Holy Unarmed Warrior 18 Paladin/2 Monk

[WolfSpirit]

Any Build specialists got any good advice on how best to improve this Build I've been wanting to TR into?
I'm going for Unarmed Wraps and Fully Centered at all times. (As it would be a TR from Ranger->Monk already -> Holy Warrior I've all the Centered Gear already) I would like to have fit in Zen Archery to strengthen the Archery background, but unsure what to swap out and thats not super important anyway. Decent AC and Excellent (not top of course) DPS with zeal/smites etc. I do NOT want this warrior to hit like a wet Noodle! Most of the focus should be on that dps!

Please, experts only. I don't really need silly advice from new players. I've played a long time and only need advice from people who have played DDO for a LONG time and know the ins and outs of this Online Rendition of D&D... (I do understand actual good advice when I see it however so if you've something great I'm missing then by all means...) ;-)
Thanks for understanding!

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.3 (Pre-Release)
DDO Character Planner Home Page
Holy Unarmed Warrior
Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Elf Male
(18 Paladin \ 2 Monk) 
Hit Points: 298
Spell Points: 299 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 22
Reflex: 20
Will: 18
              Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    24
Dexterity            16                    19
Constitution         10                    12
Intelligence          9                    10
Wisdom               11                    14
Charisma             16                    21
Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
 
              Starting          Feat/Enhancement
             Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               3                     4
Bluff                 3                     5
Concentration         4                    25
Diplomacy             3                     6
Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
Haggle                3                     5
Heal                  0                     2
Hide                  3                     4
Intimidate            5                    28
Jump                  6                    10
Listen                0                     2
Move Silently         3                     4
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                     0
Search               -1                     0
Spot                  0                     4
Swim                  3                     7
Tumble                4                     5
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a
 
Level 1 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Sorcerer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Breezes
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Candles
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Pebbles
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Puddles
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Kama
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Shuriken
Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves
Feat: (Automatic) Flurry of Blows
Feat: (Automatic) Half-Elven Keen Senses
Feat: (Automatic) Half-Elven Mixed Heritage
Feat: (Automatic) Half-Elven Social Graces (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Handaxe
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Club
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Dagger
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Heavy Crossbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Light Crossbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Quarterstaff
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Unarmed
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Unarmed Strike
 
Level 2 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Good
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Smite Evil
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
 
Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Disciple of the Fist
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Grace
Feat: (Automatic) Lay on Hands
 
Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
Feat: (Automatic) Meditation
 
Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Courage
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Health
Feat: (Automatic) Fear Immunity
 
Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Warrior of the Wild
Feat: (Automatic) Turn Undead
 
Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
 
Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Remove Disease
 
Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
 
Level 10 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
 
Level 11 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
 
Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
 
Level 13 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
 
Level 14 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
 
Level 15 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
 
Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
 
Level 17 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
 
Level 18 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
 
Level 19 (Paladin)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
 
Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Enhancement: Undying Call
Enhancement: Follower of the Undying Court
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Dexterity I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Way of the Elegant Crane I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice II
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice III
Enhancement: Paladin Redemption I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma III
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II

[WolfSpirit]

??

[Keybreaker]

Biggest problem is you're way too squishie to be a melee dps. Take full enhancements in racial and class toughness, but much more importantly redo your stats.

Dump INT and WIS... you need as much CON as possible, but not less than 16. Decide whether you want Div Might 3, or if you can live with Div Might 2, and go with the least amount of CHA possible. Your tome-boosted dex need only be 17, so 15 to start, or ideally 14 if you can secure a +3 dex tome.

A paladin's greatest liability is MAD (Multiple Attribute Depedency)... CON is not a dump stat for any class, def not pal, and starting with 10 con is nearly dumping it.

Also helf is a poor race choice... Human, Dorf, WF, Horc would all be better in terms of stronger, tougher, and more DPS.

[sicilianight]

The main problem I see with your build is that you want to fight unarmed. Monk lvl 2 only does 1d6. Monk lvl20 does 2d10. With monk past life feats you move up to 1d8+1 which is pretty weak even with ubber wraps and TOD rings. You will get some pretty good extra dps from KoC but you would get that with any weapon. You could easily drop the 2 past life feats and take whirling steel and use longsword and stay centered with twice the crit range. Of course none of that matters since the guy playing the toon makes a weaker toon better than a great "on paper" toon. Have fun!

[WolfSpirit]

I DEF understand the NEVER dump Con thing. I've preached it for Years to unexperienced players with Wizs with 80 HP at lv 16 or whatnot.
However, for an experienced player that knows how to avoid much of what is coming around. Or flees 50 feet at 10% while drinking pots, (depending on situation) then returns... Or has a High enough AC... Or enough feats to take extra Toughnesses and making sure to get every HP item/draconic Feat, prob combo of several of these things. Etc etc. Con can be kept low and still be playable for a small, select group of players. My question is, since math is NOT my strong suit, Can I get my AC into the High 50s Low 60s without major raid buffs, (which is where my experience shows where I can avoid MOST normal trash mob hits). That is also why I have a small bit of Wisdom, to take advantage of Monk AC. However, As I have not done any calculations I do not know if its enough or not to make a difference. Same for the 1 pt of Intel, to get some concentration though not sure if that is even worth it. prob not or can wait till 7 for a +2.
Truth is I'll prob have to drop a couple points off STR to help shore up the AC to make the low HP work better...
I went with Helf for Sorc Dill, certainly not needed either but using Wiz scrolls at like a lv 10 Sorc or so is not a small thing and with such few skill points UMD is out of the question.
So that was my thinking on those subjects, but as I said, I do not know the math of it. Was only taking approximations.
Anyone have any math/first hand knowledge to show where things need to be to accomplish my objectives? Or perhaps where I can expect my AC and final HP/Saves would be geared out with Raid (but not epics yet) Gear?
I know the unarmed isn't the greatest choice, but with stunning blow/Stun 10 items and other great wraps i have, I can stop and kill much very quickly. How much slower would the attack speed be for this build vs pure monk? Too much? Forget the lv 20 Monk Damage Die, Not going for that. Looking at Past life-Monk and Jit-ki-thingy bracers in Con Stance always. Is it THAT much of a difference? d10 (I think) from wraps with ToD rings and past life/bracers vs other Paladins using d8 from Longswords (d10 for greensteel) and one better step on crit range? So many variables, so many questions...

[Steveohio]

3 things here that stick out.

#1. Your con is too low. I dont care how good you are, 2build points into dex for another 1/2 an AC and reflex save doesn't compare to another 20 ac

#2. Why stay centered? I'm not so sure handwraps are going to be the best DPs for you. I get the 2 monk for saves/evasion, but centered, what exactly are you gaining here? 25% healing amp in fire stance or 1d10 fists in earth stance? Neither of which is good enough to even bother stay centered, Doubt you want to take 3 lvls of monk to get light finishers, but without that, and trust me i hate to beat the drums, but go with kopesh, your DPS will be that much better.

#3. Ranger past life feat gives you a few casts of barkskin. Are you really even thinking about using a feat to get that pile of dung? 2 past lives and you can't afford a few potions, or rely on rangers in groups? Seems like an awful feat to select on a paladin, whom needs a few extra to begin with.

[Calebro]

A Paladin's DPS comes from crits. They are much more dependent on crits to achieve maximum DPS compared to other melee types.
Handwraps have a horrible crit profile.

You say: "I do NOT want this warrior to hit like a wet Noodle!" but that's exactly what you'll be doing compared to other Paladins.

[k1ngp1n]

Hmm... *scratches chin* *Reads thread again* Hmm....

Handwrap Pallies are fine, but IMO not with a 18/2 setup. Deeper monk needed to hold up, and you should be gaining some huge amp and AC bonus (which this build has neither.) In addition, a lot of the preceding solutions are, honestly, horrible.

If you wish to build this concept, here are my thoughts, without knowing your gear state and assuming a 36 pointer:

Suggested starting stats:
Str: 16
Dex: 15
Con: 15
Int: 8
Wis: 8
Cha: 16

If you happen to be able to acquire a +3 CHA tome, then it becomes:
Str: 16
Dex: 15
Con: 13
Int: 8
Wis: 8
Cha: 17

Human Adaptability into STR and CON.

Feats:

Lose Stunning Blow: your DC will suck horribly.
Lose Ranger Past Life: your AC will suck horribly regardless.

Slot Extend, your choice of Maximize (hjeals!) or a second Toughness. Perhaps weapon focus - it cane be rather useful in Epics as pallies tend to have some to-hit issues on the big boys. Not always, though - you'll have to evaluate that yourself based on your play preferences.

For your Dilletante - lose Sorc, take Favored Soul. Enjoy your hjeal scrolls.

Skills: Intim, fill the rest into concentration. Your ki strikes are pretty limited in usefulness to banging extra INT to get more concentration is a rather waste of character build points.

[Zacheal]

I hate to say it as I love these types of build generally but using handwraps on a 18 pal is a waste.
You would be better off using a Rhals might. At least it has a x3 crit. +6 str and various other goodies.

I love /monk builds, I have a hard time not adding monk to all my builds. But this isnt really working to your strengths even with a past lives in monk and fighter you wont do as good DPS as you could with other weapons

[WolfSpirit]

/sigh

[Kinerd]

I think it would improve your DPS if you dropped rank III of Courage of Good and picked up Divine Sacrifice II, and you would lose pretty much nothing.

At 19 Dex 14 Wis unbuffed, your AC would probably look like:

10 base
+7 Dex
+5 Wis
+5 Armor
+5 Deflection
+2 Aura
+1 Monk
+5 Natural
+4 Shield clickie/wand
(due to already low DPS will assume you won't have handwraps of parrying, so probably no insight.)

=

+44

Plus whatever Dodge items, guild stuff, and other buffs you could get. At level 20 I think it would be tough to make that worthwhile without a lot of buffs.

[glowbug]

Are you wanting to go paladin for the past life or compleationist?

36 point pallies can rock, but this build really isn't going to work very well for what you expect it to do

STR is too low to do good non crit DPS, even with unarmed strike

Crit range is too low to really capitalize on pally smite bonuses

STR is too low to be a reliable stunner, even with stunning wraps

AC won't matter, almost never does after level 10 anyways

if you took WSS you might be able to bring this build to 70% of a fighters DPS or so, if you choose to go with handwraps it will be 50% or less probably

sorry

[NeutronStar]

I DEF understand the NEVER dump Con thing. I've preached it for Years to unexperienced players with Wizs with 80 HP at lv 16 or whatnot.
However, for an experienced player that knows how to avoid much of what is coming around. Or flees 50 feet at 10% while drinking pots, (depending on situation) then returns... Or has a High enough AC... Or enough feats to take extra Toughnesses and making sure to get every HP item/draconic Feat, prob combo of several of these things. Etc etc. Con can be kept low and still be playable for a small, select group of players.

CON...is...NEVER...a...dump...stat. EVER!

[Meat-Head]

Reocmmend deeper monk. Lookup the divine phoenix build. http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...divine+phoenix

That's the best build I've seen so far for a DPS mostly pally monk splash using unarmed.


If you want DPS on an 18 pally, you need to be using Khopeshes or Scimitars prolly. Rapiers even. Not fists. IF you go higher monk, it can work. Use monk past life PLUS garments of equil to pump your base fist dice by 2 steps.


Try to remember: 18+ Pally DPS = Crits. Fists=/=crits.

[Seamonkeysix]

For decent DPS and what it sounds like you want to do, I would seriously consider a
12 Monk/6 paladin (Hunter of the Dead)/2 fighter split with a cleric or fvs dilly.

What you get:

2d6 Damage
Fighter Haste Boost
Loads of healing amp
5 extra feats for all kinds of goodies
Improved Evasion
Abundant Step
Shintao Smites (if you wanna go that route)
Human versatility
(Cleric or fvs Dilly) No fail rezzes and near no-fail heal scrolls

Overall, I think you would be way more self-sufficient, sturdy and happier.