Petition to keep the bonus from manual with true reincarnation

[stoolcannon]

I do live in the US, but my point was that a person that is stupid enough to run out into a busy street wont get anything if they happen to get hit by a car, as it was there fault.

Secondly, That law suit was won, because it was proven that McDonald's was heating their coffee all the to nearly boiling or passed can't remember the exact temperature, then handing it out the window to people. Coffee does not need to almost 215 degrees in order to brew. McDonald's was being irresponsible and at fault. The problem was not that the coffee was hot it was that the coffee was so hot that it caused 3rd degree burns.

EDIT: Also she did win a settlement Mcdonald's settled out of court.

link to case info http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm

/consider yourself informed

/begin rant

Off topic for a moment because you almost sound sympathetic to that asinine lawsuit.

Everything you just explained goes to further prove the idiocy that is our legal system in America. I've (unfortunately) drank many cups of McDonald's coffee in my day, both before and after the lawsuit (along with millions of other people) and we all managed to not get 3rd degree burns and sue McDonalds. The simple fact that we can even sue for garbage like that has created what is probably the most litigious and entitled society on earth.

/end rant

[moops]

/not signed

1-I TRd one of my Clerics whom had eaten a+3 tome for every stat but the 2 she had eaten 2+4 tomes. I did not even hesitate, I knew that my past lives would be worth it--as well as I kept raiding as soon as I heard of TR and started to collect +3 tomes again. I also TR'd another Cleric and a Bard who had eaten almost every +3 tome.

2-If people get to keep their tomes, many will stop running the non epic raids. There are times of the day when it is hard enough to get a TOD/VOD/HOX together without it taking a very long to time to fill--I see LFMs with competent players sit there for 30+mins, I myself tend to just shortman instead of standing around, but that means less chances of the raid loot that people are looking for. Trying to run Shroud/Vod/Hox 16-19 takes too long to put together as well, you let people keep their tomes when they TR, then people who do not have large networks of friends like I do, will be waiting forever to fill raids.

3-I am TRing 2 more alts as soon as my Cleric whom is on her final life hits 20, these alts have also eaten many +3 tomes--ahh but since they were further down my TR list they have +3 tomes and some +4 tomes waiting in the bank. The alts are TRing more less because I actually like to run the quests.

As you can see, even tho it may stop you from TRing or your friends, it certainly does not stop many of us, I know quite a few people who have TRd over and over.

[stoolcannon]

2-If people get to keep their tomes, many will stop running the non epic raids.

This is the one and only argument against keeping tomes that makes sense in this entire thread.

I still disagree with losing tomes but at least his one has some logical reason behind it.

[Robi3.0]

/begin rant

Off topic for a moment because you almost sound sympathetic to that asinine lawsuit.

Everything you just explained goes to further prove the idiocy that is our legal system in America. I've (unfortunately) drank many cups of McDonald's coffee in my day, both before and after the lawsuit (along with millions of other people) and we all managed to not get 3rd degree burns and sue McDonalds. The simple fact that we can even sue for garbage like that has created what is probably the most litigious and entitled society on earth.

/end rant

I am sorry, that you feel that I sounded sympathetic, cause truth be told I don't care either way.

In case we have forgotten, this thread is about TRing and tomes, btw.

[bobbryan2]

2-If people get to keep their tomes, many will stop running the non epic raids. There are times of the day when it is hard enough to get a TOD/VOD/HOX together without it taking a very long to time to fill--I see LFMs with competent players sit there for 30+mins, I myself tend to just shortman instead of standing around, but that means less chances of the raid loot that people are looking for. Trying to run Shroud/Vod/Hox 16-19 takes too long to put together as well, you let people keep their tomes when they TR, then people who do not have large networks of friends like I do, will be waiting forever to fill raids.

Again.. you could make the same argument for implementing TR in the first place. If you make characters that don't need the torc anymore, no one would run DQ.

Even though losing all the raid gear stopped some people from rerolling, others still did it.

Does that mean you were against any sort of reincarnation.

[eonfreon]

This is the way I would allow TRs to keep their Tomes, in a way that I feel would be fair to all.
Create a new Reward that is a Super Tome Binder. It is of course BtC.
In it, with the appropriate Ritual Crafting, would allow you to store the Tomes of your choosing, with higher ones overwriting the lower ones, again with an appropriate ritual if Turbine desired.
This Super Tome Binder would preserve your Tomes for reuse.
Yes, it wouldn't take the Tome knowledge directly out of your head, so you would still have to hoard new Tomes, but at least only once more.
The Sper Tome Binder would preserve your Tomes indefinently and it would be banked in your TR cache like everything else.
This would therefore be a new item which we would raid for and try to acquire, as well as re-acquiring all the Tomes we may have to place within.

Yes, it would suck that my +3 Tomes that I already used would be lost forever should I TR. But then I would be in the same boat as everyone else that has already TRed. And I would have something tangible to play towards.

And once my Super Tome Binder is filled with all the Tomes I want, I would no longer worry about "what the future may hold", so to speak.
I could go for Completionist and not worry that a new Race or Class will invalidate all my hard work.

This way no one would really have a leg up on anyone else, since all would lose their already used Tomes, and it wouldn't be an "easy button" because it would be a new item to play for.

That's the best suggestion I coud think of. And I would prefer that it not be in the DDO store. Or if it is, that it not be exclusive to the DDO store, so that folks can play the gameand acquire it instead of just throwing money at it. I'm certainly not opposed to it being able to be purchased, I just don't want to see it only be available through the DDO store. Turbine promised that nothing would be available at the DDO store that could not be obtained in-game. I would like to see them keep their word for once.

Now I'm off to drink. A lot. Have fun all.

[kernal42]

As you can see, even tho it may stop you from TRing or your friends, it certainly does not stop many of us, I know quite a few people who have TRd over and over.

Nobody ever suggested that it stopped everybody, and nobody has data showing how many people it does stop. It's just another item on the list of "cons." For example:

Pros to TR:
Get to run low-level quests again.
Past-Life feats
Extra Build Points
Completionist

Cons to TR:
Have to run low-level quests again.
Costs TP/Epic tokens
Lose raid flagging
Lose raid completions
Lose tomes

This is a trade-off for everybody. For some people it weighs more heavily on the "Pro" side, for others it does not. I personally don't see why unnecessary discouragements should be in place at all, like losing raid completions or tomes.

Discouragement from running non-epic raids is a concern. It's pretty irrelevant in my mind, but I play on Orien; older servers may be more affected by this.

Cheers,
Kernal

[stoolcannon]

I am sorry, that you feel that I sounded sympathetic, cause truth be told I don't care either way.

In case we have forgotten, this thread is about TRing and tomes, btw.

Hence my "Off topic for a moment" comment.

In any event, good day to you, sir.

[stoolcannon]

Again.. you could make the same argument for implementing TR in the first place. If you make characters that don't need the torc anymore, no one would run DQ.

Even though losing all the raid gear stopped some people from rerolling, others still did it.

Does that mean you were against any sort of reincarnation.

Excellent retort and good point. We retain our gear but still run the raids on new toons.

[Xezno]

This is the way I would allow TRs to keep their Tomes, in a way that I feel would be fair to all.
Create a new Reward that is a Super Tome Binder. It is of course BtC.
In it, with the appropriate Ritual Crafting, would allow you to store the Tomes of your choosing, with higher ones overwriting the lower ones, again with an appropriate ritual if Turbine desired.
This Super Tome Binder would preserve your Tomes for reuse.
Yes, it wouldn't take the Tome knowledge directly out of your head, so you would still have to hoard new Tomes, but at least only once more.
The Sper Tome Binder would preserve your Tomes indefinently and it would be banked in your TR cache like everything else.
This would therefore be a new item which we would raid for and try to acquire, as well as re-acquiring all the Tomes we may have to place within.

Yes, it would suck that my +3 Tomes that I already used would be lost forever should I TR. But then I would be in the same boat as everyone else that has already TRed. And I would have something tangible to play towards.

And once my Super Tome Binder is filled with all the Tomes I want, I would no longer worry about "what the future may hold", so to speak.
I could go for Completionist and not worry that a new Race or Class will invalidate all my hard work.

This way no one would really have a leg up on anyone else, since all would lose their already used Tomes, and it wouldn't be an "easy button" because it would be a new item to play for.

That's the best suggestion I coud think of. And I would prefer that it not be in the DDO store. Or if it is, that it not be exclusive to the DDO store, so that folks can play the gameand acquire it instead of just throwing money at it. I'm certainly not opposed to it being able to be purchased, I just don't want to see it only be available through the DDO store. Turbine promised that nothing would be available at the DDO store that could not be obtained in-game. I would like to see them keep their word for once.

Now I'm off to drink. A lot. Have fun all.

Nice idea... a simpler version of this would simply be not to consume tomes on use, but bind them to character if its not allready bound. This would solve any technical issue with saving tomes after TR. I mean u cant trade it or use it on another character, and using it again would have no effect. Ofc they could sell/make rewards that does the same thing like u suggested. It also makes sence.. why is the tome destroyed on use really?

[kernal42]

This is the way I would allow TRs to keep their Tomes, in a way that I feel would be fair to all.
Create a new Reward that is a Super Tome Binder. It is of course BtC.
In it, with the appropriate Ritual Crafting, would allow you to store the Tomes of your choosing, with higher ones overwriting the lower ones, again with an appropriate ritual if Turbine desired.
This Super Tome Binder would preserve your Tomes for reuse.
Yes, it wouldn't take the Tome knowledge directly out of your head, so you would still have to hoard new Tomes, but at least only once more.
The Sper Tome Binder would preserve your Tomes indefinently and it would be banked in your TR cache like everything else.
This would therefore be a new item which we would raid for and try to acquire, as well as re-acquiring all the Tomes we may have to place within.

Yes, it would suck that my +3 Tomes that I already used would be lost forever should I TR. But then I would be in the same boat as everyone else that has already TRed. And I would have something tangible to play towards.

And once my Super Tome Binder is filled with all the Tomes I want, I would no longer worry about "what the future may hold", so to speak.
I could go for Completionist and not worry that a new Race or Class will invalidate all my hard work.

This way no one would really have a leg up on anyone else, since all would lose their already used Tomes, and it wouldn't be an "easy button" because it would be a new item to play for.

That's the best suggestion I coud think of. And I would prefer that it not be in the DDO store. Or if it is, that it not be exclusive to the DDO store, so that folks can play the gameand acquire it instead of just throwing money at it. I'm certainly not opposed to it being able to be purchased, I just don't want to see it only be available through the DDO store. Turbine promised that nothing would be available at the DDO store that could not be obtained in-game. I would like to see them keep their word for once.

Now I'm off to drink. A lot. Have fun all.

That's a perfectly reasonable solution. It's unfortunate, but expected, that most implementations would not be retroactive. My only complaint with what you suggest is that all those dang saved tomes would take up too much bank space! Also, rather than the Tome Saver be random loot, I'd like to see it cost some exorbitant amount of plat; the game needs some serious plat sinks.

Cheers,
Kernal

[Claymorep]

Absolutely signed!!!

+3 and +4 tomes need to be mantained over reincarnation. You can keep in bank them but considering that at nearly every update they change something in game mechanic I'm a bit reluctant to use them even in final life for the fear of something that change my build and my alt need another reincarnation...

I think too that turbine will do more money and players will be more happy if all can mantain their tomes, so why not to do this change? Both happy

[Tobril]

/not signed

1-I TRd one of my Clerics whom had eaten a+3 tome for every stat but the 2 she had eaten 2+4 tomes. I did not even hesitate, I knew that my past lives would be worth it--as well as I kept raiding as soon as I heard of TR and started to collect +3 tomes again. I also TR'd another Cleric and a Bard who had eaten almost every +3 tome.

2-If people get to keep their tomes, many will stop running the non epic raids. There are times of the day when it is hard enough to get a TOD/VOD/HOX together without it taking a very long to time to fill--I see LFMs with competent players sit there for 30+mins, I myself tend to just shortman instead of standing around, but that means less chances of the raid loot that people are looking for. Trying to run Shroud/Vod/Hox 16-19 takes too long to put together as well, you let people keep their tomes when they TR, then people who do not have large networks of friends like I do, will be waiting forever to fill raids.

3-I am TRing 2 more alts as soon as my Cleric whom is on her final life hits 20, these alts have also eaten many +3 tomes--ahh but since they were further down my TR list they have +3 tomes and some +4 tomes waiting in the bank. The alts are TRing more less because I actually like to run the quests.

As you can see, even tho it may stop you from TRing or your friends, it certainly does not stop many of us, I know quite a few people who have TRd over and over.

A couple of trends I’ve noticed:

Geared people don’t run the “little” raids because there is nothing
in there except +3 tomes for them. Instead those people will run
DQ, Dragon, ToD, etc for +4 tomes. (some will also choose tomes instead of stones from shroud)

New kids who are tough enough to do the middle raids are gravitating
towards epics instead. Those who can’t hack it in HoX, VoD, etc tend
to farm IQ/droam/etc instead.

Both of these scenarios leaves the raids you mentioned somewhat
understaffed regardless of tome issues.


Finally, I find it rather surprising that someone in QE has trouble getting
full raid groups. I was under the impression that your network was rather
extensive, but perhaps that has changed.

[asphodeli]

what the heck is up with all these "please keep my tome stats after TR" threads? It sounds as if noobs are TRing and whining about it

[moops]

Again.. you could make the same argument for implementing TR in the first place. If you make characters that don't need the torc anymore, no one would run DQ.

Even though losing all the raid gear stopped some people from rerolling, others still did it.

Does that mean you were against any sort of reincarnation.

I have Torcs on all, and in fact all raid gear that I want, and still run DQ all the time--for XP while leveling. I still run all the other raids except Titan, for XP and then when I am capped, I run them for +3 and + 4 Tomes.

[AylinIsAwesome]

I doubt you would get much of anything, If you were stupid enough to run out into a busy street as was suggested.

Just saying

Pedestrians always have the right of way.

If a car hits you, it's their fault, even if it's really your fault.

[bobbryan2]

I have Torcs on all, and in fact all raid gear that I want, and still run DQ all the time--for XP while leveling. I still run all the other raids except Titan, for XP and then when I am capped, I run them for +3 and + 4 Tomes.

But that's kind of my point. Between new people, people that haven't maxed tomes, people roll a completely new character up... there will be plenty of interest.

Raids are supposed to become outdated for the most part. People are going to find reasons to play the game one way or another. It's not like you would suddenly quit playing if you got all those +3 tomes back.

[Krag]

2-If people get to keep their tomes, many will stop running the non epic raids. There are times of the day when it is hard enough to get a TOD/VOD/HOX together without it taking a very long to time to fill--I see LFMs with competent players sit there for 30+mins, I myself tend to just shortman instead of standing around, but that means less chances of the raid loot that people are looking for. Trying to run Shroud/Vod/Hox 16-19 takes too long to put together as well, you let people keep their tomes when they TR, then people who do not have large networks of friends like I do, will be waiting forever to fill raids..

Tomes are not the culprits here.
Raids don't see much action because TR resets all your advancement towards 20-th completion.

[moops]

[FONT=Arial]
[FONT=Arial]
Finally, I find it rather surprising that someone in QE has trouble getting
full raid groups. I was under the impression that your network was rather
extensive, but perhaps that has changed.

Hence why I say that I have a big network of friends. Its really prob an issue that affects more newer players than myself. In off hours, I shortman the raids tho, because I want to start right away, and if I have 4 spots and people don't hit the LFM in a couple mins Ill just go because often times lately I only have an hour here and there to play--but many people do not have this option.

Im lucky to be blessed with a guild and friends list full of awesome players that can make any group work. But even then, getting some of my friends to run content that they need nothing out of, is quite a feat.

Tomes are not the culprits here.
Raids don't see much action because TR resets all your advancement towards 20-th completion.

As a leader of most of these raids, I can tell you that the majority that still do HOX/VOD/TOD are only looking for tomes and tell me that is why they are joining, and many of these people are TRs--Shroud only differs because one can make alot of money off of it, even if they are done crafting. I can also tell you that when I lead raids, 75% of the alts in them are TRs, maybbe even mroe, its rare to see a non TR alt these days--in my circle anyway.

But, I suppose we will find out who is right if Turbine decides to let players keep their Tomes, then that will mean that enough people were not TRing for them to make money. And at that point we can see if these raid LFMS I see sit even longer, or if more people actually join. WE often read the LFMs for entertainment.

But that's kind of my point. Between new people, people that haven't maxed tomes, people roll a completely new character up... there will be plenty of interest.

Raids are supposed to become outdated for the most part. People are going to find reasons to play the game one way or another. It's not like you would suddenly quit playing if you got all those +3 tomes back.

But if this were true, it would not be taking some of these raids forever to fill. For instance, sometimes I get to play on Saturday afternoons, and that is the slowest playtime of the week for my guild as well as my frends list ( which is in part unique because I play with a lot of Chinese players) Ill jump in a HOX cuz i need xp, and it will take 30 or more mins to fill, VOD can take even longer. Saturday afternoon is a hot playing time, the server is packed--but yet these raids will take a long time to fill.

And truthfully, tho I might run a VOD/HOX once I have all my tomes to help a guildie, there are many who won't--including some of my guildies. And I certainly don't bother keeping my timers up at all. My FVS has maybe run one or two in the past month, my other alts even less. I run TOD on my healers to help guildies outs, but my melees hit it maybe once or twice every couple of weeks.

[kernal42]

It sounds like your opinion is skewed by a sample set that is far from indicative of the DDO population as a whole.