"Optionals are not worth the time"

[Zenix_Leviticus]

I have heard this line so much here lately that it honestly just makes me ill. People have taken a concept of zerg xp farming efficiency to such an extreme that it doesn't even apply or make sense.

Let me start by saying that I understand that a focused group that is trying to level fast can figure out the break point for xp per minute and just slam quests over and over again and avoid optionals. They can do this until they break through a threshold where it is more beneficial to do a different quest. I GET IT! This applies to a focused group that is going to keep their nose to the grindstone and hustle. It also applies to people that plan on doing several runs of a quest/quest line, or have a time period to work with.

I constantly hear people talk about effiency in game. "It is not worth the time" they will say. Then I see that person go afk in a tavern and let their character sit idle for 10-20 minutes between quests. I also hear people that are "soloing" talk about this.

First off, we are playing a video game that actually accomplishes NOTHING in real life. The very essences of a gamers life is entertainment and wasting time. Efficient Gaming is an oxymoron. We are all goofing off with our imaginary items and characters.


Now I am not such an idiot that I don't understand the desire to level a new character up to a more "fun" point asap. Like I said, I get it. However, to just say "optionals aren't worth the time." is not a blanket statement that is true in all situations.

If you are waiting several minutes between groups and quests, the optionals are probably worth it for you.

If you can get the optionals done by staying on the main quest path to finish, the optionals are probably worth it for you.

If you are only running one quest series in an evening, the optionals are probably worth it to you.

If you are trying to increase your guild renown, any optional with a chest is probably worth it for you.

If the people you party with have to level, buff, walk the dog, and bio between each quest, the optionals are probably worth it for you.

Lessons on efficiency:

If you walk by it, break it.
If you don't have haste, get it.
Keep yourself in a quest and out of town.
Keep potions to keep yourself alive.
Going wider is often better than going faster. Six person parties kill faster than one person.
Split objectives and give assignments where possible.
Work together! Sometimes you can hit all the objectives in a quest just as fast as going for the race to the finish line.
....
....

It just goes on and on.

Efficient xp farming to the n'th degree has its' place, but you can't apply it to every quest and every party.

Efficiency is also about not leaving easy xp on the table.


Z

[Impaqt]

I have heard this line so much here lately that it honestly just makes me ill. People have taken a concept of zerg xp farming efficiency to such an extreme that it doesn't even apply or make sense.

Let me start by saying that I understand that a focused group that is trying to level fast can figure out the break point for xp per minute and just slam quests over and over again and avoid optionals. They can do this until they break through a threshold where it is more beneficial to do a different quest. I GET IT! This applies to a focused group that is going to keep their nose to the grindstone and hustle. It also applies to people that plan on doing several runs of a quest/quest line, or have a time period to work with.

I constantly hear people talk about effiency in game. "It is not worth the time" they will say. Then I see that person go afk in a tavern and let their character sit idle for 10-20 minutes between quests. I also hear people that are "soloing" talk about this.

First off, we are playing a video game that actually accomplishes NOTHING in real life. The very essences of a gamers life is entertainment and wasting time. Efficient Gaming is an oxymoron. We are all goofing off with our imaginary items and characters.

You seem to fail to realize that many folks feel diferently about their gaming time and what is "fun" You seem to be fitting everyone into your own personal gaming mold. It doesnt work that way. SOme people take gaming very seriously.

Now I am not such an idiot that I don't understand the desire to level a new character up to a more "fun" point asap. Like I said, I get it. However, to just say "optionals aren't worth the time." is not a blanket statement that is true in all situations.


If you can get the optionals done by staying on the main quest path to finish, the optionals are probably worth it for you.

Of course. I dont know anyone who would skip an optional thats staring them in the face.

If you are only running one quest series in an evening, the optionals are probably worth it to you.

Maybe.. but most people who are power leveling are not going to say "I'm running X then logging off"

If you are trying to increase your guild renown, any optional with a chest is probably worth it for you.

If you are waiting several minutes between groups and quests, the optionals are probably worth it for you.

If the people you party with have to level, buff, walk the dog, and bio between each quest, the optionals are probably worth it for you.

What? or maybe I'll just do another quest while they are trying to waste my time...

Lessons on efficiency:

If you walk by it, break it.
If you don't have haste, get it.
Keep yourself in a quest and out of town.
Keep potions to keep yourself alive.
Going wider is often better than going faster. Six person parties kill faster than one person.
Split objectives and give assignments where possible.
Work together! Sometimes you can hit all the objectives in a quest just as fast as going for the race to the finish line.
....
....

It just goes on and on.

Efficient xp farming to the n'th degree has its' place, but you can't apply it to every quest and every party.

Efficiency is also about not leaving easy xp on the table.


Z

Bolded item is the only real key to Zerging Optionals. If you can solo the quest, let the others work on optionals.

[Lorz]

Let me just add for the record....

Von3 is worth more in optionals than the base xp for the quest.



/and together they make me very happy

[Junts]

I have heard this line so much here lately that it honestly just makes me ill. People have taken a concept of zerg xp farming efficiency to such an extreme that it doesn't even apply or make sense.

Let me start by saying that I understand that a focused group that is trying to level fast can figure out the break point for xp per minute and just slam quests over and over again and avoid optionals. They can do this until they break through a threshold where it is more beneficial to do a different quest. I GET IT! This applies to a focused group that is going to keep their nose to the grindstone and hustle. It also applies to people that plan on doing several runs of a quest/quest line, or have a time period to work with.

I constantly hear people talk about effiency in game. "It is not worth the time" they will say. Then I see that person go afk in a tavern and let their character sit idle for 10-20 minutes between quests. I also hear people that are "soloing" talk about this.

First off, we are playing a video game that actually accomplishes NOTHING in real life. The very essences of a gamers life is entertainment and wasting time. Efficient Gaming is an oxymoron. We are all goofing off with our imaginary items and characters.


Now I am not such an idiot that I don't understand the desire to level a new character up to a more "fun" point asap. Like I said, I get it. However, to just say "optionals aren't worth the time." is not a blanket statement that is true in all situations.

If you are waiting several minutes between groups and quests, the optionals are probably worth it for you.

If you can get the optionals done by staying on the main quest path to finish, the optionals are probably worth it for you.

If you are only running one quest series in an evening, the optionals are probably worth it to you.

If you are trying to increase your guild renown, any optional with a chest is probably worth it for you.

If the people you party with have to level, buff, walk the dog, and bio between each quest, the optionals are probably worth it for you.

Lessons on efficiency:

If you walk by it, break it.
If you don't have haste, get it.
Keep yourself in a quest and out of town.
Keep potions to keep yourself alive.
Going wider is often better than going faster. Six person parties kill faster than one person.
Split objectives and give assignments where possible.
Work together! Sometimes you can hit all the objectives in a quest just as fast as going for the race to the finish line.
....
....

It just goes on and on.

Efficient xp farming to the n'th degree has its' place, but you can't apply it to every quest and every party.

Efficiency is also about not leaving easy xp on the table.


Z

A bit over a year ago, optionals were redone and in most cases increased by factors of 10x-20x.

People who learned to powerlevel in 06-07-08 and haven't adjusted will still think optionals are terrible, because they used to be worth 150 exp tops. In that time, and before dungeon alert, you did nothing but run past everything to the end and finish with devious or discreet.

A lot of htem haven't adjusted to which quests are worth optionals in or not, and which ones it's worth doing breakables or not (not every quest is worth breakables).

Think about how power exp is done in kobold's new ringleader: you run to each lever, you kill about 7 mobs, and you finish the quest.

That's how every single quest in the game was run before Amrath was released.

[samthedagger]

My view on optionals is that I always do them if there is a bonus chest involved, and other than that only if the XP is substantial. I do not consider 100 XP in a 10,000 XP quest substantial, especially if I have to go out of my way to complete it. To me the crux of the issue is the abundance of XP in the game. There is no point to XP after 20, and it is relatively easy to get to 20 these days. So why bother with optionals unless they give you chests? It takes longer to max favor than it does to get to 20. It takes longer to craft a tier 3 shroud item than it does to get to 20. XP in and of itself is a very plentiful commodity, so I don't put a lot of emphasis on optionals. It has very little to do with efficiency.

[rest]

Some optionals are worth it. Some are not. Case by case basis for me.

[phalaeo]

I have heard this line so much here lately that it honestly just makes me ill.

It makes you ill? It really, honestly makes you ill?
Hrmmmm....

[hecate355]

some optionals are, some arent, some are for one person, some for other

some think every extra move they make is waste of time, some actually think how to do speed run that incorporates one or more optional, in many cases, difference in completing time can be minor, exp gain quit significent, sometimes its vice versa.

quite often i want some things done so i can move on, to next plans, instead of milking every possible exp bit out of quest, its rather hard motivate yourself with 'whole evening tangleroot' 'whole evening deleras' etc

[Zion_Halcyon]

I find optionals to be worth it if they come at 300-400xp a pop, and especially if there is a bonus to completing all of them (Delera's comes to mind).

Just a run through Tear or Delera's 2 on optionals gives you around 2k XP or more, and you get another bonus 1-2k + for finishing the Omaren optionals in Delera 2. That's entire quests-worth of XP left on the table if you just run by it. Hell, even Waterworks parts 1 and 2 have decent optionals that don't deviate too much from the main or at least make it worth your while.

I definitely wouldn't advocate all optionals, all the time, but going through leveling as TR for my first time, I know full well just how precious those optionals can be as I scramble for XP to get myself back to a level where I can at least shroud again...

[rest]

Optionals are even more worth it if you have a good group of people and can split off and have everyone do something different and have one or two people headed to the end for completion. Low levels chests are meh for the most part so if I miss out on an end chest without specific named loot in it, my feelings aren't hurt.

[Zenix_Leviticus]

You seem to fail to realize that many folks feel diferently about their gaming time and what is "fun" You seem to be fitting everyone into your own personal gaming mold. It doesnt work that way. SOme people take gaming very seriously.

I do understand that people do things different and don't fit into the same mold. This is about mindless people that don't truely understand what true power leveling is telling me point blankly that "optionals aren't worth the time.", when they join the groups that I am forming.

Of course. I dont know anyone who would skip an optional thats staring them in the face.

This whole post was about all the people skipping optionals staring them in the face. I seem to keep partying with different groups of them every day.

Maybe.. but most people who are power leveling are not going to say "I'm running X then logging off"

People that are power leveling need to say so and get into groups of people that are like minded because lollygagers don't fit in and just slow the group down. So it turns into a mess and not power leveling.

What? or maybe I'll just do another quest while they are trying to waste my time...

Doing a quest by yourself is better than doing nothing, but does not qualify as power leveling.

See yellow text.

[Zenix_Leviticus]

I find optionals to be worth it if they come at 300-400xp a pop, and especially if there is a bonus to completing all of them (Delera's comes to mind).

Just a run through Tear or Delera's 2 on optionals gives you around 2k XP or more, and you get another bonus 1-2k + for finishing the Omaren optionals in Delera 2. That's entire quests-worth of XP left on the table if you just run by it. Hell, even Waterworks parts 1 and 2 have decent optionals that don't deviate too much from the main or at least make it worth your while.

I definitely wouldn't advocate all optionals, all the time, but going through leveling as TR for my first time, I know full well just how precious those optionals can be as I scramble for XP to get myself back to a level where I can at least shroud again...

You get what I am saying exactly!

Delara's
This was the straw that broke the camels back and why I wrote this post.

I got into Delara's groups two nights in a row with two different characters. First night, the group stayed together and we got about 85,000 xp in about an hour and a half. This group did 2 optionals in part two each run and all the optionals in Thrall of the Necromancer each time.

The second night, got about 38,000 xp in about an hour and a half. this group ran straight for the finish line. and was never together. This is the group that told me that optionals were not worth the time. This is also the group that stood in the room with the timer by the oozes and didn't break the sorcophigi while waiting. 10 breakable right there while the quest has you stopped.

We ran Thrall in 14 minutes and didn't get one optional! The night before, we were staying together and running all optionals and completing in 9-11 minutes.

When I tried to tell them that they left 2-3k xp on the table in Thrall they told me that "optionals are not worth the time." This just keeps coming up time and time again.


Keep in mind that I am farming xp and I am all for it. I am just tired of not even trying to get any additional xp.

[Zenix_Leviticus]

It makes you ill? It really, honestly makes you ill?
Hrmmmm....

Yes it does. To watch several thousand easy xp go to waste every quest and to listen
to some jackleg tell me how pointless it is to do optionals.

Z

[TitoJ]

I suggest to skip optionals when there's a tool in the group, or if the group just plain sucks. Who wants to draw that out no matter what the xp is?

I've never argued and made any complaint against optionals when the group was great, and everyone was cool.

If I lead a group there are certain optionals I'll skip, especially if I've figured zerging the quest to completion and farming it is more xp/min anyway.

[Zenix_Leviticus]

I suggest to skip optionals when there's a tool in the group, or if the group just plain sucks. Who wants to draw that out no matter what the xp is?

I've never argued and made any complaint against optionals when the group was great, and everyone was cool.

If I lead a group there are certain optionals I'll skip, especially if I've figured zerging the quest to completion and farming it is more xp/min anyway.

Agreed!

The answer here is that sometimes it is worth it and sometimes it isn't. If the group
is motivated, just do it.

[TitoJ]

Agreed!

The answer here is that sometimes it is worth it and sometimes it isn't. If the group
is motivated, just do it.

Here's the kicker though. I could spell out how skipping the Tear of Dhakaan optionals can be more xp/min for your basic pug ...especially ones that end up whiping on the clay golem on elite.

A great group can run the tear of dhakaan in what? 8 - 10 minutes (splitting up), maybe less, with full optionals, and get massive xp/min from that quest.

However the average pug time is probably 35 min. If you get a pug to skip the optionals, and you just blaze it. It can still be just a 10 min run.

This is exactly why I say "Go do them while I go for completion" when it comes to most optionals. If you're complaining about this, you're probably one of the many that doesn't just go do them.

[Impaqt]

I do understand that people do things different and don't fit into the same mold. This is about mindless people that don't truely understand what true power leveling is telling me point blankly that "optionals aren't worth the time.", when they join the groups that I am forming.

Its your group. tell them they can leave....

This whole post was about all the people skipping optionals staring them in the face. I seem to keep partying with different groups of them every day.

I'm gonna need to hear some example on that.....

People that are power leveling need to say so and get into groups of people that are like minded because lollygagers don't fit in and just slow the group down. So it turns into a mess and not power leveling.


Doing a quest by yourself is better than doing nothing, but does not qualify as power leveling..

Why not? There are many quests I can Solo faster than in a group.. Especially the average pug....

[ArkoHighStar]

True powerlevelling on TR's these daya try to strive for a 1000xp per minute ratio, anything that detracts from that ratio is not worth going after. does it mean that optionals are completely out, no it simply means that an optional that requires you to slow down is just not worth the loss in xp per minute. The reason this becomeds so important is that running xp pots is much more economical when you many quests fast instead of less quests slower for same xp.

[TitoJ]

True powerlevelling on TR's these daya try to strive for a 1000xp per minute ratio, anything that detracts from that ratio is not worth going after. does it mean that optionals are completely out, no it simply means that an optional that requires you to slow down is just not worth the loss in xp per minute. The reason this becomeds so important is that running xp pots is much more economical when you many quests fast instead of less quests slower for same xp.

You remind me of why I love to run with TR's on xp pots...only I don't find them in too many pugs.

[Zenix_Leviticus]

True powerlevelling on TR's these daya try to strive for a 1000xp per minute ratio, anything that detracts from that ratio is not worth going after. does it mean that optionals are completely out, no it simply means that an optional that requires you to slow down is just not worth the loss in xp per minute. The reason this becomeds so important is that running xp pots is much more economical when you many quests fast instead of less quests slower for same xp.

I agree with this when you are actively questing with a group that is moving and motivated.
However, the whole idea of if it is not optimal I might as well just not
do it is incorrect. What if I am am tired of people and just want to mindlessly kill in
an encounter zone on a TR? Your saying I shouldn't play at all? If I get into one group
that is smoking and burning the xp at 1000+ minute then the group falls apart because
of real life issues, what then?

The idea with a TR is to keep questing and questing at your level. As long as the level
matches yours do it and keep on moving. It also means you need to really soak up the
xp at low levels and bank some of the levels so you can keep getting xp without
penalty. The game is very heavily loaded on lower level quests. Banking a level and
continueing to quest at lower levels along the way has as much to do with leveling
TR's as speed and xp/min. also first time bonuses on each difficulty are big as well.

Quests by level (from the DDO wiki)

Level
L1 - 11
L2 - 18
L3 - 21
L4 - 18
L5 - 23
L6 - 18
L7 - 17
L8 - 19
L9 -18
L10 - 16
L11 - 17
L12 - 11
L13 - 7
L14 - 9
L15 - 3
L16 - 5
L17 - 6
L18 - 8
L19 - 10
L20 - 2


Another novel concept is that you do quests because you enjoy playing your character
and enjoy running a quest. I know we are all about the fat loots and grinding shroud
ingredients and epics, but some people actually enjoy playing their characters and
doing more optionals.

The Devs have made the TR concept with the idea that you will repeat all the content
in the game several times over in hopes of twinking your second favorite stat point
one more level. This buys them time to develop new content. They want to slow your
roll each time because they know that as soon as people "max out" they start loosing
interest.

My TR leveling plan is like this:

My level - Quest level (difficulty)
1 - 1 (N)
2 - 1(H), 2(N)
3 - 1 (E), 2(H), 3(N)
4 - 2(E), 3(H), 4(N)
5 - 3(E), 4(H), 5(N) (Don't take level 6 until charcter is almost level 7 then take lv6 only)
6 - 4(E), 5(H), 6(N) (Do this until you have almost have enough xp for lv8 only take 7)
7 - 5(E), 6(H), 7(N) (get as close to level 9 as you can the take level 8)

so on and so on.........
Also, don't do encounter areas until you are at the higher end of the level cap for the
area. This way you can burn through them even if you are solo.

Z