Radiance Rapier or Scimitar?

[Scortius]

I have a halfling rogue/ranger that is coming up on the cap, and I'm getting ready to craft a RadII. As I have another similar capped rogue, I'm thinking about TR-ing fairly quickly and re-doing the build as a straight-class STR based, or at least STR-emphasized rogue (i.e no Weapon Finesse)

Have been looking at the H-elf with Fighter Dilletante options. Like the idea of Armor mastery as I have Black dragonscale leathers and a Breastplate of Destruction outa HoX. Haven't completely thought it out, and halfling is still on the table- I find I get a lot of use out of the Dragonmarks.

Is there much advantage in going for a scimitar-kukri combo over rapier-shortsword? Any thoughts? Has anyone actually tried both?

Also interested in feedback on the Helf idea, but my main question is scimitar or rapier.

[grodon9999]

Rapier has 1 advantage . . . if you TR into a pure rogue who isn't an Elf you'll maintain your proficiency.

[Draccus]

Rapier has 1 advantage . . . if you TR into a pure rogue who isn't an Elf you'll maintain your proficiency.

Another advantage, albeit minor, is that Improved Critical: Pierce gives you a huge advantage with banishing rapiers. A banishing rapier in the hands of someone with IC:Pierce makes most of the Vale trivial to solo.

Again, it's a small advantage but when I was a noob with a horrid build, no guild, and the cap was 16, I spent hours soloing the Vale. Of course, this was before epic weapons, before TRs, before level 20, before dungeon scaling, and before ship buffs. I'm sure the Vale is trivial without banishing rapiers now.

[grodon9999]

Another advantage, albeit minor, is that Improved Critical: Pierce gives you a huge advantage with banishing rapiers. A banishing rapier in the hands of someone with IC:Pierce makes most of the Vale trivial to solo.

Again, it's a small advantage but when I was a noob with a horrid build, no guild, and the cap was 16, I spent hours soloing the Vale. Of course, this was before epic weapons, before TRs, before level 20, before dungeon scaling, and before ship buffs. I'm sure the Vale is trivial without banishing rapiers now.

My rapier-toon with banishing rapiers still murders stuff in the vale faster than anything I've ever seen (except for another toon with dual-banishing rapiers).

WoP still are amazing in non-epic content, especially if you got somebody with heavy-picks following you Granted these are still rare and expensive.

[Thrudh]

I'd go with rapier... You can use rapier on both a STR-based character and a DEX-based character....

[drac317]

I'm sure the Vale is trivial without banishing rapiers now.

must be cant give mine away much less sell it on the ah

[Illiain]

Take the one with which you have Improved Critical. Unless you want to waste a feat on IC: Slash and Pierce, stick with one type of damage for both hands.

[jkm]

Honestly, if you are going this route, pierce is a better option for you (since you'd be going strength and not dex). Not because of rapier (though that is an added bonus), but because of heavy picks. Heavy Picks and Rapiers do the exact same damage over 20 swings (with the exception of radiance which pushes the rapier slightly ahead). What sets picks apart is the auto-crit fest we call Epic.

[Varr]

Rapier and.....rapier.

Feat toughness, 3 two weapon feats, ic pierce, 2 Optionals (I like oversized 2 weapon, most like power attack.)

A good str with a decent to hit -2 per hand with pure rogue and rapiers.....dynamite!!

[grodon9999]

[QUOTE=jkm;3482055 Heavy Picks and Rapiers do the exact same damage over 20 swings (with the exception of radiance which pushes the rapier slightly ahead). What sets picks apart is the auto-crit fest we call Epic.[/QUOTE]

That is not true. Rapiers will do more DPS in non-auto-crit. Pick rule for auto-crit.

[jkm]

rapiers do 1x the damage on 13 swings 2x the damage on 6 swings
picks do 1x the damage on 17 swings 4x the damage on 2 swings

thus, rapier is equivalent to 25 swings, pick is equivalent to 25 swings

on 5 random swings its highly likely the rapier will do more damage as its more probable that you'll crit. but on a full 20 swings they are equal.

[grodon9999]

rapiers do 1x the damage on 13 swings 2x the damage on 6 swings
picks do 1x the damage on 17 swings 4x the damage on 2 swings

thus, rapier is equivalent to 25 swings, pick is equivalent to 25 swings

on 5 random swings its highly likely the rapier will do more damage as its more probable that you'll crit. but on a full 20 swings they are equal.

No, it's basic math dude. With IC a pick gets 2 x4 Crits, rapier gets 6 x2 crits. Assuming a bloodstone and 50 points a swing.

Rapier
1 0
2 50
3 50
4 50
5 50
6 50
7 50
8 50
9 50
10 50
11 50
12 50
13 50
14 50
15 112
16 112
17 112
18 112
19 112
20 112

1322 = damage in 20 swings = 66.1 per swing

Pick
1 0
2 50
3 50
4 50
5 50
6 50
7 50
8 50
9 50
10 50
11 50
12 50
13 50
14 50
15 50
16 50
17 50
18 50
19 224
20 224

1298 = damage in 20 swings = 64.9

That's NOT counting elemental bursts from Greensteel weapons where the Rapier takes the lead further on anything that is vulnerable to that because of the frequency of crits..

[jkm]

the only difference between the 2 is the seeker bonus. if you take out that dev introduced oddball then they have the exact same damage profile. everything else is going to look exactly the same

6d10 for rapier crits for bursting
6d10 for picks for bursting

[grodon9999]

the only difference between the 2 is the seeker bonus. if you take out that dev introduced oddball then they have the exact same damage profile. everything else is going to look exactly the same

6d10 for rapier crits for bursting
6d10 for picks for bursting

True, but seeker is a factor.

We're debating minutia, it's a few points a swing one way or the other. It works out to the rapiers being 10 DPS higher which is trivial.

[jkm]

True, but seeker is a factor.

We're debating minutia, it's a few points a swing one way or the other. It works out to the rapiers being 10 DPS higher which is trivial.

yes, i'm just saying that in the end game as we know it today picks are a better choice. up to level 20, rapiers are a better choice.

[Gorbadoc]

We're debating minutia

Ironically, there's an 'e' at the end of 'minutiae'.

[grodon9999]

yes, i'm just saying that in the end game as we know it today picks are a better choice. up to level 20, rapiers are a better choice.

An that's what has me concerned. I've got a pierce-specced toon that has Mineral II rapiers and I'm looking to make her a set of lightnings and picks are looking like a great idea right now.

Stunning blow/mass-hold is the WoP Rapier of 2010. I do have my suspicions that the current dynamic of auot-critting helpless mobs at end-game is going to change. It works too well, it's screams "nerf me" as loud as anything that has been hit with Turbine's nerf-bat in the year that I've been here.

Firewall's just been nerfed with crit-fishing gone. Could we see and change in the combat dynamic where mobs no longer need a gaziliion HP? Would auto-critting be changed with mobs with say fewer HP but significantly more offense be the next thing? Who knows, I just know by the time I'm accustomed to something in a game it gets changed

[jkm]

An that's what has me concerned. I've got a pierce-specced toon that has Mineral II rapiers and I'm looking to make her a set of lightnings and picks are looking like a great idea right now.

Stunning blow/mass-hold is the WoP Rapier of 2010. I do have my suspicions that the current dynamic of auot-critting helpless mobs at end-game is going to change. It works too well, it's screams "nerf me" as loud as anything that has been hit with Turbine's nerf-bat in the year that I've been here.

Firewall's just been nerfed with crit-fishing gone. Could we see and change in the combat dynamic where mobs no longer need a gaziliion HP? Would auto-critting be changed with mobs with say fewer HP but significantly more offense be the next thing? Who knows, I just know by the time I'm accustomed to something in a game it gets changed

any changes in the mechanics for melee don't make it harder for the melee, they make it harder for the crowd control/healing support roles. to me the biggest issue in epic is caster dps, but they can't fix that until they fix the spell point per point of damage disparity between persistent AOE spells and single cast spells.

[Scortius]

Thanks for the replies- think I will craft the rapier. I also have a Icy Burst Force Crit Holy Cold Iron Rapier of Puncturing that's BtC, and a new Vampiric Fury Shortsword (somewhat better than WoP on fleshies). I very much agree with Grodon's point about Banishing rapiers on Shavvyside of the Vale- huge fun!.

For auto-crit epics may try to make do with a new Maiming Rockpslitter. As long as I have one I will pack a high dmg pick if running epics. But OP-wise that would actually be an argument to go for a scimitar and slashing: you could still pull out the pick when the wizzy lands his Mass Hold.

Has anyone ever made a Rad II scimitar? (maybe I should post on the Ranger Forum). I hear they like scimmy's over there

[Gorbadoc]

An that's what has me concerned. I've got a pierce-specced toon that has Mineral II rapiers and I'm looking to make her a set of lightnings and picks are looking like a great idea right now.

Stunning blow/mass-hold is the WoP Rapier of 2010. I do have my suspicions that the current dynamic of auot-critting helpless mobs at end-game is going to change. It works too well, it's screams "nerf me" as loud as anything that has been hit with Turbine's nerf-bat in the year that I've been here.

Firewall's just been nerfed with crit-fishing gone. Could we see and change in the combat dynamic where mobs no longer need a gaziliion HP? Would auto-critting be changed with mobs with say fewer HP but significantly more offense be the next thing? Who knows, I just know by the time I'm accustomed to something in a game it gets changed

They tried to change the face of crowd control once with Heroic Surges. I suspect their aim then was to avoid some of the problems that exist now. Monsters (and player characters) built up a kind of resistance to crowd control. The longer a monster spent immobilized, the more it built up, until they got a surge that made them temporarily immune to immobilizing effects (or that's what I remember, anyway). The mechanic was hugely unpopular on Lamannia, to the point where Turbine never even implemented it in the actual game.

I wonder what lessons they learned from the experience. The basic idea wasn't terrible, insofar as monsters could use some resistance that leaves CC useful but not godly; the current crowd control system is problematic when high level spells are involved, as we can see from the Mass Hold/Autocrit system.