Black Lotus - Unarmed Assassin

[Feralthyrtiaq]

Just TRd "Returning" my 12/TA, 8Shintao1 into a Horc Black Lotus Build. At 1Rgu/1Mnk atm. Have no fancy theorycrafting, yugo pots or litany that many of these builds include. You can myddo me if interested in the build. A lil scary (lol) building a rogue for Str but should be a power house. Having a BtA ML2 Robe of Invulnerability (DR5/magic) REALLY helps mitigate low level mob damage. I TRd my Dark monk Xhiron to a Shintao3, Void4 build and he wore it up to lvl 8 when I switched to Lightening Guard of Invulnerabilty. At level 9 started using Kaelth's Touch from necro 3 Scarab Powder Turn and Mod Fort robe until I could work in Hvy Fort item/robe and then ultimately Garments of Equilibrium. It may be a bit off topic but just the value of DR5/magic (or w/e) can't be understated with unarmed and unarmored builds like these.

[Feralthyrtiaq]

Returning has 12 and 13 banked and 3k xp shy of 14 and having to take lvl 12. At 1 monk/10 Rogue Horc UA Assasin...

So far, this build is a monster in parties.

However for soloing

AC is very low considering 23 unbuffed +/- 1 depending on stance.

Up till now DR5/magic from Invulnerability + Stalwart Trinket Stoneskin Procs lend alot of early survivability.

At lvl 10 Using Stonedust HW + Earth Stance Plus Stalwart + DR5/magic is slightly better for damage mitigation.

Once stoneskin procs I swap out to Nimble Trinket and usually bounce back and forth (<3 Quick Draw) depending on situation.

With Earth Stance increase Damage Dice from Jidz Tetka Bracers + Stonedust HW + Stalwart and Rogue Haste Boost 2 + Self Buffed 30 sec Haste the burst DPS + Damage Mitigation IS kinda AWESOME.

Minor touch up healing with UMD cure mod wands or cure sr wounds potions every few fights.

The speed of the attack animation of Wind Stance + Rogue Haste + Haste is balls to the wall crazy. But pretty much this builds "death frenzy" and usual require substantial healing after battle.

Vampiric Stonedust HW at 13 and Garments of Equilibrium at 12 will help soloablility alot esp. with Stunning Blow at 12.

Switching to Fire Stance for +25% heal amp from Jidz Tetka to heal between fights helps on the cost of resources.

Maxed Ranks in Bluff, Diplo, Search, Spot, DD, UMD (MS, Hide and OL are a lil lower, 10 jump a lil tumble etc) + Sneak of shadows PL feat and AP in DD Search Spot Hide MS

No issues at all with any traps anywhere (RR WF +13 lvl 9 spot goggles help) in at level quests on elite.

Bluffing to single pull the Troll, Beholder and Sorc Lts in VON3 on elite is a thing of beauty.

[krogyy]

Returning has 12 and 13 banked and 3k xp shy of 14 and having to take lvl 12. At 1 monk/10 Rogue Horc UA Assasin...

So far, this build is a monster in parties.

However for soloing

AC is very low considering 23 unbuffed +/- 1 depending on stance.

Up till now DR5/magic from Invulnerability + Stalwart Trinket Stoneskin Procs lend alot of early survivability.

At lvl 10 Using Stonedust HW + Earth Stance Plus Stalwart + DR5/magic is slightly better for damage mitigation.

Once stoneskin procs I swap out to Nimble Trinket and usually bounce back and forth (<3 Quick Draw) depending on situation.

With Earth Stance increase Damage Dice from Jidz Tetka Bracers + Stonedust HW + Stalwart and Rogue Haste Boost 2 + Self Buffed 30 sec Haste the burst DPS + Damage Mitigation IS kinda AWESOME.

Minor touch up healing with UMD cure mod wands or cure sr wounds potions every few fights.

The speed of the attack animation of Wind Stance + Rogue Haste + Haste is balls to the wall crazy. But pretty much this builds "death frenzy" and usual require substantial healing after battle.

Vampiric Stonedust HW at 13 and Garments of Equilibrium at 12 will help soloablility alot esp. with Stunning Blow at 12.

Switching to Fire Stance for +25% heal amp from Jidz Tetka to heal between fights helps on the cost of resources.

Maxed Ranks in Bluff, Diplo, Search, Spot, DD, UMD (MS, Hide and OL are a lil lower, 10 jump a lil tumble etc) + Sneak of shadows PL feat and AP in DD Search Spot Hide MS

No issues at all with any traps anywhere (RR WF +13 lvl 9 spot goggles help) in at level quests on elite.

Bluffing to single pull the Troll, Beholder and Sorc Lts in VON3 on elite is a thing of beauty.

indeed the original build strong point is not in the soloing department. that said, adding the ability to stun as you are planning would help a lot.

with all the last changes to the game it would be time to TR mine. wish i had the time...

[Feralthyrtiaq]

Well...for anyone out there reading this or considering this type of flavor build here are a few of my observations.

Currently at level 15 with 16 banked and a couple ranks toward 17.

Starting to see survivability increase due to over-all dps increase. Only DR item I use situationally is Kaelth's Touch. AC can hit mid 30s easily which is **** but only rely on AC marginally for damage mitigation. Main damage mitigation tactics involve Sneak Postioning (to avoid sneak being broken by errant cleaves/arrows) for assasinates, mobs position relative to other party member positions, liberal use of bluff/diplo (maxed ranks in both).

**** Handwrap Bug makes them usefull only in the regard that I have them, "can" use them and take advantage of situations where I can use the special abilities. (+2 ghost touch of disruption, +4 ghost touch of PG, +4 force burst of maiming, +2 force of pure good, vampiric stonedusts, +1 flaming burst of stun +8, +2 weakening of greater ele bane)

I am not ideally geared by any means but due to decreased effectiveness of HW I pulled a few q-staves outta the TR cache. +5 Fest Icy, Met of PG, +5 Shock Burst of PG, Destructive Shadow Staff, +2 Crippling of Everbright and +2 Frost of Greater Construct Bane)

Mainly rocking a Crippling Fury Shortsword (gave its twin to another rogue I met "Silyne") with ML12 Tier 3 Cut-throats Smallblade in off hand.

Have some ok DR breakers that make use of the Imp Crit: Pierce I picked up at 15. +3 Holy Burst Silver Rapier, +5 Metalline Rapier of Righteousness and +5 Metalline Kama of Righteousness (which I dont use too much)

Main gear I have on most of the time! un-upgraded Sora Katra Set, Garments of Equilibrium, ML12 Treasure Hunters Spyglass, Tier 2 GS Goggles (will be 3x Neg when complete someday), +6 Int Goggles, +6 Con Belt of LFL, Jidz Tetka, Boots of Innocent, ML8 Ring of Buccanneer, Mantle of Wordshaper.

No Litany....no yugo pots...half-ass crafted GS...no BTC raid gear...no Dragontouched..no ToD Rings.

I have a ML 16 Treasure Hunters Spyglass sitting in bank woot!

Soloing on this character is better now with lvls and gear...Doesnt require nearly the $$ spent of healing items due to UMD getting higher but still have to constantly heal after battles.

I CAN GET MY ASS HANDED TO ME if I DONT WATCH IT!

Can use a very broad range of weaponry effectively which offests Handwrap BUG!!! ERGGGGGGG

However.....this build shines best with a strong party...It's uncanny...I've noticed that there is a somewhat exponential increase in dps I can put out as the party members skill/tactics/build/gear gets better...(I know, I know that's that case with most players and groups but have not noticed such a significant increase in quest success rate vs amount of work put into it on other characters I've leveled)

[krogyy]

added a DPS comparison using crafting weapons.

very interesting results indeed...

[Emizand]

added a DPS comparison using crafting weapons.

very interesting results indeed...

In what way?

[risinginferno]

So I wanted to make the Horc variant but no real outline of changes was posted that I saw (hope I'm not blind). How does this look for a horc approach?

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.09.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Drythe 
Level 20 Lawful Neutral Half-Orc Male
(1 Monk \ 19 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 214
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 10
Reflex: 16
Will: 7

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             18                 23                   25
Dexterity            15                 17                   17
Constitution         14                 14                   14
Intelligence         10                 12                   12
Wisdom                8                  8                    8
Charisma             10                 10                   10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               6                 26                   28
Bluff                 0                  0                    8
Concentration         2                  2                    4
Diplomacy             3                 23                   25
Disable Device        4                 24                   27
Haggle                0                  0                    2
Heal                 -1                 -1                    1
Hide                  2                  3                   13
Intimidate            0                  0                    2
Jump                  8                 30                   32
Listen               -1                 -1                    1
Move Silently         2                  3                   13
Open Lock             6                 26                   28
Perform               n/a               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                  1                    3
Search                4                 24                   26
Spot                  3                 22                   24
Swim                  4                  7                    9
Tumble                3                 11                   13
Use Magic Device      4                 23                   28

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Diplomacy (+3)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I


Level 2 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Improved Hide I
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I


Level 3 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 5 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Improved Hide II
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II


Level 6 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Quick Draw


Level 7 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+3)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III


Level 9 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III


Level 10 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+3)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Orcish Strength II


Level 11 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III


Level 13 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing III
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II


Level 14 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV


Level 15 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing IV


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV


Level 17 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery
Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack II


Level 18 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 19 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Orcish Extra Action Boost III
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack III
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device I

[krogyy]

In what way?

sorry for the late reply, been on a vacation last week...

for starters it shows that the difference between horc and halfling for this build at the high end becomes less and less. the difference is significant only vs 100% fort. Horc still has more haste boosts while halfling has significantly better to-hit vs sneak-vulnerable foes.

with respect to the comparison with pure rogues, it shows that a black lotus scales better as the gears power increase. note also that the dps numbers of the lotuses can be improved significantly as i didn't include claw nor abishai set boni. keep in mind also that the pure rogue also takes into account an epic marilith chain giving up evasion and misses on thoughness and the related enhanchements to reach those numbers.

with respect to the other builds it's interesting that pure fighter actually comes on top of the blitz vs all but 100% fort due to the better scaling that kensai III + captone overcoming the better baseline of the blitz.

then there are the oddities of monster and pure ranger. fiddling with the dps calculator it seems like tempest line adds way too much damage than it should. for example disabling tempest I on the monster drops the max dps to around 500 a drop difficult to justify only by a 10% less offhand procs (between 5-6% less attacks and the weaker ones also).

finally, THF builds looks at the same time better and worse than they should. better because a devil ruin may not be a reasonable assumption, worse because esos is not the optimal choice vs 100% fort while the crafted TWF weapons are optimal in all situations.

[krogyy]

So I wanted to make the Horc variant but no real outline of changes was posted that I saw (hope I'm not blind). How does this look for a horc approach?

yes i never came around adding the horc build and the halfling version seriously needs an updat also.

regarding your build, it seems fine but i think that horc may be more suited for a 34p (with a banked +3 dex tome) or 36p toon as not taking 20 starting str looks like a waste.
besides, the only change i would absolutely make is to take bluff rather than diplo. it is way more useful now than when i wrote the OP and i often wish i had it lately.

[Tinco]

besides, the only change i would absolutely make is to take bluff rather than diplo. it is way more useful now than when i wrote the OP and i often wish i had it lately.

I agree with bluff. Another thing is that Stunning Fist makes this build a ton more powerful even if you can only sport a mediocre DC. I'd switch SF:UMD out for it any day now. My gripe is that if you want to include PL:Rogue (powerful like hell with unarmed hasteboosts running) you basically have to go human or get rid of Quick Draw or do a deeper monk splash. In my TR I went with the latter since I don't value the vorpal that high anymore and 6 levels of monk give a great amount of utility and survivability (saves, shadow fade, speed, elemental curses, feats).

[fool101]

I was actually thinking of a build like this the other night. I wanted to incorporate a rogue life into my dark monk and feel this is a good way to go. I didn't want to go pure rogue since I will already have all the monk stuff. I was thinking of 18/2 for an extra feat but you make a good case for this. Glad I noticed it

[Calebro]

regarding your build, it seems fine but i think that horc may be more suited for a 34p (with a banked +3 dex tome) or 36p toon as not taking 20 starting str looks like a waste.

Looks can be deceiving.
Today is the first time I've seen this thread, but I have a h-orc version. 34 pt build, PL rogue.
Stats:
Str 17 +5 levels +2 horc +3 tome +6 item +3 exc +2 ship +2 stance +2 rage = 42 + madstone and other buffs
Dex 15 +2 tome +6 item +2 ship +1 variable* = 26
(*+1 variable from either a +3 tome I have in the bank, or from a +1 exc on a ToD ring if I get the one I want. Waiting to eat the tome, just in case.)
Con 14 +2 tome +6 item +2 exc +2 rage +2 ship = 28
Int 12 +2 tome +6 item +2 ship = 22 when trapping
Wis 14 +2 tome +6 item +2 ship -2 stance = 22 for stunning (And the extra AC helps tons while leveling. I used Wind Stance during this period.)
Cha 6 +2 tome + 6 item +2 ship = 16 for UMD

If you have a +3 Str tome:
Unless you have an Epic Abashai set, starting at an even Str leaves you at an odd Str. Ending at an odd Str is pointless, so start with an odd Str unless you have that set. Use the extra points for Wisdom and take Stunning Fist. The loss of +1 to-hit and +1 damage is well worth if for the extra DC on Stunning Fist, IMHO.

If you do not have a +3 Str tome, then an even starting Str is the way to go. But you can count on eventually getting one from 20th completion lists, 40th lists, etc. You cannot count on a +4, so assuming the build will get a +3, but not a +4, is the safe build route.

Feats on my build:
PL rogue
1 TWF
2m Toughness
3 Stunning Fist
6 Sneak of Shadows
9 ITWF
11r Opportunist
12 IC: B
14r Improved Evasion
15 PA
17r Skill Mastery
18 GTWF
20r Skill Mastery

[krogyy]

Looks can be deceiving.
Today is the first time I've seen this thread, but I have a h-orc version. 34 pt build, PL rogue.
Stats:
Str 17 +5 levels +2 horc +3 tome +6 item +3 exc +2 ship +2 stance +2 rage = 42 + madstone and other buffs
Dex 15 +2 tome +6 item +2 ship +1 variable* = 26
(*+1 variable from either a +3 tome I have in the bank, or from a +1 exc on a ToD ring if I get the one I want. Waiting to eat the tome, just in case.)
Con 14 +2 tome +6 item +2 exc +2 rage +2 ship = 28
Int 12 +2 tome +6 item +2 ship = 22 when trapping
Wis 14 +2 tome +6 item +2 ship -2 stance = 22 for stunning (And the extra AC helps tons while leveling. I used Wind Stance during this period.)
Cha 6 +2 tome + 6 item +2 ship = 16 for UMD

If you have a +3 Str tome:
Unless you have an Epic Abashai set, starting at an even Str leaves you at an odd Str. Ending at an odd Str is pointless, so start with an odd Str unless you have that set. Use the extra points for Wisdom and take Stunning Fist. The loss of +1 to-hit and +1 damage is well worth if for the extra DC on Stunning Fist, IMHO.

If you do not have a +3 Str tome, then an even starting Str is the way to go. But you can count on eventually getting one from 20th completion lists, 40th lists, etc. You cannot count on a +4, so assuming the build will get a +3, but not a +4, is the safe build route.

Feats on my build:
PL rogue
1 TWF
2m Toughness
3 Stunning Fist
6 Sneak of Shadows
9 ITWF
11r Opportunist
12 IC: B
14r Improved Evasion
15 PA
17r Skill Mastery
18 GTWF
20r Skill Mastery

perfectly valid choice. i don't usually count on +3 tomes but that's just me...
i was just a bit concerned about the to-hit especially on a first life horc with the extra PA penalty.

besides, when i rolled mine stunning fist was not a viable option, that is the reason i dumped wis in the original build. now i should LR to try it out and swith diplo to bluff. it's just that as a premium player i prefer to spend TPs on adventure packs...

[Calebro]

perfectly valid choice. i don't usually count on +3 tomes but that's just me...
i was just a bit concerned about the to-hit especially on a first life horc with the extra PA penalty.

besides, when i rolled mine stunning fist was not a viable option, that is the reason i dumped wis in the original build. now i should LR to try it out and swith diplo to bluff. it's just that as a premium player i prefer to spend TPs on adventure packs...

It was a valid choice then as well. You just had to use the monk feat on it.
And the to-hit penalty via h-orc PA enhancements are the exact reason that I chose SoS at 6 rather than PA, and waited on PA until 15.

[krogyy]

It was a valid choice then as well. You just had to use the monk feat on it.
And the to-hit penalty via h-orc PA enhancements are the exact reason that I chose SoS at 6 rather than PA, and waited on PA until 15.

stunning fist DC untill recently was tied to your monk class level not character level so it would have been 10 (or 11 if they round up) +10 from wraps + wis score +tactics (none in this case). with your stats at the time you would have got a DC of 26-27 not really usefull imho.

[Calebro]

stunning fist DC untill recently was tied to your monk class level not character level so it would have been 10 (or 11 if they round up) +10 from wraps + wis score +tactics (none in this case). with your stats at the time you would have got a DC of 26-27 not really usefull imho.

Ah, yes. I thought you were referring to the availability of the feat. I forgot that the functionality of the feat had changed.

[OldAquarian]

As per Horc and a little less rogue
I found that 1 fighter was better than a 2nd monk level:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=310861

[wiglin]

As per Horc and a little less rogue
I found that 1 fighter was better than a 2nd monk level:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=310861

Here is the breakdown for the additional class vs the 19th level of rogue.

*19Rogue
1d6 Sneak
+1 Assassinate DC
1 Rogue Special Feat

*1Fighter
+4HP's
1 Fighter Bonus Feat
+2 Fortitude Save
Fighter Tactics I (is using tactics feats)
Fighter Toughness I

*1Monk (2nd Monk Level)
+2HP's
1 Monk Bonus Feat
+1 Fortitude Save
+1 Reflex Save
+1 Will Save
Animal Path I
-Tortoise (+5HP's, +1 Concentration Skill)
-Hound (+2 Atk when flanking, +1 Listen Skill)
-Monkey (+2 Energy Resistance, +1 Saves vs Traps, +1 Haggle Skill)
Monk Wisdom I

*1Ranger
+4HP's
+2 Fortitude Save
+2 Will Save
1 Favored Enemy (Evil Outsider for better raid dmg)
+3 Dmg vs 1 Favored Enemy (1 Base + 2 Enhancements)
Ranger Sprint Boost (This is nice for assassinate)
Bow Strength (Could pull out a bow during EDQ)

If I needed an extra feat, I would choose monk or fighter, if the extra feat wasn't needed, then the 19th level of rogue for +1 assassinate dc.

[OldAquarian]

If I needed an extra feat, I would choose the second level of monk. If I did not need an extra feat, then the one level of ranger for sprint boost.

I agree with the breakdown, but not sure why you would prefer monk over fighter

[wiglin]

I agree with the breakdown, but not sure why you would prefer monk over fighter

Monks are only down 2 hitpoints from fighter (8 base vs 10 base), but they gain a better will save. It is really a wash monk or fighter for the extra feat, or ranger or rogue if no extra feat is needed. Gonna edit my post, since the more I think that is how it boils down, and really I would probably just keep the 19th rogue level if I didn't need the extra feat for +1 to assassinate dc.