Tukaw...Wizard version?

[CrankVulcan]

How would a 17/2/1 wiz/rogue/fighter do compaired to a 16/2/2 tukaw build? I know you lose the chr. bonus to saves but with insightful reflexes, reflex saves should be a piece of cake. It just seems that the free meta magic feats would be awesome on a build like this. What is so great about the sorc/pally combo besides the saves? Would a 17/2/1 work? Would it played the same way?

[Droconos]

While that type of build (battlemage) works very well, the problem is the difference in cool down time. Tukaw can spam reconstructs every 2 seconds. Wizards, that is more than double (5secs) the time, so the two builds play very differently from each other.

[Phidius]

My Wizrds like this keep a backup Repair spell right next to Reconstruct, but it's pretty rare that they ever use it. And when they do, spell points just aren't a problem.

Personally, I prefer wizard over sorc for multiclasses. I've also got a 12 Sorc/6 Pal/2 Monk, but he's just not as good as the wizard/ranger version. He's only level 16 (12/2/2), and I'm still working on leveling him to see if he really blossoms with the next four levels.

[voodoogroves]

The 17/2/1 can be a more capable caster; 1 more level of spell pen, 9th level spells for best heighten option, 4 more feats from Wizzy alone (and likely 1 more from fighter) allow for spell focus, combat feats, whatever.

But yeah - the cooldown of quickened-sorcerer-reconstructs is tough.

Now, as a Pale Master with other significant self-healing, this may be differently workable. You're still DP-clickie dependent though.

[aradelothion]

I love both builds; I have a 17/2/1 at cap and Tukaw's at ~12ish (and ungeared, so take my experience with it with a grain of salt). One thing to note is that they don't play the same; the 17/2/1 doesn't give up on spell casting (9th lvl spells) and can still get high DC's (assuming you put 5 lvlups to INT), while the Tukaw is heavily melee-oriented, with the spellcasting in there for self heals and buffage. Both can dps and tank pretty well, especially at mid levels where it can keep up (or lead, even).

What makes Tukaw's great is that you can get away with middling CHA (28 or so IIRC) and still have a ton of spell points to keep yourself up and melee with the best of them (especially the monk version from what I've seen). What's great about the 17/2/1 is that it really does let you do everything - not the best in everything mind you, but really really well.

I personally like the 17/2/1 better because I can switch to full caster-mode if there are enough melee's.

[Phidius]

...Now, as a Pale Master with other significant self-healing, this may be differently workable...

This is a very excellent point - the 17/2/1 wizard can choose from a variety of (free) races, while the 16/2/2 sorc has to be WF.

At least for now - we'll have to wait and see what the Sorc PrE's bring.

[Anneliese]

You can also turn the 17/2/1 into an excellent stealth char if you have the wraith form available.

(Max MS/Hide + Invis + Wraith Form = Win!)

[voodoogroves]

This is a very excellent point - the 17/2/1 wizard can choose from a variety of (free) races, while the 16/2/2 sorc has to be WF.

At least for now - we'll have to wait and see what the Sorc PrE's bring.

Human and/or dwarf are two options I like, though I admit to being somewhat entranced with PM3 and its increased void lore and base bonus to neg. energy. Sufficient CON + Boon to Undeath + Con Op + Torc + Death Aura + Negative Energy Burst + Stoneskin + Cold/Fire Shield + Haste + etc. etc. etc. is pretty workable. I know my own hangup on PM3 isn't mandatory - Entelech is running a PM timmy tank with only PM2.

So, entirely possible to make an evasion-arcane-caster-tank with quick self healing and super defenses out of a wizard. You have the benefit of going 17/2/1 and being a pretty-much full caster, or going 12/6/2-ish and being more melee spec'd.

[CrankVulcan]

Tukaw can spam reconstructs every 2 seconds. Wizards, that is more than double (5secs) the time, so the two builds play very differently from each other.

Is that the case if the spells are quickened?

I guess "super-setting" reconstruct/repair serious back to back wouldn't be too bad....does this build have to heal every 2 seconds?

With all the feat vacancy on this build, it seems stunning blow might actually be effective with this build...

10base+10str+10stunning maul+3warforged enh+1fighter enh=DC 34

....just a stray thought...

[CrankVulcan]

Is that the case if the spells are quickened?

I guess "super-setting" reconstruct/repair serious back to back wouldn't be too bad....does this build have to heal every 2 seconds?

With all the feat vacancy on this build, it seems stunning blow might actually be effective with this build...

10base+10str+10stunning maul+3warforged enh+1fighter enh=DC 34

....just a stray thought...

Bump -_-

[Ytteri]

Why not 1mnk instead of 1ftr? You'd have slightly higher will/reflex saves, elemental stances and be able to use stunning fist with its lower cooldown instead of stunning blow. If you go palemaster for form of the lich you'd be able to inflict wounds on unarmed attacks, gain temporary HP when struck and with Boon of Undeath on the Epic Mabar Docent you wouldn't need to self heal as much. If you don't have the Docent, maybe consider being a fleshie for Shroud of the Abbot, you're immune to repair in lich form anyway.

[blitzschlag]

Bump -_-

well, you in a make or break situation the wizards spell cooldown can break it instead of make it.

the build is/should be a self-buffing melee with limited no save nuking (firewall - scorching ray). so you are always in the fray and can reconstruct yourself for 225 (only counting superior potency vi necklace) hp. as a wizard a repair serious might be an option because you can fit in maximize and empower if needs be. still, a maximized empowerered repair serious has no good spellpoint to # hp healed ratio.

i'd rather go for 16/2/2 sorc/pal/rog because of the larger sp pool, better heals, way better saves. skillpoints are a problem though.