20 Fighter vs 19Fighter/1Monk handwraps build

[Jhaeran]

Primarily 2 questions:

With no monk comes no unarmed strike correct? So 1d3+mods vs 1d6+mods. Since a splash monk build would generally get its dps via str/feats/effects I'm assuming that does not necessarily cut DPS in half - any idea as to the ratio?

Does monk by default get an attack speed boost, or only in air stance? Is fighter unarmed atk speed equal to monk with no stance?

Is there any feasible non-monk handwraps build? Ranger tempest?

Wondering if Fighter Capstone is worth it? Doubting it since lvling up would be painful.

18Fi/2Mo or 18Fi/1Mo/1Ro?

[jmonty]

i don't think unarmed works with out at least one monk level. i mean you can punch, but really slow.

either way, the dps would be gimpy, and don't use that word too often.

i'm more about the pure monk but mostly monk levels works too. there are a few builds floating around with i think, 12 monk/ 6 - 8 fighter

[ConnorMacLoad]

i don't think unarmed works with out at least one monk level. i mean you can punch, but really slow.

either way, the dps would be gimpy, and don't use that word too often.

i'm more about the pure monk but mostly monk levels works too. there are a few builds floating around with i think, 12 monk/ 6 - 8 fighter

it would probably be a really good idea if you could get more unarmed out of kensai. There are some really good unarmed splash builds, but they require a pretty heavy amount of grind to get them finished

[Asketes]

you're going to lose SO much damage if you use wraps with this guy.

1 monk doesn't give you

1) any but the most very basic damage dice
2) evasion



don't do it! :P

worst comes to worst, if you really wanna monk/fighter

12 fighter 8 monk..


the problem is these are both very substantial builds on their own, as a pure build, splitting them up tends to destroy dps, not create it.

[ConnorMacLoad]

you're going to lose SO much damage if you use wraps with this guy.

1 monk doesn't give you

1) any but the most very basic damage dice
2) evasion



don't do it! :P

worst comes to worst, if you really wanna monk/fighter

12 fighter 8 monk..


the problem is these are both very substantial builds on their own, as a pure build, splitting them up tends to destroy dps, not create it.

@ point 1) The mass mass majority of damage does not come from base handwrap damage. it is a difference of like 3.5 damage per strike and 7..... Hardly gimp worthy.

[ConnorMacLoad]

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=258272

This is an example of a well built unarmed character, and a builder who has made a few such characters. If you wanted to mess with the idea.

It also includes a ton of chatter on the topic.

[Asketes]

@ point 1) The mass mass majority of damage does not come from base handwrap damage. it is a difference of like 3.5 damage per strike and 7..... Hardly gimp worthy.

yes but you're losing out on a lot by using base die


you get +4 from fighter feats & + 4 from kensei per hit..


but all kensai gets this.. it just seems like an overall dps loss, at least more than i would prefer to give up.

in the end of the day, you gotta play what you want to play

[Jhaeran]

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=258272

This is an example of a well built unarmed character, and a builder who has made a few such characters. If you wanted to mess with the idea.

It also includes a ton of chatter on the topic.

You'll see my builds down at the bottom of that thread I like kensei vs tempest personally.

I really don't like the quantity of the monk clickies...fire attack, earth attack, light attack, etc that would be needed to fully use the class and make use of the finishing moves/ki. I DO like the unarmed aspect, but wish more of them were passive via stance.

Was trying to get a kensei based unarmed (tempest seems nice for 10% offhand proc, but loss of the +ac somewhat dampens my enthusiasm). Can situationally bump the dps via SA with rogue levels (and add evasion, rogue skills, umd) and that's where I'm probably heading. Think I'll be going 12Fi/7Ro/1Mo Dwarf while contemplating elf (high hp of dwarf vs displacement of elf). Although going to see if there are any H-elf dilettante enhancements that would make it worthwhile to take ranger/cleric dilettante for wand usage vs rogue UMD at low lvls.

Just wondering if fighter capstone would be viable (doesn't seem to be) and if unarmed strike (or equiv) was available for fighter. I think the biggest negative is attack speed loss w/o monk, less than the 1d3 vs 1d6. 1d6 vs 1d8 and even 1d10 isn't that big a jump. At 2d6 its significant, but I don't think I'll ever take enough monk levels to see it, even with monk bracers/earth stance.

[dpadan17]

I have a 12 fighter/8 monk and love the way she plays. Makes soloing easier. Self healing (light side monk) with the Kensai II portion build. She is a Dex based version of the GODHAND build. Mine is a little different for I have not INTIM score and she is more dex based for obtaining a 70ish AC. High 60's self buffed. This is a great unarmed build if you want to mix in Kensai into the build. My Hp's are 545. Nice for soloing.

Overrall, my opinion is.....since the Shintao change for the light side. When i finally TR this toon, she is going to go back to straight light side monk. My other dex based monk (pure dark) is out dps'ing my kensai monk (i was really shocked). So i can only imagine with the healing amp and the new boosts to Shintao, staying pure on a monk is waaaaaay better.

[richieelias27]

yes but you're losing out on a lot by using base die


you get +4 from fighter feats & + 4 from kensei per hit..


but all kensai gets this.. it just seems like an overall dps loss, at least more than i would prefer to give up.

in the end of the day, you gotta play what you want to play

Take all of the +damage per hit on your character including sneak attack damage and STR bonus, add it to your average base damage, and multiply it by 1.16 (Base attack speed with handwraps is roughly 16% faster than normal weapons before windstance and haste.) This is your new (effective) damage per hit using handwraps in comparison to anything else with at least 1 monk level. Also, offhand attacks are at full STR bonus. This is what handwraps have over other weapons.

I doubt this would make a 19/1 fighter/monk any sort of match for a more standard Kensai build though, but this is more because handwraps have horrid crits/crit rates and lack any sort of greensteel.

[Jhaeran]

Primary question was whether unarmed strike (monk ability) was needed to not have the lumbering/slow unarmed attack speed. My take-away from this is yes. So even with fighter capstone it would be 1d3+bonuses slower attacks...regardless of handwraps?

I probably won't go pure monk (acknowledging that it would be the best path) but I'll probably end up going either 12Ra/7Ro/1Mo or 12Fi/7Ro/1Mo Dwarf or halfling. A variant of the Prodigy build seems to give way more utility than a 18/1/1 split or 19/1 for a handwrap build. Currently running a 12Fi/7Ro/1Ra THF build that may not be optimized, but currently still kicks buttock.