Butterhound

[Original]

Butterheal Legend Gimped 16 cleric 2 monk with 380ish hp's.
Tanked the Hound on normal... what has happened to this server?

Please guys and gals step up.... if this continues I am going back to LOTR.

Held her aggro from guards until she was almost rdy to strike... gives me some ideas for soloing. Will need more enegry bursts.


EDIT: FYI cleric past life feat heals can be cast while under affects of bees.

[Acehole31]

In my opinion, a lot of people stopped pugging and began running ONLY with their guild thereby leaving the newer players to figure things out for themselves with nobody except one another to get by with. With nobody teaching them, giving them tips, showing them the ropes, they don't learn to step their game up, to be the best they can, to improve. Thus, we now have many people who keep silent when doing a quest (or raid) for the first time instead of speaking up, because the few times they may indeed have played alongside a veteran, said vet pitched a fit and gave new player attitude simply for it being their first time and speaking up.

Long story short, we got a gap between experienced and inexperienced, and there are too few willing to bridge the gap. Thus, the clerics wind up tanking the hound. Thus, the barbarians don't know to take DR or get MOAR hp and get one-shotted by a meteor swarm in The Shroud. Thus, Stealer of Souls has the healer recall out as soon as the quest is finished, leaving the rest of the party members without hjealz for Sor'jek. You get the idea. :P

You asked what happened to the server..I personally believe that's part of what's going on.

[TheDearLeader]

You asked what happened to the server..I personally believe that's part of what's going on.

I didn't know you posted on the forums!

/wave

[Tobril]

It’s a known fact that giant eyeless dogs love the taste of butter.

[Acehole31]

I didn't know you posted on the forums!

/wave

Only when I have something to say. :P

/wave

[Ilindith]

QQ moar

[Maxwell1380]

Personally I think sometimes the vets are to blame a bit for this lack of self reliance...stick with me a second. We have spoiled the new players in that they have come to rely on someone holding their hand and coaching them through a quest they don't know.

When these quests came out, we didn't know what we were doing either, but we had no one to show us the easy way out. We figured it out because we had to. I think that has made most of the vets on this server pretty **** self reliant and inventive when it comes to new things. Sadly that element is missing from the new generation of players on this server because we haven't made them stand on their own two feet sooner. MOST new players are spoiled and just plain crippled without a vet to lead them through, and call us a bunch of elitists if we can't be bothered to show a player how to run through delera's for the 1000th time in our lives.

We made this problem!

[jojje_b]

i'd say its a feat to have done this and it shows that ur a great player with a great toon. the problem is that when stuff like reavers, tod, vod, adq(heck, even eadq) are solo'd this easily by so many that probably means that the raids/quests in this game is becoming too easy too fast. i say we need lots of harder content with some great rewards to motivate people to try. ive had lots of fun in epic chronoscope but lately even that has begun to become a routine... but at least you need a good group who knows what they are doing to complete it

[pSINNa]

Really not sure what the complaint is here, is it that no-one else wanted to tank so your torc/con opp wearing TR clonk had to step into the brink to do the job?

Is is that you solo'd the raid (whether you were solo or not is not mentioned in the OP as some other posters seem to have assumed) and because your glacial bracer wearing character was able to keep aggro off a cold shield using past life feats to stay upright till the guard wore ole big dawg down makes that raid too easy which you'd like to see changed?

Before the old players rule, newer players are hopeless brigade begin the same old tirade we'd better clarify what the actual issue is here maybe.

I've got popcorn, and i'm interested to see which it is.

Coit out~

[Wurmheart]

Personally I think sometimes the vets are to blame a bit for this lack of self reliance...stick with me a second. We have spoiled the new players in that they have come to rely on someone holding their hand and coaching them through a quest they don't know.

When these quests came out, we didn't know what we were doing either, but we had no one to show us the easy way out. We figured it out because we had to. I think that has made most of the vets on this server pretty **** self reliant and inventive when it comes to new things. Sadly that element is missing from the new generation of players on this server because we haven't made them stand on their own two feet sooner. MOST new players are spoiled and just plain crippled without a vet to lead them through, and call us a bunch of elitists if we can't be bothered to show a player how to run through delera's for the 1000th time in our lives.

We made this problem!

you are right to a certain degree, but yet i cant agree with your statement

if experienced players run a group they want it to sucseed, well everyone does
new players often want to sucseed but also want/need to learn what is needed for the quest/raid

the problem gets worse with the ddo raids/quests being screwed up quite easy, 1 npc dies, turn the wrong lever, get locked in a room etc etc and quest fails.
you can't expect the newest recruits to know all this right away period, so what most people do is leave the newbs behind and look only for experienced players

this creates 2 problems
1:newbies need to learn from youtube/crafting zip guide/wiki/forums

not information is still up to date, wiki is sometimes wrong and certain people give the wrong advice
not to mention most of this information is hard to find. (forum search is worst search function i ever saw, crafting zip isnt often mentioned or linked)

which often leads to poor informed new players, if they took the time to do research
(A lot of the new players don't seem to do research tough or try to ask most things, but you can't really do anything about a lack of willing to learn can you?)


2:
new players dont get into groups if they tell they're new and being honest, if they're dishonest they can gain much more with the downside of potentially screwing up raids/quests.

at which point the learn less, then when they have a guide or someone explaining a few things, which might improve the situation further.




tough, i am pretty much pro guides and pro research, im sure others will have different standpoints.
and i can understand that you want to let them learn themself, but this will often mean they fail a quest way more often and i think most won't be to thrilled by that....

[Pallol_One-Eye]

Butterheal Legend Gimped 16 cleric 2 monk with 380ish hp's.
Tanked the Hound on normal... what has happened to this server?

Please guys and gals step up.... if this continues I am going back to LOTR.

Held her aggro from guards until she was almost rdy to strike... gives me some ideas for soloing. Will need more enegry bursts.


EDIT: FYI cleric past life feat heals can be cast while under affects of bees.

This

You are welcome for the heals Bee-boy

[mws2970]

Butterheal Legend Gimped 16 cleric 2 monk with 380ish hp's.
Tanked the Hound on normal...

SS or it didn't happen! :P

[Phidius]

Personally I think sometimes the vets are to blame a bit for this lack of self reliance...stick with me a second. We have spoiled the new players in that they have come to rely on someone holding their hand and coaching them through a quest they don't know...

I take exception to this. I have never helped a new player complete anything, and I am extremely offended by your implication that I did.

[mws2970]

I take exception to this. I have never helped a new player complete anything, and I am extremely offended by your implication that I did.

But some nice WF Wizzy reconstructed you twice just the other day in the Necro when you ended up in the bar there. :P (hmmm.....I wonder who it might have been? LOL) Time to pay it forward, bro!

[Pallol_One-Eye]

SS or it didn't happen! :P

Sadly, it did happen. Xxyyzz or whatever instantly aggro'd on my cleric first, then Butter.

I let the bees kill me, got a rez and kept Butter alive while his guards were pi$$in mama dog off.

When the "tank" finally got the puppies on Xx, she still kept her aggro solidly on Butter. Was funny as the pups tore her up and down quickly.

Finally Butter died just as the "Time to Strike" message popped up.

A well done and interesting run...kudos to you old friend.......now keep your nose to the grindstone and stay the hell away from LoTR.

[Maxwell1380]

I take exception to this. I have never helped a new player complete anything, and I am extremely offended by your implication that I did.

Exception Noted Phid! You are excluded from my comment

[Chai]

In my opinion, a lot of people stopped pugging and began running ONLY with their guild thereby leaving the newer players to figure things out for themselves with nobody except one another to get by with. With nobody teaching them, giving them tips, showing them the ropes, they don't learn to step their game up, to be the best they can, to improve. Thus, we now have many people who keep silent when doing a quest (or raid) for the first time instead of speaking up, because the few times they may indeed have played alongside a veteran, said vet pitched a fit and gave new player attitude simply for it being their first time and speaking up.

Long story short, we got a gap between experienced and inexperienced, and there are too few willing to bridge the gap. Thus, the clerics wind up tanking the hound. Thus, the barbarians don't know to take DR or get MOAR hp and get one-shotted by a meteor swarm in The Shroud. Thus, Stealer of Souls has the healer recall out as soon as the quest is finished, leaving the rest of the party members without hjealz for Sor'jek. You get the idea. :P

You asked what happened to the server..I personally believe that's part of what's going on.

Yeap exactly.

Furthermore, its many of the same people who DO attempt to PUG once in a while who will maon about the same skill level disparity gap their actions helped to create.

We are now in that generation of this MMO where many of the people who put up with myself and other people who learned around the same time I did as a newbie are now seeing the result of how many of us second generation VETS are willing to pony up and teach the third generation newbies. Many of the people I put up with nowdays while they face the same learning curve have had the impression hammered into them by other vets that this isnt a game, and its treated more like work, needs to be done as fast as possible and farmed for maximum XP output in little time. By the time they land in one of my runs, they dont want to speak up about not knowing the quest, etc, because they feel to do so would just gain them more of the same. The experienced players run off and complete the quests, and the newbies learn nothing from it.

The end result of course, is the same play level disparity we see in the game currently between experienced and newer players.

[mws2970]

Sadly, it did happen.

NEVER! Butter is a piker! LOL :P

[LordPiglet]

Yeap exactly.

Furthermore, its many of the same people who DO attempt to PUG once in a while who will maon about the same skill level disparity gap their actions helped to create.

We are now in that generation of this MMO where many of the people who put up with myself and other people who learned around the same time I did as a newbie are now seeing the result of how many of us second generation VETS are willing to pony up and teach the third generation newbies. Many of the people I put up with nowdays while they face the same learning curve have had the impression hammered into them by other vets that this isnt a game, and its treated more like work, needs to be done as fast as possible and farmed for maximum XP output in little time. By the time they land in one of my runs, they dont want to speak up about not knowing the quest, etc, because they feel to do so would just gain them more of the same. The experienced players run off and complete the quests, and the newbies learn nothing from it.

The end result of course, is the same play level disparity we see in the game currently between experienced and newer players.

Largely, you get into groups that are either great, or just full of fail.

I was in a 93 minute von 5 not too long ago. I don't know it all that well, but keep learning more and more about it. Some how the wheels were set wrong, so while people are try to get stuff done to correct the issue and move forward, 1/2 the party is afk piking at the door. This was an at level run, I'd farmed it a couple times with some other TR's and our completions were in the 20 minute range.

It's not always that people won't teach someone the quest, it's a simple as some people don't want to learn the quest. They want the completion handed to them, especially if they're running with TR's. Now that I'm running von, I'm seeing it on Von 5, I see it on dq pre-raid all the time, I see it on Titan pre-raid.

Personally, I don't think I've ever had a problem when I'm trying to learn a quest. I solo it, or if need be, I'll send a tell to the leader before I hit the lfm. I few times, I've sent that tell and gotten an invite right away from the leader.

[Original]

Last night I did a Delera's on a baby Butter.

No one in group knew me... they where a bunch of noobs.
They started talking and I kept quiet.
They where talking about how they join LFM's and ask where is the quest at? or is flagging required? and they get booted with people laughing and like omg where to this people come from.

I am guilty of this, but I told them once you run a quest 1000times, patience is very thin.
It is a problem that I see never changing... unless theres a group of people willing to teach these kids.
Cause you all know, I sure the hell aint :P