Black Lotus - Unarmed Assassin

[jandhaer]

Yay thread necro :P

With the changes coming in U11 it seems that Helf is clearly the top choice now for a build like this, with changes to damage boost etc, what are your thoughts on any changes you would make now that you have played a "Dark Lotus" for quite a few months?

[wiglin]

Yay thread necro :P

With the changes coming in U11 it seems that Helf is clearly the top choice now for a build like this, with changes to damage boost etc, what are your thoughts on any changes you would make now that you have played a "Dark Lotus" for quite a few months?

I would actually go with human over half-elf. This build is feat starved and the extra feat and +10% healing amp is a pretty big bonus.

None of the h-elf dilettantes are really needed for this build. You already get umd and sneak attack. Wizard would be an ok dilettante since it would let you get an extra point of intelligence. The monk dilettante would also allow for more healing amp then human, but I think I would rather have the extra feat from being human.

[jandhaer]

I was actually thinking Helf Monk Dilly for the extra 20% healing amp (unless I absolutely needed 1 more feat) ,although would have to squeeze in 13 wisdom, which shouldn't be too hard on a multi TR'ed toon. Decisions, decisions, will probably just end up busting out the character planner on this one

[wiglin]

I was actually thinking Helf Monk Dilly for the extra 20% healing amp (unless I absolutely needed 1 more feat) ,although would have to squeeze in 13 wisdom, which shouldn't be too hard on a multi TR'ed toon. Decisions, decisions, will probably just end up busting out the character planner on this one

The monk dilly is only adds 10% more than what humans already get and you get the extra feat. I would choose human for this one, if anything being able to grab another toughness. The new update will require even more hitpoints with the new raid and mobs in the older content getting a buff.

[Stillwaters]

Edited Kickpuncher for U11 goodness:

KickPuncher - dark lotus variant assassin - variant by STILLWATERS

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Kickpuncher Dps King
Level 20 Lawful Neutral Half-Elf Male
(1 Monk \ 19 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 244
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 16
Will: 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             14                    23
Dexterity            15                    17
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         14                    16
Wisdom               14                    16
Charisma              8                    10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                    28
Bluff                 3                    31
Concentration         2                     9
Diplomacy            -1                     2
Disable Device        6                    30
Haggle               -1                     2
Heal                  2                     5
Hide                  6                    36
Intimidate           -1                     2
Jump                  5                    11
Listen                2                     5
Move Silently         6                    36
Open Lock             6                    28
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair                2                     5
Search                6                    28
Spot                  6                    28
Swim                  2                     8
Tumble                3                    28
Use Magic Device      3                    25

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Bluff (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Fighter
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I


Level 2 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Improved Hide I
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I


Level 3 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Human Versatility II


Level 5 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II


Level 6 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Improved Hide II
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II


Level 7 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Half-Elf Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III


Level 9 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Half-Elf Fighter Strength I


Level 10 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III


Level 11 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV


Level 13 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Half-Elf Strategy (Stunning Blow) II
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II


Level 14 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
Enhancement: Human Versatility III


Level 15 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV


Level 17 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV


Level 18 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Wrack Construct I
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device I


Level 19 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III
Enhancement: Rogue Wrack Construct II
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device II


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+0.5)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery
Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost II

@ Cap trade your stunning blow feat for improved sunder (stacking fort reducer) and the 3 enhancement points into improved sunder

Enhancement Breakdown at 20
Rogue Damage Boost II
Rogue Extra Action Boost II
Rogue Haste Boost IV
Helf Strategy Stunning Blow II (or Sunder II)
Human Strength I
Human Imp recovery I
Human Versatility IV (for haste/damage boost goodness or insane DC traps)
Subtle Backstab I
Racial Toughness II
Rogue Assassin III (for vorpal fists!)
Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV
Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Rogue Wrack Construct II (stacking fort reducer for constructs)
Improved Disable Device II
Improved Hide II
Improved Move silently II
Helf Fighter Strength I
Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery (for hjeels)

Gear: I'll leave up to other gurus but it IS essential to grab a set of air 3 wraps from Master Artificer raid!

Remember the above build is UNGEARED so PLEASE dont disrespect its HP. 439 is achievable with standard hp gear, pre-buffs/pots
(I have made this build on 4 worlds now and it rocks!)

[wax_on_wax_off]

...Snip...

I'm sure we've discussed it at some stage but I'd make the 2 following adjustments:

1. Dump intelligence to 10 to boost up strength to 16 (too spread out otherwise, imo).
2. Take a second monk level (+1 feat: stunning blow AND improved sunder, +1 wisdom (for stunning fist)).

I love that this build will finally get the extra damage on vorpal strikes against enemies that are over 1000 HP. That is, for me, what was needed to make this build better than a 10 rogue / 9 monk / 1 ranger or 13 rogue / 7 monk sort of build.

I wonder how quickly you can hit the assassinate - sunder - stunning fist - stunning blow chain and what trash mobs wouldn't be incapped or dead by the end of it

[Dark-Star]

One cannot assasinate with hand wraps .

[Stillwaters]

One cannot assasinate with hand wraps .

Yeah i noticed that while levelling, who knows maybe it will get changed..but...
Hotswitch a +6 INT staff to both raise assassinate dc and gain reach.

and @ WAX raising the STR by +1 mod (stunblow/sunder DC) to lose 2 maxd skills and 2 assassinate DC is imho a bit weak... But is a valid variant too - a touch more DPS for loss on trapskills, and instakill ability.

as for 2 monk vs 19 rogue no sense throwing the baby out with the bathwater, you trade avg 3.5 sneak damage that way. All for +1 saves (meh) +1 ac (useless at cap) and 1 feat (it might be worth it, but depends on what feat)

Guess we wont ever see eye-to-eye on this one i like my skills and SA too much

And dbl stuns and dble bluffs for SA goodness is just awesome, adding in fort reducers as well is priceless

[Feralthyrtiaq]

Pre-U11 you were able to assassinate with Cannith Crafted HW but not with Named or Random Loot-Gen HW.

Not sure about post-U11, I TRd my Horc UA Assassin "Returning" into a Helf Arti with 2 Rogue PL, Rogue Dilletante, RXBOW, and DM of Storm Build

He also happened to be my main crafter

so

/shrug

HW bugs really made this awesome build lackluster.

Also, GD F-N Pi$$ Poor Drop Rates on Base-Metal DR Breaking Handwraps from DA.

/facepalm

[Inferno346]

I know it is out of date, but this graph is really bugging me. How the heck does rogue20 have more 100 fort dps than barb20 twitch and fighter20 twitch??

[Kinerd]

I know it is out of date, but this graph is really bugging me. How the heck does rogue20 have more 100 fort dps than barb20 twitch and fighter20 twitch??

Twitching is a very poor attack style under certain conditions. It's also worth pointing out that the spreadsheet initially treated Opportunist as granting sneak attacks against 100 fort. This regrettably turned out not to be the case, much to the surprise of the devs nearly a year later (sigh).

[wax_on_wax_off]

and @ WAX raising the STR by +1 mod (stunblow/sunder DC) to lose 2 maxd skills and 2 assassinate DC is imho a bit weak... But is a valid variant too - a touch more DPS for loss on trapskills, and instakill ability.

as for 2 monk vs 19 rogue no sense throwing the baby out with the bathwater, you trade avg 3.5 sneak damage that way. All for +1 saves (meh) +1 ac (useless at cap) and 1 feat (it might be worth it, but depends on what feat)

Guess we wont ever see eye-to-eye on this one i like my skills and SA too much

And dbl stuns and dble bluffs for SA goodness is just awesome, adding in fort reducers as well is priceless

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have my cake and eat it too it is just that I feel like things are too spread out on this build. With 14 starting strength you'll come up against some AB issues against high AC epic foes and 14 base int on a splashed assassin is never going to see truly useful DCs in epics.

More skill points are always good but they can be done without with a little effort.

The extra monk levels lets the build take stunning blow (which you swap out at cap) and monk wisdom I which probably sees a DC boost on stunning fist of 3 (2 for fighter enhancements, 0.5 for monk wisdom but can be combined with adaptability: wisdom if needed).

On a completionist build with +4 tomes it'd be totally fine and result in a brutal build but with limited resources I'd tend to think that a little more specialisation is needed than currently exists (dumping wisdom is possibly another option on a more epicly minded version that wants better assassinate DCs if you want to swing the other way but then pure is probably better).