Redoing of XP gain and lost

[Aussieee]

Pls devs can you take a look at xp penalty and how is affecting players and play styles. Redo xp penalty for dying. At this point the xp system doesn't encourage group play it actually discourages it. People would prefer to play solo or in small group of friends because they are afraid they will lose the 10% xp bonus for no deaths. Even people would prefer bringing a hireling along because the penalty from them dying is less then a real player dying. We should be encouraged to group together. This is what makes this game so special the people and interacting with each other, this is what keeps us around and makes people come back. The xp penalty for anyone death is supposed to make the group work together and trying to achieve something together but you have to take a look at the issues here nobody can really tell anyone what to do in the quest, if they simply don't listen , run ahead and grab the whole dungeon and drag it back, get a red alert......... if people don't really know how to keep them self alive and be self sufficient if needed everybody suffers. Not 1 but the whole group loses 10% xp!

1st death on character effects them and gives them 5% loss and the party gets a 2% xp loss(which doesn't go up with any additional deaths), 2nd death -7% and 3+ is 10%. This will actually make people play more careful and not be afraid that they have to pug and they will lose that precious xp bonus, i am so tired of using xp potions to make up for somebody else dying Newer people cap way 2 fast riding on tail of others and don't really get to learn much this will be a way to slow them down and make them adjust their play style so they don't lose so much xp and also they won't ruin other peoples xp...... pls take a look at this issue.

Would be nice if we can take a look also of reenter once again let only the person reentering be effected by this.

And last how about a xp bonus for not breaking boxes? Maybe a 5 or 7%?

[Krag]

/signed, sealed and delivered

Players should not be penalized for grouping with players.

[ToKu]

Unless I have missed something... these are bonuses that have been added to quests. They did not adjust the xp these quests gave to assume you would get all bonuses in order to meet its old level.

So if a person dies you are not taking a xp penalty, you are simply not getting the xp bonus.

XP penalties are in the form of : times completed and highest level toon over the level of the quest.

[Xezno]

Totally agree. If anything you should get more xp for having a bigger group.

[Xezno]

Unless I have missed something... these are bonuses that have been added to quests. They did not adjust the xp these quests gave to assume you would get all bonuses in order to meet its old level.

So if a person dies you are not taking a xp penalty, you are simply not getting the xp bonus.

XP penalties are in the form of : times completed and highest level toon over the level of the quest.

loosing a bonus is the same as a penalty. Actually the game would be better off if they just removed the bonus all together.

[ToKu]

I actually like it as is. The bonus is enticing enough that most people strive not to be reckless (that I have encountered) and to not die, and if someone does, it gives us something to chat and laugh about while completing the quest.

[ToKu]

loosing a bonus is the same as a penalty. Actually the game would be better off if they just removed the bonus all together.

So you propose we remove the penalty for dying, by removing all bonuses?

I think the problem is too many people expect some of the bonuses to just be part of the quest, kinda like optionals. They are nice to have, things to strive for, benchmarks... they are not required.

[Aussieee]

So you propose we remove the penalty for dying, by removing all bonuses?

I think the problem is too many people expect some of the bonuses to just be part of the quest, kinda like optionals. They are nice to have, things to strive for, benchmarks... they are not required.

LOl you are kidding right? Are you saying that is perfectly ok if somebody reenters the dungeon about 5 times? Are you still gonna continue laughing after he has just ruined your xp by dying as well?

[ToKu]

LOl you are kidding right? Are you saying that is perfectly ok if somebody reenters the dungeon about 5 times? Are you still gonna continue laughing after he has just ruined your xp by dying as well?

Last I checked if someone else reenters the dungeon I only lose the 10% for that, the person in question however would lose more. If they die and I lose another 10% BONUS... I still make base xp, plus any bonuses I do manage to complete, plus my guildship buff, plus my voice of the master, plus any xp pots I may be running... I am still making more then the base xp of the dungeon and content. I could be wrong but this is also something that happens less then a pug shroud failing so I have no experience with it.

Now if I was in a lvl 11 quest and someone brought in a lvl 13+ that would be different, because its reducing the minimum I would recieve.

Its like you order an ice cream sunday with a cherry on top, but sometimes they give you 2 cherries, so you complain when you dont get 2 even though that 2nd one was a BONUS beyond what you were already getting.

Would you prefer they never give you 2 cherries again? Or would you rather sometimes get that extra treat?

[phillymiket]

Hmmmm...

I always considered the xp bonus as an award for the team working together and avoiding anyone dieing not for an individual to be able to avoid death.

It seems like a nice incentive to make people buff each other and help each other.

Example: I was in a Wiz King where the leader said "don't worry about traps we all have evasion". I said "ahhh, I dont". The reply was "Well I guess you're SOL".

Without the bonus won't there be more people who could care less about their party members?
Would the change to the bonus make it less likely that folks would go back to help struggling party members and make pugs even more annoying?

I'm just wondering.
I like it when parties stick together.
It's more fun and D&D like for me even when it takes a bit longer. (I like the ride not just the destination)
I like incentives to act as a party.

It sure is a shame some people disrespect the XP and time of others and act foolishly though.
I feel your pain but I respectfully don't think I agree with this change.

[Aussieee]

Its like you order an ice cream sunday with a cherry on top, but sometimes they give you 2 cherries if you smile, so you complain when you dont get 2 because somebody ran by and made the ice cream lady mad even though that 2nd one was a BONUS beyond what you were already getting.

Would you prefer they never give you 2 cherries again? Or would you rather sometimes get that extra treat?

I would prefer to be responsible for my xp and not be at the mercy of others.

Hmmmm...

I always considered the xp bonus as an award for the team working together and avoiding anyone dieing not for an individual to be able to avoid death.

It seems like a nice incentive to make people buff each other and help each other. it also can make people me more self sufficient and try to survive longer, strive for better, instead of not carrying potions and be a burden to a party

Example: I was in a Wiz King where the leader said "don't worry about traps we all have evasion". I said "ahhh, I dont". The reply was "Well I guess you're SOL".

Without the bonus won't there be more people who could care less about their party members?
Would the change to the bonus make it less likely that folks would go back to help struggling party members and make pugs even more annoying?

I'm just wondering.
I like it when parties stick together.
It's more fun and D&D like for me even when it takes a bit longer. (I like the ride not just the destination)not everyone has a whole day to smell the flowers and look and wonder around
I like incentives to act as a party.

It sure is a shame some people disrespect the XP and time of others and act foolishly though.
I feel your pain but I respectfully don't think I agree with this change.

While I somewhere agree that it is nice to play as a party it is the time that it doesn't happen when people die, they don't listen or join groups which they weren't welcomed( zerg lfm saying know the way-noob joins with share, where is the quest?). Most of the people feel bad when they die , I know I do as well because I am screwing at least 5 more people of 10% xp!!! Again i don't want to pay for somebody else's death and I don't want them to pay for mine as well.

[Uska]

Its not a penalty its a bonus and as it is it gives party members insentive to try and keep each other alive. so not signed.

[NinjaNeed]

/ NOT signed!

Reasons...

1. It will remove peoples need to play as a team. Healers would stop healing others just to make sure they survive to get the bonus.

2. The xp is BONUS xp, NOT a penalty.

[Nyvn]

Last I checked if someone else reenters the dungeon I only lose the 10% for that, the person in question however would lose more. If they die and I lose another 10% BONUS... I still make base xp, plus any bonuses I do manage to complete, plus my guildship buff, plus my voice of the master, plus any xp pots I may be running... I am still making more then the base xp of the dungeon and content. I could be wrong but this is also something that happens less then a pug shroud failing so I have no experience with it.

Now if I was in a lvl 11 quest and someone brought in a lvl 13+ that would be different, because its reducing the minimum I would recieve.

Its like you order an ice cream sunday with a cherry on top, but sometimes they give you 2 cherries, so you complain when you dont get 2 even though that 2nd one was a BONUS beyond what you were already getting.

Would you prefer they never give you 2 cherries again? Or would you rather sometimes get that extra treat?

Well the problem is that to get 2 cherries you're better off excluding people. Short manning or soloing quests instead of picking up a Pug. Should a grouping centric game encourage people to not group?

[rexservorum]

So if a person dies you are not taking a xp penalty, you are simply not getting the xp bonus.

/notsigned because of this. It is called a "Flawless Victory Bonus" for a reason - the quest, not just your own performance, was executed flawlessly. Perhaps players who did not die could be given a different, smaller bonus for having been able to remain alive, like how currently that 10% goes down to 5% if it was only a hireling that died.

Yes, it's cool when things go perfectly and you get as much XP as possible. Yes, it's annoying when the 10% bonus goes away due to someone playing irresponsibly. But if you are on your double TR character with an xp pot ticking and desperate to get every last iota of XP/min from a quest, you have a few options:

a) solo it
b) pug it (knowing it may go pear-shaped and taking it in stride when it does)
c) pug it "TRs/vets only" style or guild run it for extra insurance even though it will take longer to get a group, or
d) pug it, knowing it may go pear-shaped but totally prepared to chew out and squelch anyone who loses you your bonus until your list is filling up faster than my stomach with egg rolls at the local Chinese buffet.

Man I love egg rolls, especially if they have pork. I also love seeing people do any of those options except "d." DDO-related stress the world over would totally reduce except that "d" seems to be the most common occurrence.

The other day I was doing ADQ when someone died a few minutes in. Someone else I'd never played with but who'd already proven himself to be rather witty said over voice chat, "Well, glad we got that ten percent out of the way." I laughed, but I also realized that this is the way I have come to feel about things. I don't like watching people fight or get ****ed off, even when I am not the target of their ire. Not that I don't try to remain alive or keep others alive or anything, but it always comes as a sort of relief when I hear, "ding!" and Flawless Victory vanishes from the xp report. Maybe they fought, maybe they didn't, but at least it's over and done with and I don't have to sit there and wonder if a rage storm is on the horizon.

I would prefer to be responsible for my xp and not be at the mercy of others.

In this case you may be happier soloing. I know I usually am!

[cdbd3rd]

I've read thru this thread as well as the one that spawned it.


Auss, I feel where you're coming from. However, from a fairness viewpoint you can't restrict penalties (or "loss of bonus", for those that prefer that version) to individual XPs without somehow also limiting extra bonuses to individual XPs.

For example. Rogues would be the only ones getting bonus XPs for trap neutralization. Or Conquest bonuses only going to characters that head the Kill Count. Ransack only to the ones actually breaking the boxes & crates....


/Goes back to sitting on his non-pugging fence.

[ToKu]

Well the problem is that to get 2 cherries you're better off excluding people. Short manning or soloing quests instead of picking up a Pug. Should a grouping centric game encourage people to not group?

If my choices are to fill spots for the sake of filling them... or short manning it with quality players, I choose the later every single time. Changing the nature of this would not change players in a positive way.

I will still shortman it rather then risk players that will slow me down, and with no encentive from ones peers, players may not improve.

[ToKu]

The other day I was doing ADQ when someone died a few minutes in. Someone else I'd never played with but who'd already proven himself to be rather witty said over voice chat, "Well, glad we got that ten percent out of the way." I laughed, but I also realized that this is the way I have come to feel about things. I don't like watching people fight or get ****ed off, even when I am not the target of their ire. Not that I don't try to remain alive or keep others alive or anything, but it always comes as a sort of relief when I hear, "ding!" and Flawless Victory vanishes from the xp report. Maybe they fought, maybe they didn't, but at least it's over and done with and I don't have to sit there and wonder if a rage storm is on the horizon.

I usually say something along the lines of "glad that stress is out of the way" myself. ;D

[RTN]

Would be nice if we can take a look also of reenter once again let only the person reentering be effected by this.

And last how about a xp bonus for not breaking boxes? Maybe a 5 or 7%?

I'm torn about the -10% bonus for dying, although since this is a bonus you lose, I can live with it. However, reentering can benefit the whole party, especially if a reenter is actually about getting sp back. This one is too open to abuse and should definitely not be changed.

An xp bonus for not breaking boxes is just silly. What are we, the OCD explorers? Getting a bonus for breaking them at least fits a bit with the overall theme of us being explorers, mass murders of monsters and pilferers of other people's stuff.

There is more than enough XP in the game, even for TRs (and yes, I've done TR).

[sweez]

I've read thru this thread as well as the one that spawned it.


Auss, I feel where you're coming from. However, from a fairness viewpoint you can't restrict penalties (or "loss of bonus", for those that prefer that version) to individual XPs without somehow also limiting extra bonuses to individual XPs.

For example. Rogues would be the only ones getting bonus XPs for trap neutralization. Or Conquest bonuses only going to characters that head the Kill Count. Ransack only to the ones actually breaking the boxes & crates....


/Goes back to sitting on his non-pugging fence.

This is a newsletter I could subscribe to.

As my 5x(I think, maybe more) TR guildy says: "please dont die - but if you do, I won't have a baby over it".