Epic Scroll rolling on Argonnessen

[AMDarkwolf]

Scroll of gloves of the claw lands in my backpack. I won't use it (well not right away) but it has value, can easily be sold/traded fo something I DO need. No I will not put it up for roll. I must be a greedy wad.

Scroll of bigtop goes to someone else. I see it. Do i demand he put it for roll.. I DO need it after all, so it is 'mine?' No im not a prat. Do i get angry and ragequit cuz he got a scroll 5 min before? No. It was just him 'winning' 2 invisible rolls. I offer him a fair deal on said scroll cuz I want/need it. He wins. I win.

Really what is the issue. I'm fine with people seeing i got it(Let them offer a deal and say grats, and also show that stuff does drop) but like all keep saying, they not 'raid loot, bound to you' they are just another sellable/tradeable item.

IMO, and have always thought this, the scrolls should be in the chests in epics, N OT mobs. Should also be a chest with one random scroll (from that pack) for optionals if the optionals are completed in epics(Give a reason to do them)

[EustaceTrevelyan]

We seem to be in a transitional period, with old habits conflicting with new mechanics. But really, it's no different than any other non-bound loot from a chest now: if you can't use it, you can sell/trade it for something you DO need. Guild dynamics, of course, entirely different, ppl will prolly just give stuff to the guildie that's wanted it the longest, or that's in group.

This is actually better than the binding stuff you have to roll for in the chest; since it's tradeable anytime, reduces the need for drama.

[LookingForABentoBox]

To all of you who support a second roll, if you pulled a flawless red dragon scale in epic von, and you were not planning on making red dragon scale armor, would you put it up for roll? If you would not put it up for roll, why do you feel it is not a contradiction to your point?

[ORIGINALBAG0]

Gods, we sure do love loot drama on Argo. I understand they changed the way loot functions on us, but they did it because we spent so much time complaining about the old way. The thing that gets me is that people are complaining about how it affects THEM. What I'm upset about in this situation is how it affects my guildies. I'm already sick of people getting butthurt about what I do with the loot I get in chests, and now I have to worry about your feelings regarding what's already in my possesion?

In our guild, we pass loot like there's no tomorrow. But, if even ONE pug is in the party, stuff goes up for roll. Yesterday, I gave up several items in my end-game loot layout so I could give a guildie who needs it more a shot at it. I am fed up with this. I understand everyone in the party deserves a shot at loot, but my good friend and guild cleric got several of my toons to 20 and flagged for everything, which is a much bigger deal than begging for a true seeing and keeping power attack on so you can't even hit the djinn.

This was raid loot, but the same applies to scrolls. Except, with scrolls, it is not in a chest and it is not bound, so everone is gonna continue to be super shady. Anyone can justify keeping every single scroll that drops to them and rolling on all the others as long as we coninue to spout off this "need before greed" BS. What we should be doing is deferring to the group leader in every individual instance. If the group leader says "guildie A needs X scroll/seal/shard/item" at the beginning of the quest and I pull it, I'm gonna give it up nine times out of ten. It's their run, so I will defer to them. Need before greed still helps the greedy way more than it helps the needy.

[Templarion]

Personally...

You looted it, it's yours.

However, if it's something you aren't looking to build please offer it to the party. I'll do the same.

Yep. But if I was lucky enough to get it, I ask cash for it and sell it to who ever pays most.

[Paleus]

Scrolls can serve a few general functions.

1) Upgrade your equipment to epic
2) Be converted into plat or other tradeable goods (ie my scroll in exchange for yours)
3) Be converted into good will of others (ie letting them roll on it or giving it to someone that expressed a need)

If a scroll drops these are the decisions a player gets to make of their own free will. If you dont like the decision they made then dont run with them. Everyone is free to act how they want placing value on what they want. If they can find people to play with then thats usually a benefit, if they cant then thats usually a detriment

[transtemporal]

I agree Sal. I don't know about the other points but the first sums it up adequately: a second roll is redundant.

In fact, agreeing to a 2nd roll at the start of the quest is fair too... but if thats the case, then I'm going to encourage everyone in the quest/raid to roll on it because everybody deserves a fair shot at it.

[transtemporal]

But Yaga, it is just like what drops in chests for people. the loot is randomly generated and assigned to players. just like chests the scrolls arent bound you can trade them, they have a market value outside of chests. I think every scroll should have been rolled on before U8 but they werent.
The flip side of your arguement is that people just want loot that the game assigned to them, the scale analogy its well. scales are rare nonbound and and every one wishes they would get a chance to roll on scales if they had a chance. the new system promotes generosity because I can now give a scroll to someone who needs it if i choose or put it up for roll if i already have every scroll i need, the old system promoted greed and lying, I have been on several runs where scrolls dropped and were looted yet no one had the scroll in their inventory and its so annoying to see.

Well said Jond.

[phalaeo]

In Our Guild, We Pass Loot Like There's No Tomorrow. But, If Even One Pug Is In The Party, Stuff Goes Up For Roll. Yesterday, I Gave Up Several Items In My End-game Loot Layout So I Could Give A Guildie Who Needs It More A Shot At It. I Am Fed Up With This. I Understand Everyone In The Party Deserves A Shot At Loot, But My Good Friend And Guild Cleric Got Several Of My Toons To 20 And Flagged For Everything, Which Is A Much Bigger Deal Than Begging For A True Seeing And Keeping Power Attack On So You Can't Even Hit The Djinn.

<3

[KannyaAryien]

Gods, we sure do love loot drama on Argo. I understand they changed the way loot functions on us, but they did it because we spent so much time complaining about the old way. The thing that gets me is that people are complaining about how it affects THEM. What I'm upset about in this situation is how it affects my guildies. I'm already sick of people getting butthurt about what I do with the loot I get in chests, and now I have to worry about your feelings regarding what's already in my possesion?

In our guild, we pass loot like there's no tomorrow. But, if even ONE pug is in the party, stuff goes up for roll. Yesterday, I gave up several items in my end-game loot layout so I could give a guildie who needs it more a shot at it. I am fed up with this. I understand everyone in the party deserves a shot at loot, but my good friend and guild cleric got several of my toons to 20 and flagged for everything, which is a much bigger deal than begging for a true seeing and keeping power attack on so you can't even hit the djinn.

This was raid loot, but the same applies to scrolls. Except, with scrolls, it is not in a chest and it is not bound, so everone is gonna continue to be super shady. Anyone can justify keeping every single scroll that drops to them and rolling on all the others as long as we coninue to spout off this "need before greed" BS. What we should be doing is deferring to the group leader in every individual instance. If the group leader says "guildie A needs X scroll/seal/shard/item" at the beginning of the quest and I pull it, I'm gonna give it up nine times out of ten. It's their run, so I will defer to them. Need before greed still helps the greedy way more than it helps the needy.

Yup...this is basically how we do things...we're not a greedy bunch, and a lot of us put stuff up for roll. I personally hate that we've lost a bunch of stuff to other people that guildies could have used. But because someone somewhere will raise a big huge stink about it, it goes up for roll.

[Shmuel]

my 2cents- With the new system, if you get it it is yours. do whatever you want with it. I may keep, pass, put up for roll to all or only to people who can use it, or other things depending on my mood. In general, the system has rolled for us and assumed everyone wanted a roll. this is probably a good and fair change to make

[transtemporal]

I think what we're going to see with this new system is more people taking scrolls they don't need to craft, but that they need for trade bait for the scroll they need to craft.

Just to play devils advocate for a moment, what makes trade any less of a legitimate action? This happened in the old system too and we blasted people for it but now that I look back on it, was it any worse than people rolling on scrolls for their 2nd, 3rd, 4th esos? Or second set of dual whatevers? Or 2nd, 3rd abishai set scrolls? Not just the scroll for the 2nd individual piece, but the whole **** set?

[transtemporal]

Yup...this is basically how we do things...we're not a greedy bunch, and a lot of us put stuff up for roll. I personally hate that we've lost a bunch of stuff to other people that guildies could have used. But because someone somewhere will raise a big huge stink about it, it goes up for roll.

So the only reason you put stuff up for roll is the threat of bad press? You can do better than that Kann.

[ddoer]

Just to play devils advocate for a moment, what makes trade any less of a legitimate action? This happened in the old system too and we blasted people for it but now that I look back on it, was it any worse than people rolling on scrolls for their 2nd, 3rd, 4th esos? Or second set of dual whatevers? Or 2nd, 3rd abishai set scrolls? Not just the scroll for the 2nd individual piece, but the whole **** set?

I got my ESoS very long time ago and since then, i gave up scrolls and seal after that, and also didn't roll on shard. However, I'm a bit regret as people get more than one esos nowadays.

I think "need before greed" is just BS. Why you need your first esos more than my 2nd esos(esp when other people got 2 esos already)?

[Merlocke]

To the folks who are for a second roll.......when you run shroud will you put your Large Scales up for roll?

I don't see a difference.

[Osharan_Tregarth]

Well, this is what we're going to be doing for our guild runs. We'll be running this way for a bit, and then maybe changing it up later on if we need to adjust something.

One scroll per run is what you get to keep....
Once you pull more than one scroll, the other(s) go up for roll. If another scroll gets put up for roll that you want more, and you win the dice roll, you have to give up the original scroll for roll.

Seal/Shards
You get to win a roll on one shard and one seal per run. You can pull as many as the game gives you out of the chests. If you pull 3 seals out of chests in the beginning of the run, you are still free to roll on your one seal and shard later on.

[melkor1702]

Well, this is what we're going to be doing for our guild runs. We'll be running this way for a bit, and then maybe changing it up later on if we need to adjust something.

One scroll per run is what you get to keep....
Once you pull more than one scroll, the other(s) go up for roll. If another scroll gets put up for roll that you want more, and you win the dice roll, you have to give up the original scroll for roll.

Seal/Shards
You get to win a roll on one shard and one seal per run. You can pull as many as the game gives you out of the chests. If you pull 3 seals out of chests in the beginning of the run, you are still free to roll on your one seal and shard later on.

Reading through this thread it would appear that not all of your guildmates agree with this.

[Osharan_Tregarth]

Reading through this thread it would appear that not all of your guildmates agree with this.

Probably not, but that's what the officers agreed on during our meeting today. We'll see how things play out. Until we had a chance to sit down and talk things out, we were telling people to continue rolling on all scrolls. That's probably part of the disagreement you see here.

[melkor1702]

Probably not, but that's what the officers agreed on during our meeting today. We'll see how things play out. Until we had a chance to sit down and talk things out, we were telling people to continue rolling on all scrolls. That's probably part of the disagreement you see here.

Well I think it's a good method and it's much the way most of the Epics I run with CK goes anyway.

[transtemporal]

I got my ESoS very long time ago and since then, i gave up scrolls and seal after that, and also didn't roll on shard. However, I'm a bit regret as people get more than one esos nowadays.

I think "need before greed" is just BS. Why you need your first esos more than my 2nd esos(esp when other people got 2 esos already)?

Exactly correct. I have no problem with people having 2 or 4 or 10 esos or whatever epic item. My problem is with people saying that one use is more legitimate than the other as in "rolling on x scroll so I can craft x number 4 is completely legitimate" but "rolling on x scroll for trade is greedy!"