Greater bane vs Greensteel

[stazer]

+3 Ice burst, axiomatic greataxe of Greater Dragon Bane

or

Min 2 Greataxe...


or Lit 2 Great axe.


against epic velah?

[ConnorMacLoad]

min II is not even close. I think the LitII and the mutt mix are probably pretty close. with the kit on it though, it might pull ahead.

[QuantumFX]

Since we’re dealing with similar weapon types (Only base damage is different) we can keep this simple. No need to factor in STR bonuses, class bonuses, seeker, etc. because we can assume they will scale the same with both weapons.

Edit: Answered my own question on the bane stacking last night. The +4 gets added to base damage and to hit. Also edited Risian Special to factor in Fire Shield/Ice Vulnerability combo.


Risian Special:
To Hit: (+7) +3 Base, +4 Bane
Damage: (34.5) 13.5 (1d12+7 Base*), +3.5 (1d6 Frost), +7 (2d6 Axiomatic), +10.5 (3d6 Greater Bane)
Crits: (71.5) 40.5 (1d12+7*3 Base*), +3.5 (1d6 Frost), +10 (2d10 Icy Burst), +7 (2d6 Axiomatic), +10.5 (3d6 Greater Bane)
Vorpal: (71.5) 40.5 (1d12+7*3 Base*), +3.5 (1d6 Frost), +10 (2d10 Icy Burst), +7 (2d6 Axiomatic), +10.5 (3d6 Greater Bane)

Average over 20 swings (1 swing = miss; 17 swings = Damage, 1 swing = Crit, 1 swing = Vorpal)
(729.5) 0+586.5+71.5+71.5

Supreme Commander Greensteel Greataxe of Lightning II (Holy, Shocking Burst, Shocking Blast)

To Hit: (+5) +5 Base
Damage: (32 [38*]) 15.5 (3d6+5 Base), +7 (2d6 Holy), +3.5 (1d6 Shock), +6 [+12*] (Lightning Bolt*)
Crits: (83 [89*]) 46.5 (3d6+5*3 Base), +7 (2d6 Holy), +3.5 (1d6 Shock), +10 (2d10 Shocking Burst), +10 (2d10 Shocking Blast), +6 [+12*] (Lightning Bolt*)
Vorpal: (97 [103*]) 46.5 (3d6+5*3 Base), +7 (2d6 Holy), +3.5 (1d6 Shock), +10 (2d10 Shocking Burst), +10 (2d10 Shocking Blast), +14 (4d6 Shocking Blast), +6 [+12*] (Lightning Bolt*)

Average over 20 swings (1 swing = miss; 17 swings = Damage, 1 swing = Crit, 1 swing = Vorpal)
(724) 0+544+83+97
(838*) 0+646**+89+103

* Depending on who you talk to Lightning procs 1-2%. Personally, I’m in the 1% camp. But, for comparison’s sake I’m including a 2% average proc rate.


There *may* be other factors that come onto play. DDOwiki doesn’t have DR and Fortification information.

[Glenalth]

There's even an easier way to figure this one out...

Vs Epic Velah (I believe regular Velah has frost vulnerability so that will play out a little differently)

Assuming the format of Holy + Burst + Blast and Improved Critical:
Each have a burst that affects her the same, cancel Icy, acid, and Shocking Burst as factors. Each have an alignment effect that affect her the same, cancel Holy and Axiomatic as a factor. Each has a threat range that is the same, cancel that out as a factor.

That leaves us with...

Risian
13.5 base (1d12+7)
10.5 per hit (bane damage)

vs

Lit II
15.5 base (3d6+5)
~12 per hit (lightning strike)
1.89 per hit (blast crit and vorp)

vs

Min II
15.5 base (3d6+5)
2.5 per hit (slicing)
1.89 per hit (blast crit and vorp)


The Lightning II is higher before you even start to consider the extra on-crit and vorp effects.

[QuantumFX]

Only problem with that is icy gets double damage. (While you can cancel out the Icy burst crit vs. Shocking Acid Burst + Blast crit the basic damage for frost is double.)

[Glenalth]

Only problem with that is icy gets double damage.

I thought that too until I built a fancy +4 Axiomatic Burst, Icy Burst, Greater Dragon Bane Greataxe. Lots of numbers, but all red numbers.

[sirgog]

Only problem with that is icy gets double damage. (While you can cancel out the Icy burst crit vs. Shocking Acid Burst + Blast crit the basic damage for frost is double.)

Not on Epic it doesn't.

[TheDearLeader]

Only problem with that is icy gets double damage. (While you can cancel out the Icy burst crit vs. Shocking Acid Burst + Blast crit the basic damage for frost is double.)

I thought that too until I built a fancy +4 Axiomatic Burst, Icy Burst, Greater Dragon Bane Greataxe. Lots of numbers, but all red numbers.

I concur with Glenalth's statement.

I've used melees with Icy Burst weapons, and I've played arcanes with Polar Ray. Velah, N/H/Elite/Epic, has never shown a vulnerability. No purple numbers, nor was damage any higher than I should expect for my various damage types.

The only time I *have* seen purple numbers for cold on Velah was if a monk cursed her for cold damage.

This could be due to two factors:
Velah has no Cold Vulnerability
Velah has Cold Vulnerability, but also has a constant, persistent effect, the ability of which exactly counteracts said vulnerability. (such as Double-Damage Vulnerability, but damage halved by a persistent Fire Shield).

Seems like the Lit II would win.

[QuantumFX]

Not on Epic it doesn't.

Got something to back that up? (Not that I don't think it's possible it's just the 2 purple numbers my khopesh says different.)

Edit:

The only time I *have* seen purple numbers for cold on Velah was if a monk cursed her for cold damage.

Now that could be what I saw.

[TheDearLeader]

Got something to back that up? (Not that I don't think it's possible it's just the 2 purple numbers my khopesh says different.)

As stated above, very possible you have monks cursing her for cold.

[QuantumFX]

As stated above, very possible you have monks cursing her for cold.

Stop that! (Responded to the "ninja" post above. )

[TheDearLeader]

Stop that! (Responded to the "ninja" post above. )

I also throw stars, and occasionally flip out.

[ChaosEmperorDragon]

Epic dragon has no DR?

[sirgog]

Epic dragon has no DR?

Correct.

The only DR that would make sense from a pen and paper perspective would be DR 10-15/epic, but she doesn't have that.

[TheDearLeader]

Epic dragon has no DR?

Correct.

The only DR that would make sense from a pen and paper perspective would be DR 10-15/epic, but she doesn't have that.

I can second this. To test, I used a level 20 Fighter, and a Falchion. Not even Masterwork, no metal types. Bought it from Harbor. Base damage numbers were completely regular. A level 1 Barb has more DR.

[Kinerd]

Each has a threat range that is the same, cancel that out as a factor.

I think this statement might be misleading to some, so if you will permit me to expound a bit:

If you have a different base damage, critical hits won't cancel. The lit II's 15.5 will generate 2 * 3 * 15.5 = 93 damage on critical hits while the Risia special's 13.5 will generate 2 * 3 * 13.5 = 81, for a total difference of 12 over the two rolls. On any non-crit roll the difference is only 2, so the difference due to base damage is (17 * 2 + 2 * 6) / 19 = 2 * 23 / 19, rather than the 2 that comparing only base damage would suggest.

[TheDearLeader]

I think this statement might be misleading to some, so if you will permit me to expound a bit:

If you have a different base damage, critical hits won't cancel. The lit II's 15.5 will generate 2 * 3 * 15.5 = 93 damage on critical hits while the Risia special's 13.5 will generate 2 * 3 * 13.5 = 81, for a total difference of 12 over the two rolls. On any non-crit roll the difference is only 2, so the difference due to base damage is (17 * 2 + 2 * 6) / 19 = 2 * 23 / 19, rather than the 2 that comparing only base damage would suggest.

While true, this still favors the Lit II, doesn't it? So the basic point remains the same?

[Kinerd]

While true, this still favors the Lit II, doesn't it? So the basic point remains the same?

Oh yes, certainly. I was expounding, not disagreeing.

[Glenalth]

I think this statement might be misleading to some, so if you will permit me to expound a bit:

If you have a different base damage, critical hits won't cancel. The lit II's 15.5 will generate 2 * 3 * 15.5 = 93 damage on critical hits while the Risia special's 13.5 will generate 2 * 3 * 13.5 = 81, for a total difference of 12 over the two rolls. On any non-crit roll the difference is only 2, so the difference due to base damage is (17 * 2 + 2 * 6) / 19 = 2 * 23 / 19, rather than the 2 that comparing only base damage would suggest.

Didn't say to forget about the multiplier.

[QuantumFX]

I also throw stars, and occasionally flip out.

I was going for something more subtle about Winters Wrath. Anyway. Updated the numbers above. The Risian Special is better if you’re pessimistic about the lightning proc rate. If you’re an optimist with a decent to hit go for the Lightning II.