Looking for help with Clonk build

[Macrovox]

This is a 32 pt mele-focused cleric with light monk buffs. The planner has been updated multiple times, but this reflects the current plan. I've decided to invest in a +2 supreme tome because with out it there may be too many gaps to fill.

Have a look, comment, copy, whatever you like:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.2
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Fykiri on Cannith
Level 20 Lawful Good Halfling Male
(3 Monk \ 17 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 245
Spell Points: 1070 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 14
Will: 19

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             12                    15  (1 Ability Raise)
Dexterity            16                    19
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence          8                    10
Wisdom               14                    20  (3 Ability Raises)
Charisma             15                    18  (1 Ability Raise)

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 4
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               3                    19
Bluff                 2                     6
Concentration         6                    28
Diplomacy             2                     4
Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
Haggle                2                     4
Heal                  2                     7
Hide                  3                     8
Intimidate            2                     4
Jump                  1                     5
Listen                2                     7
Move Silently         3                     6
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                     0
Search               -1                     0
Spot                  2                     5
Swim                  1                     2
Tumble                n/a                   5
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 2 (Cleric)


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Weapon Finesse


Level 4 (Cleric)


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 12 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Cleric)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 16 (Cleric)


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II
Enhancement: Halfling Hero's Companion I
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Fortitude) I
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Reflex) I
Enhancement: Halfling Athletics I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration II
Enhancement: Improved Concentration III
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration II
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration III
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might II
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might III
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery III
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery IV

This is a very capable solo build and can easily support a smartly run party. "Zerg alone; die alone. I will not babysit hitpoints"

[Phidius]

1. Race: I'd take Human for the extra feat, skill points, and healing amp.
2. Leveling Order: I'd wait until much later to take Monk2 and Monk3. Getting to Heal and Blade Barrier is always a priority of mine, not to mention using those levels later to catch up on skill points.
3. Build Points: I wouldn't spend so many on wisdom in what is clearly a melee build. Getting your starting charisma to 14 means that with a +4 tome (yeah, right) you'd qualify for Divine Might 3 - very tasty.
4. Feats: I'd change the order a bit, but going Human means you can also pickup Imp Crit: Bludgeon

Here's a rough draft:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.0 BETA
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(3 Monk \ 17 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 242
Spell Points: 972 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 13
Will: 15

 (32 Point) 

Strength             22 = 14 + 6 (item) + 2 (fire stance)
Dexterity            26 = 15 + 5 (levels) + 1 (AP) + 5 (item)
Constitution         21 = 14 + 1 (AP) + 6 (item)
Intelligence          8 
Wisdom              20 = 14 + 2 (AP) + 6 (item) - 2 (fire stance)
Charisma             16 = 14 + 2 (AP)


Tomes Used
[COLOR=silver
+4 Tome of Charisma used at level 20 (DM3)
[/COLOR]
 Skills 

Balance            40 = 17 (ranks) + 8 (dex) + 15 (item)
Concentration  28 = 23 (ranks) + 5 (con)
Jump                33 =  2 (ranks) + 6 (str) + 10 (spell) + 15 (item)
Tumble               1 (ranks)

Level 1 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 2 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 3 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse


Level 4 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 5 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 7 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 8 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 11 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 13 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 14 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light


Level 15 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+2)


Level 17 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 19 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)

[Macrovox]

Thanks very much for the quick reply. I took him up to lvl 5 as a dry-run last night and see some changes are needed. I'll update the planner soon.

You made four very good points; to expand on them...

1. Race (I'm still leaning toward Halfling or Half-elf):
Human - I'd forgotten about the extra skill point; that would address the balance issue. With Monk, I get 1/3 healing amp regardless of race. As for the extra feat; I don't see a big advantage to IC Bludgeon because the crit range on handwraps is pretty poor (doubling a crit range of 1 doesn't seem worth the effort). And, I plan to mix in kamas situationally, which deal slash damage and have the same crit range of 1.

Halfling - bonus to AC, saves, to hit & damage are all specifically very important for a front-line healer. The starting -2 strength is not an issue. Get to use Hero's Companion on my summoned pets. (From the Depths on last night's dry-run: While I was dealing with Landslide, my rat killed the other rockmonster - cracked me up.) However, I'm somewhat concerned I'll spend too much time on my back with limited AP spent on ballance. And, my saves would not be great.

Half-elf - Charisma based bonus to saves w/ Paladin Dill. Human healing amp available. Balance may still be an issue.

2. Leveling order:
I could not agree more. My original thought was to get to light monk as quickly as possible; but from my dry-run I can see the problems with that plan. As I said, I'll spend some time on the planner and update the above.

3. Build Points:
This is one of the areas that I'm least sure of. I thought about leveling up dexterity, but after a point that is just going to imporve the to-hit bonus, an area I HOPE won't need the help. I could level charisma with the idea that Div fav/pwr/might and # of turns all use it (similar idea to paladin here). But, I was thinking spell points are going to be an issue for this build so I picked wisdom. I'll also admit I was originally leaning toward wisdom so I could use stunning fist. I realized quickly that there's no way to fit it in, but for some reason didn't shake the wisdom bais. More thought is needed here.

4. Feat Order:
I agree with you here too. Extend is specifically important at low levels; it's crazy to wait until lvl 9 to grab it. Again, I'll update and repost.

More to come. Thanks again for the rough draft.

[ConnorMacLoad]

Thanks very much for the quick reply. I took him up to lvl 5 as a dry-run last night and see some changes are needed. I'll update the planner soon.

You made four very good points; to expand on them...

1. Race (I'm still leaning toward Halfling or Half-elf):
Human - I'd forgotten about the extra skill point; that would address the balance issue. With Monk, I get 1/3 healing amp regardless of race. As for the extra feat; I don't see a big advantage to IC Bludgeon because the crit range on handwraps is pretty poor (doubling a crit range of 1 doesn't seem worth the effort). And, I plan to mix in kamas situationally, which deal slash damage and have the same crit range of 1.

Halfling - bonus to AC, saves, to hit & damage are all specifically very important for a front-line healer. The starting -2 strength is not an issue. Get to use Hero's Companion on my summoned pets. (From the Depths on last night's dry-run: While I was dealing with Landslide, my rat killed the other rockmonster - cracked me up.) However, I'm somewhat concerned I'll spend too much time on my back with limited AP spent on ballance. And, my saves would not be great.

Half-elf - Charisma based bonus to saves w/ Paladin Dill. Human healing amp available. Balance may still be an issue.

2. Leveling order:
I could not agree more. My original thought was to get to light monk as quickly as possible; but from my dry-run I can see the problems with that plan. As I said, I'll spend some time on the planner and update the above.

3. Build Points:
This is one of the areas that I'm least sure of. I thought about leveling up dexterity, but after a point that is just going to imporve the to-hit bonus, an area I HOPE won't need the help. I could level charisma with the idea that Div fav/pwr/might and # of turns all use it (similar idea to paladin here). But, I was thinking spell points are going to be an issue for this build so I picked wisdom. I'll also admit I was originally leaning toward wisdom so I could use stunning fist. I realized quickly that there's no way to fit it in, but for some reason didn't shake the wisdom bais. More thought is needed here.

4. Feat Order:
I agree with you here too. Extend is specifically important at low levels; it's crazy to wait until lvl 9 to grab it. Again, I'll update and repost.

More to come. Thanks again for the rough draft.

The only thing I would say is that you reason for extend might not be for all. With my cleric/monk I solo till level 9, easy. I could care less about extend, as I will just re-buff whenever I want to. The buffs last long enough for most purposes that early anyways.

Level 9 is about the time you start to get worthwhile spells that need to be extended though.

[Narse]

The only thing I would say is that you reason for extend might not be for all. With my cleric/monk I solo till level 9, easy. I could care less about extend, as I will just re-buff whenever I want to. The buffs last long enough for most purposes that early anyways.

Level 9 is about the time you start to get worthwhile spells that need to be extended though.

I think this question really depends on Ship buffs. Before Ship Buffs you had to have extend early to make the resistance spells worthwhile. Now with Ship Buffs and 60 minute - 30 resist buffs it makes Extend rather useless until you get blade barrier.

[Macrovox]

Interesting & thanks for the input.

You both are supporting my original thought that Extend is not critical early. I mostly wanted to pull it forward to make Div Favor useful. I still think this is important. I agree extended elemental buffs aren't a big deal. In fact I was just planning to use pots/wands. Just a thought, if I fight early with a staff I could wait unitil 2nd Monk to take TWF and move Exend up w/o a problem. But I think the bottom line here is the timing of Exend is a secondary decision.

I'm more concerned about where to spend build points (Dex, Char or Wis). And to a lesser extent, which race to choose. I'm heavily leaning toward halfling.

[Macrovox]

I've updated the planner based on some further thought, research and the input I've received. I've notice one small glitch; quarterstaff is not a light weapon and does not benefit from finesse. But with bull's I should be fine until level 6. I'm also still undecided on extra ability level-ups going to wis or dex. I'll probably make the decision based on how well I'm hitting things at level 8. And obviously, the enhancements are fluid aside from the Clr PrE.

What I think I'm seeing is an Evaision Paladin with Blade Barrior and Healing Auras (RS & Monk). I hope to be able to stay on the frontline where the auras are most needed. And with divine might doing +6 damage, and div favor doing +3 hit/+3 dam at a centered handwrap speed I expect to contribute dps as well.

I understand that an evaision paly has better crit range, smites and divine sacrifices. But should fall well behind in the number of attacks this build should be able to deliver. And let's not forget about BB. So I'm interested to hear opinions. Do you think this build stacks up with an Evaision Paladin? Do you think if I want an Evaision Paladin I should just build one? =)

[Raoull]

You'll do considerably less damage than an evasion Paladin, especially against Evil Outsiders. Other than than, handwraps do about +15% dam from base, vs. Khopeshs that do +30%(with improved crit)... which is substantial (well... +20% vs. +30% if you bother with improved crit). That said... when soloing the air stance is basically like using haste, which makes up much of that difference. (I find using haste clickies to be too short, but in parties an extended haste lasts a nice amount of time, making lvl 1 air stance lose its luster.) You'll need Divine Power to keep your tohit the same as a pal. Otherwise, they basically have the same tohit with PA on as you do with it off. And at high lvls pals get +10% attack speed with Zeal.

Basically... you'll be substantially lower than a paladin. But.... you're healing will be way better, especially top-off healing via RS. And things like Blade Barrier change the game entirely. If you want a paladin, be a paladin. But there is nothing wrong with a melee cleric, just understand that a melee cleric doesn't do the same damage as one of the true melee classes. You'll be less powerful as a melee, but way more versatile.


Comments on build... I'm not sure if Finesse is worth it, considering it is just +2 to hit. Also, unless you want so many metamagic you can't pull it off... try to aim at Monk for lvl one. You'll get 6 more skill points overall, but in particular 9 more from the monk list which is way better than the cleric one. Basically decide what feats you want, and if you can do that and take monk at lvl one, go that route. You might also only want to aim for DM 2. If you put the remaining points into str, you'll be losing part time +2 dam to gain full time +1 dam +1 tohit (further reducing the advantage of Finesse). You'll also be 2 str further from going uncentered whenever you get hit with str loss. I find that hugely annoying as a non-halfling clonk and I have 14 base, +1 tome, and all lvls going into it. For a halfling going uncentered is particularly easy, and pretty brutal.

[wax_on_wax_off]

The only thing I would say is that you reason for extend might not be for all. With my cleric/monk I solo till level 9, easy. I could care less about extend, as I will just re-buff whenever I want to. The buffs last long enough for most purposes that early anyways.

Level 9 is about the time you start to get worthwhile spells that need to be extended though.

I'm leveling a similar character.
My feats were
1 toughness
1 TWF
3 weapon finesse
6 empower healing spell
9 extend spell

I just hit level 9 and now im thinking that having made it this far without extend that i should swap extend spell for maximise as my radiant servant bursts are killing most undead mobs anyway and with a little extra oomph they would be awesome. Though, possibly i would swap weapon finesse for maximise instead.

Extend isn't really that necessary, low levels it is nice but it isn't actually a big saving on SP. At level 7 cleric when you get divine power and recitation its SP savings will add up but the extra oomph that maximise will give to radiant servant burst, blade barrier, even searing light makes it a tasty option. I haven't decided quite yet.

Obviously, extend spell adds just as much to blade barrier as what maximise does so realistically by the time you hit level 12 (1 monk / 11 cleric) you really want all 3 feats (maximise, extend and quicken).

[DToNE]

If I were you, I'd ignore Weapon Finesse altogether. My Dex is 4~6 points higher than my STR and I hit Epic mobs without Finesse just fine. The only reason any person even takes Finesse is if they're having a difficult time landing a hit, this is almost never the case for Cleric due to GH Clicky, Divine Favor, Divine Might, Titan's Grip, Rage, and I'm sure you'll have a Rahl's later for Improved Destruction... so.... it's a near +24~25 to accuracy.

If you're still having issues with Accuracy, go Human. Human Versatility action boost gives +5 to damage, accuracy, AC, saves, or skills for a short duration. Since most fights are short duration anyways, it will serve you much better than the static +1 or +2 size AC you get from Halfling.

Personally, I'm not sure if ITWF and GTWF is worth it. Let's just say if you get both your mainhand and offhand swings off all the time, that would be 100% damage output since half is your mainhand and half is your offhand. Offhand doesn't always proc though, not with the TWF changes a while back, now they'll only happen 20% without, 40% with 1 feat, 60% with 2, 80% with 3; however, in real numbers they're really only 10%, 20%, 30%, 40% actual damage respectfully.

The reason I mentioned the ITWF and GTWF earlier is so you can remove them for Stunning Blow and Stunning Fist. Your starting Wisdom is really close to my build, so you can easily reach 30~32 WIS, granting you a 31 DC stunning fist, which is pretty impressive since it'll still land at non-epic 20 provided they're not Amrath mobs. When stunned, you do x2 damage with your fists. If you think about it you lose 20% overall damage with loss of the two twf, but you gain a near 140% (70% x 2) damage output due to the autohits and autocrits as compared to the 90% with the TWF feats without stuns. If you remove Weapon Finesse and add Power Attack instead your damage would pretty much rival a DPS class when they're NOT crit/auto critting. Don't argue with me about Epics either, because Cleric's most efficient weapon in there is a Dreamspitter, hands down.

Personally I sacrificed those two as well, being restricted to human, so I can have full powered BB as well (Max, Empowered) and powerful Positive Energy Bursts (Max, Empowered, Emp Healing) while maintaining a fairly high melee DPS ratio and keeping it as a strong support ability as the whole party benefits from autocrits.

Then again, my build is considered insane, even among guildies LoL. Hopefully this'll help you a tad bit.

[Macrovox]

Obviously, extend spell adds just as much to blade barrier as what maximise does so realistically by the time you hit level 12 (1 monk / 11 cleric) you really want all 3 feats (maximise, extend and quicken).

The ingame description is misleading for Maximize (and Potency); says it bumps up spell 'damage'. What I'm hearing about Maximize, and what I've tested with Potency (math below), is they effect healing spells aswell - not just damage.

Toughness is netting me a whopping 23 hps. My aura should be tick healing for nearly that amount. So with a fort item (75-100%), do I really need Toughness?

I will give some thought into taking Maximize instead of Toughness at lvl 9. But I'm curious, does Maximize impact RS Aura/Burst? There are no spell points involved.

Math as Promised:
With a Potency II item (+20%) I recorded 10 non-crit cure mods that averaged 28.4 hps. I then removed the item and averaged 22.8 for ten non-crit throws. 28.4 is 19.7% larger than 22.8. The sample size could have been bigger. But given the nealy unanimous belief that Potency effects healing and the dead on result, I am for now convienced about Potency. And left to assume the same is true about Maximize.

[Macrovox]

DTone - thanks for the input.

Point taken on Weapon Finesse. The ability to land punches is one of my unknowns. I'm glad to hear your build is able to do without. I'm going to keep it for now because I'm still unsure if i'll need to put my level-ups into Dex. But if I don't I may have to go see Fred. This would be very good news.

Stunning fists are a big part of my originial plan for this guy. I imagined throwing healing moves on stunned badguys and happily breezing through quests (a hero of course - it's my imaginiation). But I simply could not make it fit featwise and I'm a little concerned about the ability land stuns with only 3 levels of monk.

If you've had success with it, I would love to see your build. Also, I assume your ability increases went into Wisdom?

[DToNE]

Yes, Maximize, Empowered, And Empowered Healing all affect Positive Energy Burst from what I've seen (was spamming it a lot in the Mabar Event, after all).

Toughness is really questionable. For most scenarios, it's so you can survive a high powered Disintegrate to the face, which the work-around would be to have Temp HP available if you don't have toughness feat and enhancements. GH, Divine Power, Hero's Feast, Stalwart Pact, and Aid, all give a fairly high amount of temp HP, which is usually enough temp HP (Nearly +100 Temporary HP). There aren't many cases where you become the main target in an Epic Quest either, so it's really pending on you.

That and there's no way for a Cleric to survive an 800 damage epic fire breath to the face, so....

Edit: The link to my build is http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=290010
For a "Champion" version, drop 3 CON and 1 WIS. Steep hit, but managable. I lasted a solid 8 months at 20 with no issues at Champion.

[Raoull]

Toughness is netting me a whopping 23 hps. My aura should be tick healing for nearly that amount. So with a fort item (75-100%), do I really need Toughness?

Toughness actually adds at least 43, since it will unlock at least 2 lvls of racial toughness for 20 hps. (some races can get up to 40, plus some classes get more as well)

43 hps is a chunk. You want your HPs as high as possible.... ideal is having enough to cast heal on yourself without wasting any healing, and without having to wait until your HPs get dangerously low. Don't think of them as on top of your full HPs. Think of them as on top of the floor of Total HPS - Heal. 43 hps is a big addition to that buffer.

[Macrovox]

Oops - i missed your post Raoull. Another vote against Finesse - good to hear.

You'll do considerably less damage than an evasion Paladin, especially against Evil Outsiders. Other than than, handwraps do about +15% dam from base, vs. Khopeshs that do +30%(with improved crit)... which is substantial (well... +20% vs. +30% if you bother with improved crit). That said... when soloing the air stance is basically like using haste, which makes up much of that difference. (I find using haste clickies to be too short, but in parties an extended haste lasts a nice amount of time, making lvl 1 air stance lose its luster.) You'll need Divine Power to keep your tohit the same as a pal. Otherwise, they basically have the same tohit with PA on as you do with it off. And at high lvls pals get +10% attack speed with Zeal.

Yes damager per hit doesn't compare. My 17 Evaision Pally crits 1 in 4 hits and 80 or 90% of the time with smites (don't remember smite specifics off hand and the the game is down for update 8 atm). But the point is she lives & dies by crits. For this toon, I'm not even bothering with Imp Crit; the range is too low. And you're right Zeal (which used to be better than it is) is running for nearly every fight she enters - advantage Paly. But because this toon is monk based we have to consider more than just per hit damage.

Comments on build... I'm not sure if Finesse is worth it, considering it is just +2 to hit. Also, unless you want so many metamagic you can't pull it off... try to aim at Monk for lvl one. You'll get 6 more skill points overall, but in particular 9 more from the monk list which is way better than the cleric one. Basically decide what feats you want, and if you can do that and take monk at lvl one, go that route. You might also only want to aim for DM 2. If you put the remaining points into str, you'll be losing part time +2 dam to gain full time +1 dam +1 tohit (further reducing the advantage of Finesse). You'll also be 2 str further from going uncentered whenever you get hit with str loss. I find that hugely annoying as a non-halfling clonk and I have 14 base, +1 tome, and all lvls going into it. For a halfling going uncentered is particularly easy, and pretty brutal.

Lots of info here:
Level order - You're right about the extra skill points, but for feats I had to take Monk at level 3

Str vs Char - Charisma is needed for DM III but also for the number of turns. I think the advantage has to go to Charisma.

Str Damage on Centered - this is easily overcome with restoration spell/pots. It's going to take a strong argument for me to give up on halfling for this build.

[Macrovox]

Oops - i missed your post Raoull. Another vote against Finesse - good to hear.

You'll do considerably less damage than an evasion Paladin, especially against Evil Outsiders. Other than than, handwraps do about +15% dam from base, vs. Khopeshs that do +30%(with improved crit)... which is substantial (well... +20% vs. +30% if you bother with improved crit). That said... when soloing the air stance is basically like using haste, which makes up much of that difference. (I find using haste clickies to be too short, but in parties an extended haste lasts a nice amount of time, making lvl 1 air stance lose its luster.) You'll need Divine Power to keep your tohit the same as a pal. Otherwise, they basically have the same tohit with PA on as you do with it off. And at high lvls pals get +10% attack speed with Zeal.

Yes damager per hit doesn't compare. My level 17 Evaision Pally crits 1 in 4 hits and 80 or 90% of the time with smites (don't remember smite specifics off hand and the the game is down for update 8 atm). But the point is she lives & dies by crits. For this toon, I'm not even bothering with Imp Crit; the range is too low. And you're right Zeal (which used to be better than it is) is running for nearly every fight she enters - advantage Paly. But because this toon is monk based we have to consider more than just per hit damage.

Comments on build... I'm not sure if Finesse is worth it, considering it is just +2 to hit. Also, unless you want so many metamagic you can't pull it off... try to aim at Monk for lvl one. You'll get 6 more skill points overall, but in particular 9 more from the monk list which is way better than the cleric one. Basically decide what feats you want, and if you can do that and take monk at lvl one, go that route. You might also only want to aim for DM 2. If you put the remaining points into str, you'll be losing part time +2 dam to gain full time +1 dam +1 tohit (further reducing the advantage of Finesse). You'll also be 2 str further from going uncentered whenever you get hit with str loss. I find that hugely annoying as a non-halfling clonk and I have 14 base, +1 tome, and all lvls going into it. For a halfling going uncentered is particularly easy, and pretty brutal.

Lots of info here:
Level order - You're right about the extra skill points, but for feats I had to take Monk at level 3

Str vs Char - Charisma is needed for DM III but also for the number of turns. I think the advantage has to go to Charisma.

Str Damage on Being Centered - this is easily overcome with restoration spell/pots. It's going to take a strong argument for me to give up on halfling for this build.

[Macrovox]

DToNE - Thanks for the link.
It looks like we have very similar starting stats with the big difference being Intell vs Charisma (and of course your past lives). Your wisdoms is increased by 10 (+2 tome & 4 level-ups) where do the other 4 come from? Also what would you say your success right is for landing stuns? Do you use weighted wraps?

Raoull - Thanks for correcting my math.
43 was my originial count when I put Toughness in the planner. I goofed it the second time. Also, I love the concept of 43 base not as a topper to my hitpoints.

I would very much like to fit Stunning Fists into this build. It was my originial idea and I'm still holding out for some way to fit it in, but only if it lands. For now it stays out of the build.

[Talltale-Storyteller]

My recommendations:

1. Don't be a finesse build, be s STR build - you get full offhand bonus to damage, take advantage of it.
2. Go human - for the same reasons Phidious suggested. ESPECIALLY if you plan on soloing with this.
3. Don't allow yourself to be sucked into the AC game, AC has a place, and this kind of character can get a pretty good one without too much work, and who needs a godly AC when you can heal yourself so easily so many different ways?


I would normally disagree with DToNE about getting the stuns, but your build is very obviously not at all interested in offensive casting, so the stunning fist would be a good option - don't drop the TWF feats for it tho, just be a human.

Also, you say that being uncentered (from STR damage) is not a big deal, and easily taken care of with a resto pot.... but when you become uncentered amid a huge fight and you suddenly have terrible AC and saves.... well I play PD so its a little more dramatic for me i suppose, but it still sucks.


My 2cp.

[erikbozelie]

halfling is an good race to be. it has an small boost to saves. aditional dex, size bonus to atack and ac. cheap ac point just to be an certain race if you ask me.

as for monk buffs from level 3.
Take it from me that it is really really really gonna be an pain.
everything your char does other then melee breaks chains and the ki finishers.

meaning opening an door, hitting an valve, casting spells, climbing an ladder. and yes.. even picking up collectables breaks them.

meaning it is really an pain to buff during combat, and with the extremely long duriation of 1 mighty min!... you will need to spam it over and over again on the pt.

id say: roll an 3 monk / 3 cleric and try it out in stuff like waterworks, shan to kor and what not.

My personal preference is an 2 monk / 1 X splash
1 roque for trapsmithing, melee speed and damage boost, and umd.
1 wiz for aditional feat and arcane wand usage ( CL10 shield wands! ).
1 bard for umd and aditional sp, masters touch spell.

Lots of people like splashing 1 barb or fighter for some minor feats. but dont multiclass unless it gives you the power to bent time and space itself to you will. if you ask me, the only reason to multiclass is : UMD, trapsmithing, and powerfull low level splash feats such as charisma to all saves (2 pally), or wisdom to ac (2monk), or evasion (2monk / 2roque)

[Talltale-Storyteller]

halfling is an good race to be. it has an small boost to saves. aditional dex, size bonus to atack and ac. cheap ac point just to be an certain race if you ask me.

as for monk buffs from level 3.
Take it from me that it is really really really gonna be an pain.
everything your char does other then melee breaks chains and the ki finishers.

meaning opening an door, hitting an valve, casting spells, climbing an ladder. and yes.. even picking up collectables breaks them.

meaning it is really an pain to buff during combat, and with the extremely long duriation of 1 mighty min!... you will need to spam it over and over again on the pt.

id say: roll an 3 monk / 3 cleric and try it out in stuff like waterworks, shan to kor and what not.

My personal preference is an 2 monk / 1 X splash
1 roque for trapsmithing, melee speed and damage boost, and umd.
1 wiz for aditional feat and arcane wand usage ( CL10 shield wands! ).
1 bard for umd and aditional sp, masters touch spell.

Lots of people like splashing 1 barb or fighter for some minor feats. but dont multiclass unless it gives you the power to bent time and space itself to you will. if you ask me, the only reason to multiclass is : UMD, trapsmithing, and powerfull low level splash feats such as charisma to all saves (2 pally), or wisdom to ac (2monk), or evasion (2monk / 2roque)

I have to disagree. Not sure what level you took that toon up to, but i'll roll with the level 3/3 for purpose of discussion. My build can be found here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=290046

STK, WW? With the build I just listed I soloed Tangleroot at level 4 and Delera's at level 5. I had no problem at all getting the ki for my finishers or with actually using them. Will you finish them all? Absolutely not, but it wasn't a big deal. In Delera's I pretty much constantly was using Walk of The Sun and Healing Ki.

In groups I still get them off often enough to be useful, sometimes this means I wait til the end of a fight and just prep and execute the finisher. I am usually one of the highest damage dealers, one of the sturdier characters, and also the healer. I also am not twinked, and am a fairly mediocre player - I just have a solid understanding of when to do what and experience playing a monk.

I have a 14 halfling monk in my PD guild. I love that character, but for a build like this what you gain from being a halfling is not as beneficial as what you gain from being human imo.


ALSO: Regarding the 3/17 split - it is an extremely active playstyle, I am constantly doing something, but I like it that way.