Virtuoso with a wrench

[mightymidget]

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.3 (Pre-Release)
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Ryotswitch 
Level 20 True Neutral Half-Elf Male
(6 Rogue \ 14 Bard) 
Hit Points: 180
Spell Points: 464 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 8
Reflex: 19
Will: 10

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength              8                     8
Dexterity            16                    20
Constitution         14                    15
Intelligence         16                    20
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             14                    17

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 1

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               3                    16
Bluff                 2                     3
Concentration         4                    23
Diplomacy             6                    30
Disable Device        7                    26
Haggle                6                    27
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  7                    25
Intimidate            2                     3
Jump                  3                     9
Listen               -1                     1
Move Silently         6                    27
Open Lock             7                    15
Perform               n/a                  30
Repair                3                     7
Search                7                    20
Spot                  3                     8
Swim                 -1                    -1
Tumble                4                     7
Use Magic Device      6                    26

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Sorcerer
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device I


Level 2 (Bard)
Enhancement: Improved Open Lock I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Repeating Heavy Crossbow
Enhancement: Rogue Fire Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 4 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Improved Diplomacy I
Enhancement: Improved Haggle I
Enhancement: Improved Perform I
Enhancement: Improved Search I


Level 5 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device II
Enhancement: Improved Open Lock II


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II


Level 7 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Mechanic I


Level 8 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Enchantment
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I


Level 10 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Improved Perform II


Level 11 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Improved Diplomacy II
Enhancement: Improved Hide I
Enhancement: Improved Search II


Level 13 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song III
Enhancement: Elven Perception I


Level 14 (Bard)
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Intelligence I


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II


Level 16 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song IV


Level 17 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Virtuoso I


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II


Level 19 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I


Level 20 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Music of Makers
Enhancement: Bard Music of the Dead

My first attempt with a char planner.

I'd like to hear some opinions on this build. Good and bad

[Kourier]

It lacks focus, is what I can say. Dunno how you plan to land your bard spells without heighten, spell penetration, decent charisma. Meanwhile, you took WF: Ranged (Pretty useless feat) and a couple ranged feats that don't get you much, plus heavy repeater prof (You get light for free).

I'd put all level ups into dex for to hit. Drop all the spell casting feats and weapon focus ranged, and pick up feats like manyshot, rapid shot, rapid reload. Extend would also be very convenient.

Splashed Virtuoso has meh songs (A pure warchanter has +8/9, a pure virt has +7/7, you have +6/6 max).

[unbongwah]

I'm not convinced rogue 6 / bard 14 is a great combo; but I am certain trying to focus on CC spells is a bad idea for this build. Your DCs & Spell Pen will be too low with so-so CHA, so few bard levels, and no capstone, even with those metamagics you took. So that'd be the first thing I dropped.

Second, for a repeater build you want as many of the following feats as you can get (not necessarily in order of importance): heavy repeater prof (or stick w/light), Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot, Improved Crit Ranged, Point Blank Shot (pre-req for), Precise Shot, Improved Precise Shot (reqs base DEX 19). Obviously, this is tough to swing on a rogue / bard with no bonus feats (or a pure rogue, for that matter), so either something's gotta give (PBS / PS / IPS would probably be what I dropped) or you should consider a fighter splash for extra feats.

Third, what does sorc dilly add - arcane wands & scrolls? That might help while leveling, but eventually your UMD will be high enough that you won't need it. At which point I think pally for the saves or barb for the extra HPs would be better. Actually, I'm not sure HE is the best race for this build; I would prefer human for the extra feat, elf for the +2 DEX (esp. if you want Imp Prec Shot), or drow for the +2 DEX, INT, & CHA (one of the few times all three drow bonuses come in handy).

[Ssmooth]

And here I was looking for a virtuoso and a 'wench'

[Thrudh]

I think bard/rogues are great characters, but I don't think you can fit in ranged combat as well...

A bard/rogue is a support character who can buff, heal, and handle the traps... CC is not likely with a heavy splash.

You want the sneak attack bonus from the rogue levels in order to do any DPS, and it's much easier to get the sneak attack bonus with TWF than ranged.

Get a radiance II rapier from the Shroud, and you can even handle aggro.

Just my opinion.

[unbongwah]

A bard/rogue is a support character who can buff, heal, and handle the traps... CC is not likely with a heavy splash.

A properly built rogue / bard can also do decent melee DPS & have good CC songs (w/ or w/out Virt). Part of the problem here is you need rogue 6 to get Mechanic, which really waters down your bard lvls; and you need a lot of ranged feats to do decent DPS and rogues & bards are feat-starved classes. If you add, say, ftr 1 or 2 to add feats, you water down bard even further. I just haven't seen a Mechanic bard build I like.

[Thrudh]

A properly built rogue / bard can also do decent melee DPS & have good CC songs (w/ or w/out Virt). Part of the problem here is you need rogue 6 to get Mechanic, which really waters down your bard lvls; and you need a lot of ranged feats to do decent DPS and rogues & bards are feat-starved classes. If you add, say, ftr 1 or 2 to add feats, you water down bard even further. I just haven't seen a Mechanic bard build I like.

Yes, good CC songs... that's true.... just don't try to use CC spells.

And bard/rogues can definitely do good melee damage, especially with a radiance II rapier. Self-cast haste, displacement, and rage are awesome too...

Trying to do a ranged version is just too much in my opinion... This build is already feat starved, and ranged requires a high feat investment.

[EKKM]

I'd put all level ups into dex for to hit. Drop all the spell casting feats and weapon focus ranged, and pick up feats like manyshot, rapid shot, rapid reload. Extend would also be very convenient.

Splashed Virtuoso has meh songs (A pure warchanter has +8/9, a pure virt has +7/7, you have +6/6 max).

I agree with a lot of what you said but wanted to point out that manyshot does not work on crossbows. I would also only put level ups into dex if he wants to be ranged character. If he wants to be a bard, put level ups into chr.

I think you can accomplish your goals with a much smaller rogue splash. You probably only need one level to unlock the skills but you might as well get two for evasion. Also, I dont like half elf for this as much as humans or drow, but its not a game breaker. On a one or two level splash you wont get INT to xbow damage but that will be largely offset by your improved bard spells and abilities.

[unbongwah]

I agree with a lot of what you said but wanted to point out that manyshot does not work on crossbows.

True, but instead of MS you want to take Rapid Reload on a repeater build, so the total # of feats is almost the same. Only other difference is Bow STR, which is useless to crossbows.

If he wants to be a bard, put level ups into chr.

This is the first mistake of a lot of new bard builds, inc. me when I started DDO (wot a n00b I was!). Unless you're focused on CC spells (in which case you should play a pure bard who specializes in them), you do NOT need high CHA on a bard. You only need enough to meet your min. reqs. for spells, which is easily accomplished with enhs, tome, and/or item. The extra SPs from higher base CHA are pretty negligible and hardly worth the cost: 29 SPs for every +2 CHA at lvl 20 on a pure bard.

[EKKM]

True, but instead of MS you want to take Rapid Reload on a repeater build, so the total # of feats is almost the same. Only other difference is Bow STR, which is useless to crossbows.
This is the first mistake of a lot of new bard builds, inc. me when I started DDO (wot a n00b I was!). Unless you're focused on CC spells (in which case you should play a pure bard who specializes in them), you do NOT need high CHA on a bard. You only need enough to meet your min. reqs. for spells, which is easily accomplished with enhs, tome, and/or item. The extra SPs from higher base CHA are pretty negligible and hardly worth the cost: 29 SPs for every +2 CHA at lvl 20 on a pure bard.

What I meant re the bard comment and CHR is that, if he wants 18-20 levels of bard and wants to use CC, he needs his levels ups in CHR. The levels in roguw wont affect his spell DC.

[unbongwah]

The levels in roguw wont affect his spell DC.

Splashing anything on a CC bard means you lose the bard capstone, which is +2 CHA (+1 DC) and +2 Enchantment DC (and +2 Spell Pen of course). I definitely think that qualifies as "affecting his spell DC," don't you?