"Tainted" creatures defined correctly?

[Quarterling]

The Shintao Monk's prestige abilities are only supposed to work on "tainted" creatures. This includes undead, aberrations, and extraplanar creatures that are not lawful outsiders. Though honestly, how can an extraplanar creature not be considered an outsider? If there is an example of such creature, I would like to know.

So I'm going through the vale and doing some slayers, and I find out that apparently orthons and bearded devils count as tainted creatures. How can this be? All devils (or most at least) are considered lawful and therefore should not be effected by my jade strike and smite tainted creature abilities, yet I can use those no problem on them.

[TPICKRELL]

The Shintao Monk's prestige abilities are only supposed to work on "tainted" creatures. This includes undead, aberrations, and extraplanar creatures that are not lawful outsiders. Though honestly, how can an extraplanar creature not be considered an outsider? If there is an example of such creature, I would like to know.

So I'm going through the vale and doing some slayers, and I find out that apparently orthons and bearded devils count as tainted creatures. How can this be? All devils (or most at least) are considered lawful and therefore should not be effected by my jade strike and smite tainted creature abilities, yet I can use those no problem on them.

Despite the alignment, devils and orthons are classified by DDO as Evil Outsiders so they are tainted for Shintao purposes.

[stainer]

In DDO, for the purposes of the Shintao PrE, Lawful Outsiders = Maruts and one or two other monsters. Also, for the purposes of the Shintao PrE, Lawful Outsiders ≠ Devils.

I didn't know that. Thanks Arkat!

[NeutronStar]

I think for the purposes of the Shintao PrE, Lawful Outsiders = Lawful Neutral Outsiders.

[jamkriz]

I think for the purposes of the Shintao PrE, Lawful Outsiders = Lawful Neutral Outsiders.

i.e. Marut

[Angelus_dead]

The Shintao Monk's prestige abilities are only supposed to work on "tainted" creatures.

The tainted definitions are currently applying incorrectly. Extraplanar creatures are supposed to be tainted even if you visit them on their home planes, but they are not. This can be tested with Fiendish Troglodytes on the battlefield of Shavarath.

Though honestly, how can an extraplanar creature not be considered an outsider? If there is an example of such creature, I would like to know.

The word "Outsider" has a specific technical meaning in DDO which is separate from "outsider". Many kinds of extraplanar things are not Outsiders, such as Elementals and also some constructs, reptiles, giants, abberations, and magical beasts.

All devils (or most at least) are considered lawful and therefore should not be effected by my jade strike and smite tainted creature abilities, yet I can use those no problem on them.

The Shintao description is incorrect in this regard. Instead of saying "Lawful Outsiders" aren't tainted, it should say that creatures with the Lawful subtype aren't tainted (regardless of if they are Outsiders or not). The correct and intended consequence of that clause is that a Marut is not tainted, despite being an extraplanar construct.

i.e. Marut

Maruts are not Lawful Outsiders, because they're not Outsiders.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

The tainted definitions are currently applying incorrectly. Extraplanar creatures are supposed to be tainted even if you visit them on their home planes, but they are not. This can be tested with Fiendish Troglodytes on the battlefield of Shavarath.


The word "Outsider" has a specific technical meaning in DDO which is separate from "outsider". Many kinds of extraplanar things are not Outsiders, such as Elementals and also some constructs, reptiles, giants, abberations, and magical beasts.


The Shintao description is incorrect in this regard. Instead of saying "Lawful Outsiders" aren't tainted, it should say that creatures with the Lawful subtype aren't tainted (regardless of if they are Outsiders or not). The correct and intended consequence of that clause is that a Marut is not tainted, despite being an extraplanar construct.


Maruts are not Lawful Outsiders, because they're not Outsiders.

Ok...now I am really confused on what it works on and what it doesn't.
Or what it is suppose to work on.
In DDO.


I assumed, that Devils would be considered Lawful Outsiders. But it works on them.

I'm not sure what Fiendish creatures are in DDO. Banishing works on fiendish cratures (on Eberron....usually)

And I thought I had used Jade Strike on Thieflings in Amrath quests.

Guess I hadn't noticed if it worked on fiendish monsters or not.

It works on Bezikera(sp).

I assumed it would not work on Maruts. Which is the only Lawful(neutral) Outsider that I think we have in the game.

It seems that it does work on Quori creatures, but their saves are very high.
(I'm also interested in what exactly works on Quori creatures BTW)

Anyway, not sure if Jade Strike is WAI or not. Or exactly what it should work on from the vague description.

[Quarterling]

Yeah, I wish the devs would just give us a complete list since they made so many changes from pen-and-paper rules... :/

[Sirslapemsack]

Creatures affected=

Undead, EVIL outsiders (orthons, devils(arry, sulu, nythirios, horoth, combined abishai, little abishai), horned devils, demons(thrash hounds, renders of all kinds, demon queen), Djinn, efreeti, beholders, mindflayers.

These are all examples that i know for a fact fall in the realm of "tainted" Also, i put abishai in with devils but i cant remember if hes a demon or devil.

Outsiders it doesnt work on=

Mephits, maruts, eladrin(running with the devils) I think thats it really.

I agree with wording should have been changed cause pretty much it only effects evil outsiders. The key wording is non lawful though because monks are considered lawful outsider and you shouldnt be able to use these abilities against fellow monks. Thats the main reason it is worded non-lawful outsiders.


If i missed any creatures that you know for a fact thats affected please add them.

[QuantumFX]

It should (But doesn’t) work on tieflings. Just because they’re Native Outsiders doesn’t mean they’re not tainted. (Though, in the same vein of “Um… uh… they’re phasing into the floor… for some reason!”, I look forward to a lame excuse that all tieflings are shoved into an Altar of Devastation with a Stone of Cleansing at birth.)