Black Lotus - Unarmed Assassin

[krogyy]

So, here i am, posting my first build. This is the first toon of mine i leveled up to cap and i enjoyed quite a lot playing it. At a glance this build gives you:

• Awesome unarmed animation
• Assassin vorpal strikes at unarmed speed (Fatality!!!)
• More balanced DPS over different fortification levels with respect to a pure rogue
• Less feat starved than a pure rogue, can fit all offensive feats and some defensive ones
• No fail Heal scrolls without swapping items

Race: Halfling

Alignment: Lawful-Neutral

Class(s): Rogue 19 / Monk 1

Starting Stats: Str 16, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 10

Feats

• TWF
• iTWF
• gTWF
• Power Attack
• I.C: Bludg
• Thoughness
• S.F: UMD (I.C:Pierce)
• Quickdraw
• Improved Evasion
• Opportunist
• Skill Mastery (2x)

Choose I.C:Pierce if you plan to use rapiers effectively (for Rad II's, smiters, banishers or easily obtainable boss beaters).
The tradeoff is that you'll need either a +3 cha tome or swap items for no fail heal scrolls

Skills: Full ranks in UMD, DD, Search, Spot, Diplo and Balance. Rest divided between OL, Jump and Tumble.

Enanchments

Assassin III		8
- SA Accuracy IV	10
- SA Training IV	10
- Damage Boost II	3
- Improved Hide II	2
- Improved MS II	2
- Subtle Backstab I 	1
Subtle Backstab IV	9
Haste Boost IV		10
Extra AB II		6
Halfling Cunning III	6
Halfling Guile III	6
Thoughness II		3
Luck (Reflex) II	3
Skill Boost I		1
---------------------------
Tot			80

Equipment

• Helm - Minos Legend
• Cloak - Epic Cloack of Night
• Necklace & Ring #1 - Kensai set (Holy Burst)
• Belt & Ring #2 - FB set (Shocking Burst)
• Bracers - Rad II, 45 hp, +5 dex skills
• Trinket - Litany / Shimmering Arrowhead
• Armor - DT +5 res, +6 cha, Tharne's wrath
• Googles - Tharne's Googles
• Boots - Madstone / Con. Opp. +5 cha skills, blind immunity, disease immunity
• Gloves - Epic Brawling Gloves / Seven-fingered gloves

Modified Stats

• Str - 16 base + 5 lvl-up + 2 tome + 6 item + 1 litany + 1 exc + 2 rage spell + 2 madstone + 2 fire stance = 37
• Dex - 16 base + 2 tome + 4 item + 1 litany = 23
• Con - 14 base + 2 tome + 6 item + 1 exc + 1 litany = 24
• Int - 10 base + 2 tome + 1 litany = 13 (+6 swap in item for traps = 19)
• Wis - 8 base + 2 tome + 6 item + 1 litany - 2 fire stance = 15
• Cha - 10 base + 2 tome + 1 litany = 13

Hit Points

Rogue		114
Monk		8
Con		140
Heroic d.	20
Shroud Item	45
GFL		30
Thoughness	22
Enhancements	20
Favor		10
Minos		20
--------------------
Unbuffed	429

Rage		20
Madstone	40
-------------------- 
Self-buffed	489

Earth Stance	20
--------------------
Situational	509

Saves

Rogue		6	11	6
Monk		2	2	2
Resistance	5	5	5
Stats		7	6	2
Racial		1	1	1
Enhancements	0	2	0
Alchemical	1	1	1
-----------------------------------
Unbuffed	21	28	17

GH		4	4	4
Luck		2	2	2
Haste		0	1	0
Rage		1	0	0
Madstone	2	0	0
-----------------------------------
Self buffed	30	35	23

UMD

Ranks		23
Skill Focus	3
Exceptional	5
Skill Mastery	2
Charisma	4	
GH		4
-------------------
Self buffed	41

To-Hit

Base			15
Racial			1
Str			12
Weapon			5
Kensai set		2
Litany			1
Power Attack		-5
---------------------------
Aggroed & Unbuffed	31

Divine Power		5
Madstone		1
Rage			1
GH			4
Haste			1
---------------------------
Aggroed & Self buffed	43

Spectral gloves		2
SA Accuracy		4
Cunning			3
Tharne's Googles	5
---------------------------
Situational		57

Edit - Update 10.2: Now that metal threaded handwraps drop with reasonable frequency in DA elite/epic i though to add a DPS comparison using the best crafted weapons. For TWF it is +5 holy burst silver of GEOB, for un unarmed it is the same save for holy instead of holy burst. THF still uses ESOS with devil ruins augment crystal.



Edit: (old) Here's a DPS comparison chart comparing the Halfling version to the Horc one. All other builds are Horcs. Weapon used is +1 metalline of Greater bane. i also added the Epic Brawling Gloves's extra piercing damage. no seeker item whatsoever altough a +6 seeker event hat may be squeezed in.

[krogyy]

So, no opinions whatsoever so far. i take it as a testament that there are no obvious flaws

[Arlathen]

• Assassin vorpal strikes at unarmed speed (Fatality!!!)

SUB-ZERO WINS!

Sorry, memories of a misspent youth playing Mortal Kombat in the arcades came flooding back at reading this.

The only real criticism I can level at this build is that the standard Assassin Rogue with capstone and a Radiance Rapier may out-dps your build due to the higher frequency of sneak attacks gained from the blindness. There's also a substantial increase in SA Dice from the capstone, IIRC.

However, for something a little different, I really like this.

I can still see that Uppercut off the bridge move in my minds-eye

[Ookami007]

As a flavor build, it's not bad... I'd probably swap out some equipment posted for epic items, but otherwise, not bad.

The inclusive of any +3 tomes is always suspect since they aren't THAT easy to get one, let alone the one you want/need.

But it IS a flavor build and a full assassin khopesh STR build will still outdps it since 1) There are no GS handwraps and 2) You don't get the higher unarmed attack damage of a full monk... plus the crit/crit multiplier of unarmed strikes will significantly impact your dps in epics. And a dual Min2 heavy pick build will leave it in the dust in epics against held mobs.

But like I said, this isn't a dps build... it's a flavor build... and as such, I suspect would be alot of fun to play.... especially with customized armor and the ninja mask cosmetic helm from the store.

[Kinerd]

I had just done some of the math on this recently. 20 rogue will have more sneak attack damage per time even taking unarmed speed & wind stance into account, but not by too terribly much. Real weapons will also obviously have much better base damage, critical profiles, and procs than 1 monk unarmed and handwraps. I don't mean these as criticisms, just responses to the people who were wondering.

I am curious by what you mean, OP, by "More balanced DPS over different fortification levels with respect to a pure rogue", if you care to elaborate.

[valas1750]

I have a very similar build, but dwarven.

18rog/1mnk/1fght

Focuses on stunning blow as well, with metallic stunning+10 wraps and ToD rings.
Unarmed+wind stance allows you to provide the most SA DPS if sneak attack is assumed a constant (due to significant increase in speed and a noticable increase in double strike outweigheing lesser SA dice).

Ill post more about my build later, but currently has a stunning blow DC of 41, and some gear gains could increase this higher). Yeah I dont get radiance weapons, which is a pain... but this is a partial flavor build (well in fact, just a flavor build that works quite nicely).

The fighter level increases hp by 10, adds 1 to stunning blow DC, and frees up a feat slot (but removes a rogue extra feat).

The simple truth is though that there is not a faster vorpal-er out there. This guy attacks as quick as possible while having vorpal on his weapons (a pure 20 mnk hits faster, but cant get the vorpal on handwraps). Definitely think your build will work fine, but ill be sticking with my dwarven slammer... the stuns help so much.

[Kinerd]

Unarmed+wind stance allows you to provide the most SA DPS if sneak attack is assumed a constant (due to significant increase in speed and a noticable increase in double strike outweigheing lesser SA dice).

From Vanshilar's swing animations per minute thread:

Monk unarmed = 89.4 * (100% + 1.39*sum of each boost%)
TWF = 86.6 * (100% + 1.2*sum of each boost%)

(There are slight changes due to BAB, but a 18/1/1 or 19/1 will have the same or nearly the same unarmed BAB as the armed BAB of the 20.)

With rogue haste boost IV and haste, this works out to:

unarmed = 145.7
twf = 133.4

GTWF gives 80% offhand chance, opportunist gives 3% double strike chance, and wind stance I gives 2.5% double strike chance, so we have a total number of swing processes per minute of:

unarmed = 270.3
twf = 244.1

A 19/1 rogue/monk will have 57.5 sneak attack damage and a pure rogue will have 71.5 (on average) from professional enhancements, so we can calculate the sneak attack damage per second by multiplying the above and dividing by 60. We get:

unarmed = 259.1
twf = 290.1

.

We could also treat the halfling case, which offers another 8 sneak attack damage. This closes the gap to:

unarmed = 295.1
twf = 323.4

It's important to point out that when the haste boost is not active the twf gets even better, because the unarmed gets more out of boosts than twf does.

(Incidentally, I also considered the case of going to monk 6 for Wind Stance II and Ninja Spy or throwing in ranger 6 for Tempest I, but each of these are even worse than 19/1.)

[Fecerak]

IMO, this build sounds nice if you play it the way I feel like it should be.

Which is RadII weps when soloing, MinII if you get them against bosses, and only use the HWs for vorp situations. Because otherwise you would lose dps. In those circumstances however, it would be pretty beastly.

[LeLoric]

From Vanshilar's swing animations per minute thread:

Monk unarmed = 89.4 * (100% + 1.39*sum of each boost%)
TWF = 86.6 * (100% + 1.2*sum of each boost%)

(There are slight changes due to BAB, but a 18/1/1 or 19/1 will have the same or nearly the same unarmed BAB as the armed BAB of the 20.)

With rogue haste boost IV and haste, this works out to:

unarmed = 145.7
twf = 133.4

GTWF gives 80% offhand chance, opportunist gives 3% double strike chance, and wind stance I gives 2.5% double strike chance, so we have a total number of swing processes per minute of:

unarmed = 270.3
twf = 244.1

A 19/1 rogue/monk will have 57.5 sneak attack damage and a pure rogue will have 71.5 (on average) from professional enhancements, so we can calculate the sneak attack damage per second by multiplying the above and dividing by 60. We get:

unarmed = 259.1
twf = 290.1

.

We could also treat the halfling case, which offers another 8 sneak attack damage. This closes the gap to:

unarmed = 295.1
twf = 323.4

It's important to point out that when the haste boost is not active the twf gets even better, because the unarmed gets more out of boosts than twf does.

(Incidentally, I also considered the case of going to monk 6 for Wind Stance II and Ninja Spy or throwing in ranger 6 for Tempest I, but each of these are even worse than 19/1.)

This may be true for just the sneak attack but factoring in earth strikes full str bonus to off hand etc. it is really a dead push and the monk splash performs better against fortified mobs.

[valas1750]

From Vanshilar's swing animations per minute thread:

Monk unarmed = 89.4 * (100% + 1.39*sum of each boost%)
TWF = 86.6 * (100% + 1.2*sum of each boost%)

(There are slight changes due to BAB, but a 18/1/1 or 19/1 will have the same or nearly the same unarmed BAB as the armed BAB of the 20.)

With rogue haste boost IV and haste, this works out to:

unarmed = 145.7
twf = 133.4

GTWF gives 80% offhand chance, opportunist gives 3% double strike chance, and wind stance I gives 2.5% double strike chance, so we have a total number of swing processes per minute of:

unarmed = 270.3
twf = 244.1

A 19/1 rogue/monk will have 57.5 sneak attack damage and a pure rogue will have 71.5 (on average) from professional enhancements, so we can calculate the sneak attack damage per second by multiplying the above and dividing by 60. We get:

unarmed = 259.1
twf = 290.1


.

We could also treat the halfling case, which offers another 8 sneak attack damage. This closes the gap to:

unarmed = 295.1
twf = 323.4

It's important to point out that when the haste boost is not active the twf gets even better, because the unarmed gets more out of boosts than twf does.

(Incidentally, I also considered the case of going to monk 6 for Wind Stance II and Ninja Spy or throwing in ranger 6 for Tempest I, but each of these are even worse than 19/1.)

Wind stance also adds 5% stacking attack speed buff. Additionally, with the static + from items, the more times these bonuses are applied the better (i need to do more intensive studies, but for me at least, DDO seems to not follow average ruling for SA damage at all).

Mayhaps it is closer to regular as I thought, but please do include the 5% increase in attack speed.

This brings the attacks to
277.85 unarmed
244.1222 twf


With enhancement training and item bonuses, this changes to a DPS of
Unarmed : 340
TWF: 356

Of course varying on gear. So actually I stand corrected IF DDO actually follows the statistical averages, TWF and staying pure for capstone is ahead.... but again I would like to do more studying and determine my rogues ACTUAL AVERAGE and not the theoretical, as I swear it is kind of like the charged gloves (where 10d6 is actually more like 10d3+30 over a sample size of 100).

Although the poster above me makes a good point, that adding in Earth attack DPS and finisher (especially in auto-crit situations like from my monks stunning blow) help close this gap. WIth full str bonus on offhand (for str rogues) counters the TWF rogues increase in weapon die (for GS items at least)

Regardless, my main point was that this is no mere "flavor build", and while it looks and somewhat acts far from the current meta.... it is very competitive, and proper agro management and player skill make a much larger difference than the say... 3% or 4% change in optimal character DPS... and this monk assassin can stun epics, while the other rogue can blind with rad2,
And more importantly, it WILL vorpal more than any other character ever

[Kinerd]

This may be true for just the sneak attack but factoring in earth strikes full str bonus to off hand etc. it is really a dead push and the monk splash performs better against fortified mobs.

The full strength bonus to off hand is worth considering, but we should also consider the vastly superior crit profile of rapiers:

Handwraps:
1.8 * (17 * S + 2 * 2 * S) = 1.8 * 21 * S = 37.8 * S

Rapier:
(13 * S + 6 * 2 * S) + .8 * (13 * .5 * S + 6 * 2 * .5 * S) = 25 * S + .8 * .5 * 25 * S = 35 * S

And let's throw in the speed bit too, so:

((270.3 / 244.1) * 37.8 - 35) * S = 6.86 * S

So for each point of strength, the handwraps gain about 6.86 damage over 19 swings. (Comparatively, for each point of non-Strength damage bonus, the rapiers gain 1.8 * ((244.1 / 270.3) * 25 - 21) = 2.84 damage, and the effective +1 greensteel rapiers have due to higher dice is worth 1.8 * 25 * 244.1 / 270.3 = 40.64 damage over 19 swings.) If we look at rad II rapiers, we get 3.5 per 19 for pure good, 3.5 per 19 and 33 flat for flaming burst, 33 + 14 for flaming blast. This gives us:

6.86 * S = 2.84 * D + 40.64 + 1.8 * (3.5 * 19 + 3.5 * 19 + 33 + 33 + 14) * 244.1 / 270.3
6.86 * S = 2.84 * D + 386.88

Even if you had only the base 5 bonus to damage from the weapon itself, you would need 59 Strength bonus to catch up, which I think is beyond the reach of most rogue builds, and you'd need even more to catch up the difference in sneak attack damage. Still, it's not as if the rapiers are lapping the handwraps, and handwraps effects and ToD rings help close the gap too.

Wind stance also adds 5% stacking attack speed buff.

The bonus to attack speed is Enhancement type, which will not stack with Haste. The bonus to double-strike is taken into account in the calculations from both Opportunist and Wind Stance.

Regardless, my main point was that this is no mere "flavor build", and while it looks and somewhat acts far from the current meta.... it is very competitive, and proper agro management and player skill make a much larger difference than the say... 3% or 4% change in optimal character DPS... and this monk assassin can stun epics, while the other rogue can blind with rad2,
And more importantly, it WILL vorpal more than any other character ever

Yes, to be clear, I'm referring specifically to the DPS due to sneak attack damage and attack rates in the big math post before this one, which should not be construed as a holistic evaluation of this build. My holistic evaluation is: I think it's pretty cool.

[valas1750]

The full strength bonus to off hand is worth considering, but we should also consider the vastly superior crit profile of rapiers:

Handwraps:
1.8 * (17 * S + 2 * 2 * S) = 1.8 * 21 * S = 37.8 * S

Rapier:
(13 * S + 6 * 2 * S) + .8 * (13 * .5 * S + 6 * 2 * .5 * S) = 25 * S + .8 * .5 * 25 * S = 35 * S

And let's throw in the speed bit too, so:

((270.3 / 244.1) * 37.8 - 35) * S = 6.86 * S

So for each point of strength, the handwraps gain about 6.86 damage over 19 swings. (Comparatively, for each point of non-Strength damage bonus, the rapiers gain 1.8 * ((244.1 / 270.3) * 25 - 21) = 2.84 damage, and the effective +1 greensteel rapiers have due to higher dice is worth 1.8 * 25 * 244.1 / 270.3 = 40.64 damage over 19 swings.) If we look at rad II rapiers, we get 3.5 per 19 for pure good, 3.5 per 19 and 33 flat for flaming burst, 33 + 14 for flaming blast. This gives us:

6.86 * S = 2.84 * D + 40.64 + 1.8 * (3.5 * 19 + 3.5 * 19 + 33 + 33 + 14) * 244.1 / 270.3
6.86 * S = 2.84 * D + 386.88

Even if you had only the base 5 bonus to damage from the weapon itself, you would need 59 Strength bonus to catch up, which I think is beyond the reach of most rogue builds, and you'd need even more to catch up the difference in sneak attack damage. Still, it's not as if the rapiers are lapping the handwraps, and handwraps effects and ToD rings help close the gap too.The bonus to attack speed is Enhancement type, which will not stack with Haste. The bonus to double-strike is taken into account in the calculations from both Opportunist and Wind Stance.Yes, to be clear, I'm referring specifically to the DPS due to sneak attack damage and attack rates in the big math post before this one, which should not be construed as a holistic evaluation of this build. My holistic evaluation is: I think it's pretty cool.

/concede.

And fair enough.

but yep to the op, i have a 20 dwarf stunner build... it works, and doesnt **** anyone off by being too much of a flavor build and vorpals like a ***** =)

[Soleran]

Keep in mind monk windstance isn't a stacking haste.

[krogyy]

oh! finally some criticism XD

it is true that this is a flavor build but i think it perform reasonably well also.

i have run the dps calculation some time ago against the pure kopesh rogue. unfortunately i can't find it right now, but if memory serves me well this build was 10% lower against trash, 10% higher vs bosses and like 40-50% more against uncrittable. this counting a +1 metalline handwraps of greater bane vs min II Kopesh in all cases.

so this is what i mean by balanced, you give up some dps where you are stronger for gaining a lot more in situations where you are weaker.

Edit: Found them. i hope i didn't make any mistake

549.41	
Black Lotus	Halfling
Unarmed	Unarmed
	
Unarmed 1-3 levels	Unarmed 1-3 levels
0	0
0	0
1	1
0	0
1	1
0	0
	
	
0	0
0	0
0	0
	
	
	
0	0
0	0
0	0
	
40	40
0	0
0	0
	
100	100
0	0
0	0
	
	
0	0
0	0
0	0
3	3
0	0
	
	
3.5	3.5
5	5
38	38
14	14
5	5
1	1
2	2
0	0
0	0
0	0
0	0
0	0
0	0
0	0
0	0
0	0
0	0
9	9
1	1
No	No
40.5	40.5
	
	
No	No
19	19
12	12
0	0
8	8
8	8
0	0
10.5	10.5
73.5	73.5
	
	
7	7
3.5	3.5
0	0
0	0
73.5	73.5
0	0
0	0
0	0
0	0
0	0
0	0
10.5	10.5
1	0
95.5	94.5
66.1	65.1
22	21
136	135
106.6	105.6
62.5	61.5
	
	
Yes	
3	
0	
0	
0	0
0	0
0	0
0	0
0	0
0	0
0	0
1	
0	0
0	0
0	0
	
	
0	0
2	2
2	2
81	81
64.8	64.8
40.5	40.5
95.5	94.5
66.1	65.1
22	21
5.5	5.5
5.5	5.5
5.5	5.5
0	0
0	0
0	0
10.5	10.5
0	0
0	0
0	0
0	0
0	0
0	0
0	0
192.5	191.5
146.9	145.9
78.5	77.5
134.85	133.9
105.3	104.35
60.98	60.03
	
	
5	5
Yes	Yes
20	20
5	5
0.62	0.62
0.56	0.56
0.67	0.67
	
9	9
30	30
0	0
0	0
0	0
0.81	0.76
0.57	0.53
0.62	0.62
1.2	1.26
1.61	1.69
0.080	0.080
	
0	0
0	0
0	0
0	0
0	0
	
0	0
80	80
	
0	0
0	0
0	0
	
	
No	No
No	No
No	No
No	No
GTWF	GTWF
None	None
Yes	Yes
	
0	0
	
	
9	
96.08	
115.45	
154.73	
681.17	544.93
91855.31	72966.56
71726.84	56863.78
41534.13	32709.62
306.18	243.22
239.09	189.55
138.45	109.03
549.41	
428.64	
247.48	
408.51	
Black Lotus	Halfling

586.87	
Rog 20, Min Khop	Halfling
TWF	TWF
	
Khopesh	Khopesh
0	0
0	0
1	1
1	1
0	0
0	0
	
	
0	0
0	0
0	0
	
	
	
0	0
0	0
0	0
	
40	40
0	0
20	20
	
100	100
0	0
30	30
	
	
0	0
0	0
0	0
3	3
0	0
	
	
5.5	5.5
5	5
38	38
14	7
5	5
0	0
0	0
2	2
0	0
0	0
0	0
0	0
0	0
0	0
0	0
0	0
0	0
9	9
1	1
No	No
41.5	34.5
	
	
Yes	Yes
20	20
12	12
0	0
8	8
8	8
0	0
10.5	10.5
87.5	87.5
	
	
7	7
3.5	3.5
0	0
0	0
87.5	87.5
0	0
0	0
0	0
0	0
7	7
2.5	2.5
0	0
1	1
108.5	108.5
70	70
17.5	17.5
150	143
111.5	104.5
59	52
	
	
Yes	
3	
0	
0	
0	0
0	0
0	0
0	0
0	0
0	0
0	0
1	
0	0
0	0
0	0
	
	
8	8
4	4
3	3
124.5	103.5
91.3	75.9
41.5	34.5
108.5	108.5
70	70
17.5	17.5
11	11
0	0
0	0
11	11
0	0
0	0
0	0
0	0
14	14
0	0
0	0
24	24
14.4	14.4
0	0
293	272
175.7	160.3
59	52
171.8	162.35
118.77	110.44
56.05	49.4
	
	
5	5
Yes	Yes
20	20
5	5
0.62	0.62
0.56	0.56
0.67	0.67
	
7	7
30	30
0	0
0	0
0	0
0.81	0.76
0.57	0.53
0.67	0.67
1.19	1.24
1.55	1.62
0.125	0.125
	
0	0
0	0
0	0
0	0
0	0
	
0	0
80	80
	
0	0
0	0
0	0
	
	
No	No
No	No
No	No
No	No
GTWF	GTWF
None	None
No	No
	
0	0
	
	
7	
88.98	
105.53	
137.78	
583.6	466.88
100262.46	75797.95
69311.24	51559.88
32710.77	23063.87
334.21	252.66
231.04	171.87
109.04	76.88
586.87	
402.9	
185.92	
391.9	
Rog 20, Min Khop	Halfling

so the percentages i remembered were wrong after all... but the point remains, i lose vs trash (where i have faster vorpals) and gain vs bosses and uncrittables.

[krogyy]

As a flavor build, it's not bad... I'd probably swap out some equipment posted for epic items, but otherwise, not bad.

The inclusive of any +3 tomes is always suspect since they aren't THAT easy to get one, let alone the one you want/need.

But it IS a flavor build and a full assassin khopesh STR build will still outdps it since 1) There are no GS handwraps and 2) You don't get the higher unarmed attack damage of a full monk... plus the crit/crit multiplier of unarmed strikes will significantly impact your dps in epics. And a dual Min2 heavy pick build will leave it in the dust in epics against held mobs.

But like I said, this isn't a dps build... it's a flavor build... and as such, I suspect would be alot of fun to play.... especially with customized armor and the ninja mask cosmetic helm from the store.

i didn't counted +3 tomes in the stats. i just observed that if one day i get a charisma one i can swap feats while still mantain 39 UMD.

for epics, i wrote about possible solutions. i can swap out S.F:UMD for martial weapon proficiency for example to negate the -4 penalty with picks. i would miss the improved crit range but with mass holds is maybe not so important.

rogues are not proficient in picks so also the pure rogue need to pick the same feat or stick with the penalty. and in autocrit situations the capstone's 4d6 sa counts, in percentage of the total damage done, much less.

[BLITHELY]

Unless this has been changed; have not had a splash build that low so this can b verfied but this was the case not long ago. Handwraps r not considered magic weapons for purposes of bypassing damage reduction. Surprisingly many higher lvl mobs have the requirement of magic + other things 2 damage them. Anyways something 2 consider.

[valas1750]

Unless this has been changed; have not had a splash build that low so this can b verfied but this was the case not long ago. Handwraps r not considered magic weapons for purposes of bypassing damage reduction. Surprisingly many higher lvl mobs have the requirement of magic + other things 2 damage them. Anyways something 2 consider.

AFAIK not an issue anymore

[krogyy]

Unless this has been changed; have not had a splash build that low so this can b verfied but this was the case not long ago. Handwraps r not considered magic weapons for purposes of bypassing damage reduction. Surprisingly many higher lvl mobs have the requirement of magic + other things 2 damage them. Anyways something 2 consider.

can you give me an example of such mobs?
i'll verify if it works

[Kinerd]

can you give me an example of such mobs?
i'll verify if it works

I remember wraiths having DR/magic. It's not on the ddowiki though, while mephits are, and it's probably easier to run out to 3BC than muck around some undead quest.

[valas1750]

As an FYI, this DR breaking magic thing is a non-issue... goes past now at least.