ranger attempt

[NaturalHazard]

I know what his intentions are... My reasoning is this: how much cha can you dump? like start with 14cha at best? that nets you +2umd and you need to waste a feat on force of P. Greensteel umd item any1 can use as it adds to all cha based skills not cha itself.

Going this route will also mean you have to find a slot to equip a + cha item which is a huge flaw unless you have lots of epics and even then there are better stuff to pick. wis item every1 uses, so using wis instead of cha nets you AC, SP, saves (without wasting feat) and the need of only using 1 slot for wis item.

Instead of wasting a feat on force of p for +2 umd at best (14 starting cha) skill focus umd is +3, hence better...

also cant you get wis on a tod set that is more useful for a ranger tempest melee? and if you take monk cant you get a bonus feat out of that?

[Disavowed]

End game Human Khopesh user going cha as opposed to wis. W/ a pally splash and some fighter has 515 HP 505 SP self buff to 40 str w/ no item other than madstone boots and can UMD anything in the game. Reflex saves are just fine w/ evasion FYI. All saves on this toon are 35+ and will is over 40.

As stated by someone above dex melee toons are a thing of the past. You can fire off your heal spells all you want but you should be in there doing gamage. 4 heal scrolls after a fight and I'm up and running. Which I can do between fights on the run. As I have enough HP to get thru most any fight especially w/ 2 lay on hands for 120 hp each.

As far as a wasted feat for FOP. Really? You only need to start w/ an 11 and eat a +2 tome for FOP. Use wis as a dump stat it does no good other than SP and 500 SP is plenty. You can't tell me weapon finesse is a better choice of a feat. Dps the way the game is now is all str based. There is no way to argue that dex can keep up w/ str the way the game is now. You're only talking 2-3 on AC anyway. I'll take an extra 3 or 2 hp of damage on every single hit in every single quest for my toons entire life any day over 2 or 3 to AC because high level elite & epic you're still going to get tuned up but you won't have the HP to live.

Yes I can solo all that stuff as well. There is no way you're more self sufficient than me. Probably just as much but not more. The difference is I'm all str based and can drop things faster. Someone once stated my "DPS is my AC". The way the game is played now that's a very true statement. Sure go dex just plan on pecking away forever at mobs while they don't hit you and continue to give rangers a bad rep of having no DPS and no hp to boot. I'm so tired of hearing that rangers aren't tanks and this is the reason it happens. End game is a min max game period! You can't have it all. Pick one and excell at it but don't try to round it out all you will do is be less effective at everything and great at nothing. In this day and age of DDO great DPS derives from STR not dex.

[honkuimushi]

I hope you didn't take TWF as a selected feat OP. Rangers get TWF granted to them at 2nd level, ITWF at 6th and GTWF at 11th. If you selected TWF as a feat, you got screwed out of a feat, because you can't respec it once you hit level 2. You'll have to reroll.

Which isn't such a bad idea. Dex acutally does very little for a non-monk splashed Ranger. Wis does even less. The Ranger bonus TWF feats bypass the Dex requirements and AC will not really be very useful past level 12 or so. I usually go 14 Dex on my melee Rangers with 16+ Str, 14 Con, 10 Int and the remainder in Wis. With an 18 Dex and 14 Wis, I'm afraid to ask about your Str and Con.

[NaturalHazard]

End game Human Khopesh user going cha as opposed to wis. W/ a pally splash and some fighter has 515 HP 505 SP self buff to 40 str w/ no item other than madstone boots and can UMD anything in the game. Reflex saves are just fine w/ evasion FYI. All saves on this toon are 35+ and will is over 40.

As stated by someone above dex melee toons are a thing of the past. You can fire off your heal spells all you want but you should be in there doing gamage. 4 heal scrolls after a fight and I'm up and running. Which I can do between fights on the run. As I have enough HP to get thru most any fight especially w/ 2 lay on hands for 120 hp each.

As far as a wasted feat for FOP. Really? You only need to start w/ an 11 and eat a +2 tome for FOP. Use wisas a dump stat it does no good other than SP and 500 SP is plenty. You can't tell me weapon finesse is a better choice of a feat. Dps the way the game is now is all str based. There is no way to argue that dex can keep up w/ str the way the game is now. You're only talking 2-3 on AC anyway. I'll take an extra 3 or 2 hp of damage on every single hit in every single quest for my toons entire life any day over 2 or 3 to AC because high level elite & epic you're still going to get tuned up but you won't have the HP to live.

Yes I can solo all that stuff as well. There is no way you're more self sufficient than me. Probably just as much but not more. The difference is I'm all str based and can drop things faster. Someone once stated my "DPS is my AC". The way the game is played now that's a very true statement. Sure go dex just plan in pecking away forever at mobs while they don't hit you and continue to give rangers a bad rep of having no DPS and no hp too boot.

I dont see where he said he was weapon finese and dex based I think what he meant was he didnt ignore dex and wisdom and was still str based?

[Disavowed]

I have a ranger, customized, with 2WF, 14 wis and 18 dex, Human. What are the best enhancements for the first 5 levels in pure ranger?

I tried to spread the rest of the stats, skills, and feats across a variety, so that my ranger toon will be somewhat diverse. I did take weapon finesse, and also added some stealth skills.

I dont see where he said he was weapon finese and dex based I think what he meant was he didnt ignore dex and wisdom and was still str based?

You're correct he didn't directly say it but based on the 2 statements above I'd say it qualifies as a dex based toon (18 str and wep finesse). There's no reason to take weapon finesse unless one is going to be dex based.

[NaturalHazard]

im not talking about what the op said im talking about what you said about what aberch5 or whatever his name said about hes charactor build. er yeah. You can put some points into dex if you want to without sacrificing much like the 15/15 split grodden999 mentioned. Im only saying this, because of the language you used came across like you where telling everyone that your build was the only way to play a melee ranger. Im sure its awesome but it doesnt mean that it has to be the only way someone has to play a melee ranger and be useful.

[Disavowed]

im not talking about what the op said im talking about what you said about what aberch5 or whatever his name said about hes charactor build. er yeah. You can put some points into dex if you want to without sacrificing much like the 15/15 split grodden999 mentioned. Im only saying this, because of the language you used came across like you where telling everyone that your build was the only way to play a melee ranger. Im sure its awesome but it doesnt mean that it has to be the only way someone has to play a melee ranger and be useful.

Not saying that in the slightest. My build is one of many str rangers. There are tons of ways to build a STR ranger. I'm bringing one up now that Emili showed me that's nothing like my other 7 str based rangers that are all capped. What I am saying is that dex on a ranger the way it is now is a total waste. AAs suck when it comes to DPS and dex rangers are just a step behind. Everyone wants to keep acting like there is a still a way to make a dex based ranger crank out kills and/or DPS. The way the game is now you can't. Can you kill stuff? Yes. Can you keep up with the others? No! Not even close. Why do you see so many posts from rangers crying to fix range speed/damage? Because they know it's a fact and still want to pew pew stuff or use their WOP rapier.

Again as I stated above start at 15 dex and eat a +2 tome and I'll start at 11 and eat a +2 tome. I'll start at 18 str instead. We'll both run to cap. You put your points into dex as you go up and I'll put them into str. You will have 3 more ac points available than me. I will do 3 points of damage more on every single, hit in every single quest, for that toons entire life. Not to mention all the extra attacks I will be getting compared to a bow user or the extra damage my khopeshes will do compared to a rapier over every single hit over my toons entire life. The small amount of extra AC you can get from that doesn't even come close to the career of extra damage I will put out and I'll be just as survivable.

Yes you can make a toon that can survive as a dex build, but it won't qualify as a true melee toon. All it does is keep giving us a bad name. Us being those of us who conceeded that a dex ranger now sucks and have rerolled them to str rangers. I hate being thrown into this catagory as I can keep up in kills w/ just about any barb or fighter, except for the uber elite people on here. I'm seeing why it's happening as I run into more and more completely useless dex and AA rangers. There is no way about it. Run it thru the numbers generator using the best bow you can. It won't keep up with 2 GS khopeshes on a tempest str ranger w/ maxed out str. The numbers don't lie.

[Disavowed]

"Soloing VoD is a HUGE achievement, one that is way out of my league, (Phrute you have my props) but i don't really see this as "Redeeming" finess builds. I'm sure it kicks ass, but ATM, there are some quests which only focus on dps (poor design on turbine) and have no need for a toon like this. (I blame turbine, i personally think there should have no big drawback to making a dex based toon, they are different than your cookie cutter hack and slash barb, and are fun to play, however turbine's only focus over the last few updates/mods has been DPS) This is changing in the next Update with epic, though the focus is still on dps in epic with the 5,000+ hp mobs."

This was posted by Sweyn in another thread about dex builds. I think it hits the nail on the head when it comes to dex in the games current status.

[grodon9999]

Airship-buffs put STR-builds in the same league DEX-builds were a year ago. Solo'd Sins on Elite over the weekend on my EXploiter and 3-manned VoD as a test for my solo-attempt.

DEX-based at this time is kinda meh, it's bad game design on turbine's part but it is what it is.

15 starting STR on a ranger is still enough to get 40+ sustainable STR at end-game. Throw in the Ravager and Tempest/Shintao set and you'll put out more than enough damage to justify your party slot in any quest in the game.

[Rydin_Dirtay]

Everyone wants to keep acting like there is a still a way to make a dex based ranger crank out kills and/or DPS. The way the game is now you can't.

Quoted For Truth. And Original Poster...I am speaking from experience here, having built and levelled one at one time to high level before respeccing. Never again. At least until DDO changes.

If you want me to go through a long list of reasons why DEX-based melee Ranger'ing doesn't work, I can do it. But I think most of it was covered already. When you can't kill something fast, you take more damage...it perpetuates the stereotype that Rangers are squishy and have no DPS. Banish this stereotype!