone even slot this spell?

[donfilibuster]

Agreed lv VIII are kind of lackluster, on my fvs i'm limited to three so i went with cure crit (for raids), deathward (saves the slot for the single version) and summon badass monster VIII (for the cool-air elemental).

[RandomKeypress]

Don't disagree regarding Symbol of Death - there are a lot of spells like that that could do with revision.
Don't knock Holy Aura too quickly though - the buffs are nice, but you missed an important feature - it debuffs enemies with a blindness effect. Very handy - 50% miss chance and rogues can backstab even when they have agro. Give it a try and see what you think.

Oh, and if you find out a way to reliably scroll the lovely air elemental, please let me know. No-one sells lev 8 and 9 scrolls except the AH...

[Sarisa]

I've seen Symbol of Death used in one place in a high level quest, the bats in VoD. Even then, a powered up and heightened blade barrier combined with an arcane's Cloudkill works better.

Level 8 spells can be scrolled, but they are not buyable from NPC's. Summon 8 scrolls are available only in small quantities from drops. If you have the space, it's worth carrying the actual spell as long as your group is not dependent on Otto's Sphere of Dancing, clouds, or Wall of Fire (Since u8, Air Eles cast Gust of Wind WAY more than they used to, which blows these persistent spells away).

Definitely agree with Holy Aura. It's one of the best defensive spells you have. Casting it in the middle of a group of mobs will grant any rogue, dark monk, or Tharnes user sneak attack damage and give an essentially stacking displacement to everyone. One Holy Aura can end up saving 2-4 mass cures or heals per group. In a quest like Sins or Bastion, this can greatly help save you enough SP to make it to the shrines. The save bonus is just an added bonus to this real effect.

I occasionally alternate Cometfall and Firestorm with a Regalia of the Phoenix clickie active at times when I have to nuke down a boss that isn't harming the party. It's mana inefficient, but works for times when you don't have to save SP.

[phalaeo]

I occasionally alternate Cometfall and Firestorm with a Regalia of the Phoenix clickie active at times when I have to nuke down a boss that isn't harming the party. It's mana inefficient, but works for times when you don't have to save SP.

You know Cometfall is Bludgeon damage and not fire?
Just sayin'.

Also, Holy Aura = The Shiz. The saves bonus stacks, BTW (for the OP)

[selutha]

hmm, i will be trying holy aura very soon, I had no idea about the blinding. So does that mean I can drop... Recitation?


Really I think I was crying for a spell revamp. I wish the choices of what to carry were very difficult to make. Level 8 spells seems like a no brainer.

[Sarisa]

You know Cometfall is Bludgeon damage and not fire?
Just sayin'.

Yes, I know. Cometfall is the best damage to nuke with on times when I don't need to spend the SP elsewhere. Firestorm just gives me something to do during Cometfall cooldowns, and it's only remotely viable with a Regalia clickie active. Searing Light might be better but I can't find a spot for it.

As far as useless spells, Symbol of Death seems to be the worst. Spawn Screen isn't totally useless but not worth a spot. Word of Recall is at a tight spell level and would only be useful if the developers did something to the Temple of the Sovereign Host.

[sweez]

Try rolling a FvS and seeing how those spells "suck" and how easy of a choice it is Mass DW and Holy Aura (a pretty awesome spell, gives a stackable bonus to saves, makes you immune to a whole bunch of **** AND it blinds evil mobs) are pretty much a must, and Death Pact is almost a must as well. More mass cures are always nice to have for those lousy Shroud pugs where you're playing button muncher 2000.

Symbol of Death is useless tho.

[xiankai]

Holy Aura - Once you start blinding enemies, you will never go back. It is a no-save AoE spell that is quite an underrated CC, especially in epics.

Cure Critical wounds Mass - As a cleric, this spell is pretty much fixed for you. No sense debating it.

Summon Monster VIII - You can't buy level 8 scrolls from vendors.

Fire storm - Pretty much a mana-waster for fun.

Death Pact - Currently bugged on traps, but what is 20hp and 1 fort save to saving a party wipe?

Inflict critical wounds mass - As with all inflict wound spells, generally useless.

Symbol of death - Have to agree with you on this. What were they thinking when they made this spell?

Death ward mass - Quite essential to ward off neg levels. Any mass buffs are a real SP saver.




IMHO Essential list: Holy Aura/Death Ward Mass/Death Pact, followed by Cure Crit Mass/Summon Monster VIII.

Favoured souls are probably the ones that have a semi-hard time picking from the list.

[Bogenbroom]

Symbol of death, like a number of arcane spells, suffers from a literal translation from PnP, while our enemies do not. Meaning these spells are not scaled in the same way enemies are.

[Mellkor]

Symbol of Death is possibly THE most useless divine spell! Any other nominees?

[selutha]

Symbol of Death is possibly THE most useless divine spell! Any other nominees?

Inflect light wounds - just swing one time? Hp of mobs are way too inflated for this to be useful and too low to be efficient to heal pm.

Close wounds - expensive, fast cast, low healing could just alternate between cure mod and cure light for more healing.


All in all my vote is close wounds.

[chrisgina39]

i find it great but it hard to find low lvl clerics that have it:P

[Brennie]

Symbol of Death is possibly THE most useless divine spell! Any other nominees?

In alphabetical order:

Bane - Whoopedee do, some enemies have -1 to hit now. And they'll all be dead in 10 seconds anyway.

Bear's Endurance, Mass - By the time you can cast this, just about everyone should have a +4 or better Con item anyway.

Blindness - If there is an enemy that is a big enough threat that you want to cast a single-target only blindness spell on it, chances are it's immune.

Bull's Strength, Mass - By the time you can cast it, anyone that cares about strength probably aready has a +4 or better item.

Cause Fear - A front runner for uselessness. Single target, won't work on bosses, and the best part is anything over 6HD is flat out immune. Classic.

Close Wounds - I cannot think of a single situation where quick-spamming a low-healing spell would be preferable to simply cycling different levels of cure spells. Cure Light Wounds is a superior spell in all aspects.

Contagion - Short range, single target, barely discernible initial effect, with secondary effect damage only happening 60 seconds after initially cast. Have you ever seen a non-boss mob last 60 seconds? I haven't. The best part is the sub-menu that give you disease choices, usually confusing you enough to let your target get out of that very short range before you can pop off the spell.

Create Undead - Its like a summon (and we all know how useful those are), except it gets to try to turn against you every 15 seconds AND it requires its own, unique, slot-filling expensive material component. This, i think, is the trifecta of uselessness for Cleric spells (Useless, potential harmful to its caster, AND expensive!). This is my top nominee.

Deific Vengeance - Small amount of good damage. And since no cleric in the history of ever has specced for "Good" damage (And there no such thing as "Good" lore items), it will never do anything more than pitiful damage.

Doom - -2 to saves and attacks, while not shabby, simply doesn't bring enough to the table to make it worth a spell slot. Also note, it is a fear effect and thus more easily resisted by enemies (And bosses, as always, seem to be immune).

Eagles Splendor, Mass - Like the other mass stat buffs, anyone who cares about Charisma will have a +4 of better item by the level you can cast this.

Find Traps - *Maybe* if you're some kind of rogue splashed cleric who somehow manages to keep their trap skills maxed out, this coudl give you a great boost to your search checks. But in all likelyhood, at it will do is give you a moderate boost to your Search check (Which won't matter at all, since you can't disable anything without a rogue anyway!)

Glyph of Warding/Greater Glyph of Warding - Slow cast, tiny damage, not worth slotting.

Harm - One of the most overpowered spells from 3.0 PnP D&D is one of DDOs least powerful. Single target, very small range, and does "up to 150 points of damage". So does 3 rapid hits from a barbarian, in just about the same time frame, without costing any spellpoints.

Inflict X Wounds - Low range, extraordinarily low damage. Useful for pale masters and their pets, but that's about it.

Nimbus of Light - You'd do more damage with an Ember Heavy Mace.

Obscuring Mist - 20% miss chance is nothing to sneeze at. However, it works for the enemies too. Better, actually, as they don't end up bumbling around, completely blind, trying to figure out where the enemy lightning bolts are originating from.

Owl's Wisdom, Mass - I think you get the picture by now.

Poison - All the same problems as contagion, save the pop-up submenu. Short range, barely noticeable effects, doesn't work on anything that would survive long enough to matter.

Seek Eternal Rest - Most clerics can't turn worth a darn passed the harbor anyway, even with a +4 bonus. There are notable exceptions (I actually have a friend who is a double cleric TR who gets 4x the killcount as a well built/geared barbarian in Delaras), but in most cases this spell just doesn't cut the mustard.

Spawn Screen - A buff with such an utterly narrow focus that is hardly ever prepared. And even if it is, its only useful if someone dies.

Symbol of Death - As described, the hitpoint cap makes this useful for favor farming... and that's about it. Makes Haverdasher a breeze, though.

Symbol of Flame - Not enough damage to even remotely be worthwhile.

Undeath to Death - 9 HD cap makes this spells useless from the moment you get it.

Unholy Blight - Might be slightly useful for the one and only quest that has mutiple enemies that are good aligned. But all things considered, bladebarrier is still a better choice.

Word of Recall - Useful for turning in Relic of a Sovereign Past. Perhaps also for getting from the boonies to house D to broker some weapons too, i suppose. The biggest downside of this spell is that no one woudl ever have it on their spell list for any part of a quest, because it doesn't have any effect on the quest whatsoever.

Honorable mention to the other "Symbols", though some have some interesting strategic uses, as well as any cleric spell whos primary purpose is damage (with the exception of bladebarrier, of course).

[moops]

In alphabetical order:

Harm - One of the most overpowered spells from 3.0 PnP D&D is one of DDOs least powerful. Single target, very small range, and does "up to 150 points of damage". So does 3 rapid hits from a barbarian, in just about the same time frame, without costing any spellpoints.

My Harms hits for 370-800ish prob about 70% of time depending on what Im using it on--somethings I hit 100% of the time in that range, more with Eardweller. Ive seen 1100pt Harms.

TO OP : Many Cleric spells can be boosted with gear, For instance Im a pure offensive necro cleric and I can even boost my firestorms to hit for 300i+ as well as my cometfalls without eardweller--higher if I run content that is a bit lower than my level, or with certain mobs etc.. I also took full line of Light/good damage and have some nice Searing lights to alt with Harm. However, yes this costs alot in Action points, but I am not an RS cleric as I don't need to be for the crowd that I run with. And in many of our raids one Divine will heal, and the other will use all their SP for DPS spells if they are set up for it, or melee. The great thing about being a cleric is that you can try all these things out as you get more gear for them. This is why I prefer my Cleric to my FVS.

Blade Barrier is of course awesome, but if you solo alot, you'll find that not all bosses move--or take forever to get to move----as well as one can take down bosses quicker if one throws a ton of DPS at them.

I also think that a thing to remember with some of these spells is that not everyone plays the same way--ie DPS and kill as fast as possible. Many roleplayers in the game do use things like Doom and contagion, etc, because it fits their storyline.

[EKKM]

I appreciate your thoughts and agree with most, but just a few comments in green - edit - just noticed the red, white and green fonts are kind of festive.

In alphabetical order:

Bane - Whoopedee do, some enemies have -1 to hit now. And they'll all be dead in 10 seconds anyway.

Bear's Endurance, Mass - By the time you can cast this, just about everyone should have a +4 or better Con item anyway.As noted, usefull for buffing puppies, also good as a noob check at higher levels

Blindness - If there is an enemy that is a big enough threat that you want to cast a single-target only blindness spell on it, chances are it's immune.At level there are a few orange named that this is useful on, the other than those 2-4 levels, I agree.

Bull's Strength, Mass - By the time you can cast it, anyone that cares about strength probably aready has a +4 or better item.Puppies

Cause Fear - A front runner for uselessness. Single target, won't work on bosses, and the best part is anything over 6HD is flat out immune. Classic.

Close Wounds - I cannot think of a single situation where quick-spamming a low-healing spell would be preferable to simply cycling different levels of cure spells. Cure Light Wounds is a superior spell in all aspects.

Contagion - Short range, single target, barely discernible initial effect, with secondary effect damage only happening 60 seconds after initially cast. Have you ever seen a non-boss mob last 60 seconds? I haven't. The best part is the sub-menu that give you disease choices, usually confusing you enough to let your target get out of that very short range before you can pop off the spell.

Create Undead - Its like a summon (and we all know how useful those are), except it gets to try to turn against you every 15 seconds AND it requires its own, unique, slot-filling expensive material component. This, i think, is the trifecta of uselessness for Cleric spells (Useless, potential harmful to its caster, AND expensive!). This is my top nominee.

Deific Vengeance - Small amount of good damage. And since no cleric in the history of ever has specced for "Good" damage (And there no such thing as "Good" lore items), it will never do anything more than pitiful damage.I like it in its level range for clerics with no strength, take some enhancements and with a potency item it isnt useless

Doom - -2 to saves and attacks, while not shabby, simply doesn't bring enough to the table to make it worth a spell slot. Also note, it is a fear effect and thus more easily resisted by enemies (And bosses, as always, seem to be immune).

Eagles Splendor, Mass - Like the other mass stat buffs, anyone who cares about Charisma will have a +4 of better item by the level you can cast this.

Find Traps - *Maybe* if you're some kind of rogue splashed cleric who somehow manages to keep their trap skills maxed out, this coudl give you a great boost to your search checks. But in all likelyhood, at it will do is give you a moderate boost to your Search check (Which won't matter at all, since you can't disable anything without a rogue anyway!)As you noted, only few builds will use this but it usually essential to those builds

Glyph of Warding/Greater Glyph of Warding - Slow cast, tiny damage, not worth slotting.

Harm - One of the most overpowered spells from 3.0 PnP D&D is one of DDOs least powerful. Single target, very small range, and does "up to 150 points of damage". So does 3 rapid hits from a barbarian, in just about the same time frame, without costing any spellpoints.Useful for high reflex opponents when doing explorers, smack them with harm, than a low level inflict to kill them.

Inflict X Wounds - Low range, extraordinarily low damage. Useful for pale masters and their pets, but that's about it.As above, use after harm

Nimbus of Light - You'd do more damage with an Ember Heavy Mace.

Obscuring Mist - 20% miss chance is nothing to sneeze at. However, it works for the enemies too. Better, actually, as they don't end up bumbling around, completely blind, trying to figure out where the enemy lightning bolts are originating from.

Owl's Wisdom, Mass - I think you get the picture by now.

Poison - All the same problems as contagion, save the pop-up submenu. Short range, barely noticeable effects, doesn't work on anything that would survive long enough to matter.

Seek Eternal Rest - Most clerics can't turn worth a darn passed the harbor anyway, even with a +4 bonus. There are notable exceptions (I actually have a friend who is a double cleric TR who gets 4x the killcount as a well built/geared barbarian in Delaras), but in most cases this spell just doesn't cut the mustard.With more clerics including CBHR in thier builds, the usefullness of turning has been extended a few levels, good in its level range and much farther for those builds that incorporate turing to level 12-14.

Spawn Screen - A buff with such an utterly narrow focus that is hardly ever prepared. And even if it is, its only useful if someone dies.

Symbol of Death - As described, the hitpoint cap makes this useful for favor farming... and that's about it. Makes Haverdasher a breeze, though.This spells pwns kobald assault

Symbol of Flame - Not enough damage to even remotely be worthwhile.

Undeath to Death - 9 HD cap makes this spells useless from the moment you get it.

Unholy Blight - Might be slightly useful for the one and only quest that has mutiple enemies that are good aligned. But all things considered, bladebarrier is still a better choice.

Word of Recall - Useful for turning in Relic of a Sovereign Past. Perhaps also for getting from the boonies to house D to broker some weapons too, i suppose. The biggest downside of this spell is that no one woudl ever have it on their spell list for any part of a quest, because it doesn't have any effect on the quest whatsoever.

Honorable mention to the other "Symbols", though some have some interesting strategic uses, as well as any cleric spell whos primary purpose is damage (with the exception of bladebarrier, of course). Stunning, persuasion and even pain are useful

[erikbozelie]

I just hit 15 and like usual I was jonesing for the new spells. Ran to the trainer and leveled my little cleric, ran to the tavern to slot...

Is it me or do most of the spells at level just suck? This might be my limited experience in the game so let me try to elaborate:

Holy Aura - better saves and deflection. Though nice it is very short lived. So another combat casting like Recitation ok not bad.
The nicest buff there is for alot of save situations, it doesnt gives an resistance bonus to saves atm, but something else, stacking with Greater heroism, resistance, and recitation. nice to get an roque through epic traps.

Cure Critical wounds Mass - cool another heal, but i rarely cast cure serious wounds. I don't raid that much and think I will see this spell used much more there. In teams for quests with empowered healing on serious wounds gets people full and I use burst/aura to top off the team or burst to heal spikes. It has worked so far...

agreed, spell points using healers be damned! (fvs), who needs sp anyway?

Summon Monster VII - COOL love the air elemental another cc to control incoming damage. Could scroll it right?
air elemental is 8, not 7... scroll level 8th's are hard to come by, and this guy works like an charm, even in shaverath / hard to kill monsters.. even knocks down bosses.

Fire storm - tired it looks like a higher save flame strike and blade barrier seems work better for me.
heighten, besides.. you cant make an reaver omelet without raining some holy fire. (unlimited sp in reavers fate.)


Death Pact - this one looks very nice. If I go down, I get up. Costs me 2 con when I have it so my hp/fort saves are lower though.

immortality!. who needs hp if you can rez yourself... btw.. one full life isnot better then 2 abit lesser live.. use when there is no one to raise you. 90% of the idiots fall into this category.

Inflect critical wounds mass - this could be useful for healing spike damage to PM wizards. Wouldn't BB work better?

inflict rulez!. only usable in an 11 pale master group / 1 cleric(you). otherwise dont take it.

Symbol of death - O.k. I need some help here. What good is a spell that will drop any mob or mobs that don't have more than 150 COMBINED hit points. Did we not pass the 150 mark level 9 ish? its expensive to cast stays in the air once activated lasts 20 seconds and will kill anything with low hp when I am level 15. I am not seeing a use of this someone help me out. Thought about using it at the end of a line of spells laid as a trap. ex: ward a door way, flame strike the mobs in a room they get hit by the ward that i laid at the door way and drag any stragglers to the symbol of death... why not cast 2 bb?

ABONDEN SHIP!. this spell sucks harder then an over clocked Dixon's vacuum cleaner on drugs.

Death ward mass - ok good use gives Death ward to everyone in area cool...


so useful spells : death ward mass/summon monster/death pact mass/cure critical wounds mass

everything is ok but nothing really amazing and no real decisions to make as I have more slots than useful spells.


All in all level 8 was kinda a let down... BUT... what good is Symbol of death with the inflated hp in ddo? PNP sure its nice and very powerful. DDO... as I am reading it. does anyone even slot this spell?

doubt it, i sometimes rarely use symbol of persuasion to charm monsters.

in it as blue