"Waves" goodbye to ToD

[r3dl4nce]

In guild we complete regularly ToD with a barbarian hate tank and no really need for Waves....

Find better groups :asd:

Epic Lailat could be a bit harder...

[karnokvolrath]

Boss debuffs, now available in the DDO store.

buwahaha +1

[DethTrip]

boss Debuffs, Now Available In The Ddo Store.

Ilmfao!!!!!!

[Asketes]

I find it funny that people get used to a certain way of playing and are unable to adapt.


Sure it was nice, but it's not like we haven't done it before? right? right?



lol @ the whiners.


play better or don't, it's the way it is. (i don't like it, but i can adapt and recover)

[BlackSteel]

In guild we complete regularly ToD with a barbarian hate tank and no really need for Waves....

Find better groups :asd:

Epic Lailat could be a bit harder...

i'm actually enjoying the new trend for DQ on khyber. Not having waves available isnt really noticable when everyone is just standing in a lump taking a beating together.

[Eladiun]

"■Ray of Fatigue, Waves of Fatigue and the Waves of Exhaustion speed effect will now bounce off of raid bosses."

Unless you have a pair or trio of Clerics willing to suck down 10-20 mana pots per run you'll be hard pressed to finish this raid.

Thanks Turbine... We greatly appreciate your attention on this one or was it attention to more profits in the DDO store? There was no need for this nerf.

LOL... Only in a poorly build party full of gimps.

[transtemporal]

Nah, all it means is that we have to go back to the old way of doing it. Main healer on horoth tank, secondary healer/repairer in case the main healer gets overwhelmed, bard to look after the party. Run sulu around, rather than killing him.

We might have to reset the hp benchmark for the main tank though. We were doing it with 550-600hp tanks when we had waves but we might have to bump that back up to 850-1000ish.

[Mercureal]

Yeah, I don't see the problem here either. Did ToD last night, killed Suulo, killed Horoth, no deaths, no exhaustion effects, and as far as I know no mana potions.

We were short-manned ('cause one of our fighters ran into the lava on part 2, died, no soul stone); first ToD for one toon, second for me (and 'me' being a gimpy 28-point elf ranger who doesn't even have a tier 3 green steel weapon). The final fight wasn't even all that challenging.

[grodon9999]

Nah, all it means is that we have to go back to the old way of doing it. Main healer on horoth tank, secondary healer/repairer in case the main healer gets overwhelmed, bard to look after the party. Run sulu around, rather than killing him.

We might have to reset the hp benchmark for the main tank though. We were doing it with 550-600hp tanks when we had waves but we might have to bump that back up to 850-1000ish.

Are you talking difficulties higher than normal? We did 3 normal runs last night. One of our runs was solo-healed with a barb hate-tanking. Sure that was a no-kill-sulu run but with one healer we're not nuts enough to try. Our other two runs had stalwart's on horoth and ranger/pally hate-tanks on sulu and they were fine. it's not that big of a difference.

[Waukeen]

Just tanked one on a barbarian...

he hit faster but HP pool, heal amp, and proper heals made it a breeze.

[stille_nacht]

my main beef is not how "hard" raids will be, because they wont be that much more difficult, and still, as people said, completely doable.

what my problem with this is what it is doing to caster usefulness in general. before when you got to the raid boss you could at least claim you were "essential" or "important" because everyone wants a caster to pop waves, now you are just that semi-piker who nukes horoth for like 1/40th then runs out of sp.

[Asketes]

I find it funny that people get used to a certain way of playing and are unable to adapt.


Sure it was nice, but it's not like we haven't done it before? right? right?



lol @ the whiners.


play better or don't, it's the way it is. (i don't like it, but i can adapt and recover)

ohh boo hoo

Asketes said something that made sense; but but /sniff

it's TOO hard.

hehe

[Jacoby]

Ok, I relent to the waves of flammers who are too uber and geared out to recognize what Turbine has done. So, the elite can still do ToD with little problem. Answer me this, why exactly did the Dev's nerf the debuffs? What group of players will be most impacted by the nerf if not the elite hardcore types?

If any have bothered to look at my history I get perturbed at every spell nerf and the trend continues. Turbine has nerfed a spell effect in EVERY so called update. When was the last time Barbarians were nerfed?

Maybee I've just been in this game too long. I tire of seeing D&D shredded into a WoW clone by eliminating strategy and spell effects other than pure damage. Maybee they should just nerf casters all the way down to ranged nukers and give them 3 spells that scale in damage with each level. That should simplify it enough for the WoW generation.

[Egeus]

I was part of a group that short-manned ToD yesterday (gotta watch out for that lava... ), and we had a grand total of 1 mana pot used (by a cleric), and both kills. Seemed to go ok, although maybe a sexy Flesh-to-Stone caster had something to do with it... *cough cough*

That said, yes, I would think it's a GOOD thing that certain spells like Waves should be occasionally useful in ways that the devs didn't forsee. Personally, I traded it in for Dance Ball.

[dkyle]

Answer me this, why exactly did the Dev's nerf the debuffs? What group of players will be most impacted by the nerf if not the elite hardcore types?

It's not a nerf, it's a bug fix. Bosses weren't supposed to be affected like that in the first place. In fact, Exhaustion isn't supposed to reduce anyone's attack rate!

This is the same as when they fixed cooldowns so they couldn't be bypassed. Manyshot has a 2 minute cooldown for a reason. Perhaps it should be buffed, and shortened in some way, but don't pretend bug fixes are nerfs.

I suppose you think Tendon Slice was nerfed? That it should slow boss's attack speed, even though it's only supposed to be a movement reduction?

As far as I'm concerned, Waves and Tendon Slice were overpowered with the bug. Far too much effect for minimal effort. Casters should have more of a role to play in endgame Raids, absolutely. But that wasn't the way to do it.

I could see arguing that Exhaustion should continue to slow DQ's movement speed, since that's its intended effect, and Raid bosses didn't used to be immune to movement speed penalties. That's a real nerf to waves. But this thread is about ToD.

[Hanam]

Let's put it this way:

There's now a chance a cleric would use a mana pot instead of falling asleep with 6 pikers in the group and healing the Horoth tank once every full moon.

As posters have mentioned, you need real tanks now for Horoth and Suulo instead of 450+ hp rogues tanking for fun.

For the elite players, this fix changes nothing. Just be more picky when forming the group

[Faent]

Sure that was a no-kill-sulu run but with one healer we're not nuts enough to try.

What? Grodon, you can heal yourself while tanking Suulo. Or the bard can heal you, if you don't want to heal yourself. Have someone else who can UMD heal scrolls backup the main healer on Horoth, and you should be fine for a single-healer Suulo kill.

[transtemporal]

Are you talking difficulties higher than normal?.

Come to think of it, thats a good point. Before the waves thing was in common use, we were doing nightly hard runs with Ransacked (I think we thought sulu dropped +4 tomes at the time). I remember those runs being fairly challenging on a healer and we had two healers on the main tank. There weren't many runs where I had to use pots though.

Probably be easier on normal I guess?

[transtemporal]

I tire of seeing D&D shredded into a WoW clone by eliminating strategy and spell effects other than pure damage. Maybee they should just nerf casters all the way down to ranged nukers and give them 3 spells that scale in damage with each level. That should simplify it enough for the WoW generation.

Don't get me wrong, the whole change seems to punish creative thinking and casters in general, I agree. But exhaustion, fatigue and tendonslice was so overpowered it trivialised tod into lameness. They took out tripping on bosses a few mods ago for the same reason.

[Giselle]

When was the last time Barbarians were nerfed?

Critical rage.