Petition to keep the bonus from manual with true reincarnation

[AylinIsAwesome]

Nope, still not relevant.

Why you may ask?

Because losing your tomes is no where as bad as getting hit by a car. As well as the fact that getting hit by a car has absolutely no upside.

If for some reason you think that getting hit by a car is equal to losing tomes. You have a sick and twisted world out look.

Possible upside: All the insurance money you collect from the rich guy hitting you.

Just saying.

[Khanyth]

Inherent bonuses do not stack. There's no reason to have the tomes stack in this way.

But that's what is being presented, no?

Player eats a +4 tome. They TR. Can they never eat another tome related to that stat again?

In which case, it's AH'd for overpricedness, or it's traded/roll on in chest.

So, it's either overpowered for stats, or abused for plat/gear


/notsigned again

[DrNuegebauer]

But then you're only adjusting the ****** policy to work for the vets.

It'd be like chucking another tax on the middle class and letting the rich guys slide.

I'm going for all or nothing on this one.

I think I disagree on that one?

It's not terribly hard to scrounge up the plat to buy a +2 tome on the AH. If a toon has capped (ie, is eligible to TR) then they should be quite easily able to get the plat to buy a full set of tomes IF THEY WANT THEM.

If they don't - no biggie, but that's their choice.

Buying a full set of +2 tomes takes plat out of the economy and keeps prices down. Some people might run a TR life and not take any tomes; others might run a TR life and take a full set - but that plat, if not spent on tomes, would just be spent on large scales (or equivalent).


+3/4 tomes are hardly available at all. Raid loot should be kept - I'm all for keeping the BIG tomes, but not the +2s.

Anyone not TRing because of +2 tomes...

[AylinIsAwesome]

But that's what is being presented, no?

Player eats a +4 tome. They TR. Can they never eat another tome related to that stat again?

In which case, it's AH'd for overpricedness, or it's traded/roll on in chest.

So, it's either overpowered for stats, or abused for plat/gear


/notsigned again

That might be an issue if +4 tomes were common. They're not.

Also, I don't think I know of any that can go on the AH.

[stoolcannon]

So then, why does life1 get the tome but not life2?

I thought with a TR, you start over, brand new as a character etc etc etc?

If the tomes don't stack, then there's no loss: life1 gets a +4, eats it, loses it, works to get another, gets it, eats the +4, life goes on.

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking/saying.

Max tome benefit across all lives: +4
i.e I eat a +4 tome in life one, I can't eat another in life 2 for +8. It's always max 4 no matter what.

Life 1: Eat +4 tome
Life 2: No need to eat tome, gain +1 at level 2, +1 at level 7 and + 2 at level 15 for a total of +4
Life 3: No need to eat tome, gain +1 at level 2, +1 at level 7 and + 2 at level 15 for a total of +4
Life 4: No need to eat tome, gain +1 at level 2, +1 at level 7 and + 2 at level 15 for a total of +4
Ad infinitum

That's akin to what happens when you LR or GR.

[vorpel]

/signed

I have several toons that I am unwilling to TR because of the tomes that they have already used. If I could get that benefit back (just +3 tomes and above) I'd TR them in a heart beat.

Come on Turbine - let us keep our +3 and higher tomes when TR'ing. We'll buy more from the store and in turn give you more $$$$!!!

-vorpel

[biggin]

Your proposal doesn't do anything to help the "Scenario 1", in which a completionist must TR into druid and back to their final build. All but wis (I assume) is lost when TRing into druid, and then all but int (for example) is lost when TRing back into a final wizard build. Thus: All is lost.

Even more annoying is that such a system would be subverted by TRing into whatever class keep the tome you find most valuable, then LR'ing into the build you actually want. It's running through hoops unnecessarily. Just let the player pick what tome to keep, or let the player keep all tomes.

DDO is not about significant and arbitrary restrictions due to class choices.

Cheers,
Kernal

I can see that, however I don't think we can base all future DDO questions on Druids.

Also, I see your point about LRing. However in that scernario, say if you wanted to keep a STR tome for a FVS, you would have to run a TR FTR to cap first, then LR back to FVS. If someone has that time/amount of resources then so be it.

In my initial post I was trying to look at this from a point of view of "what would keep the theme of a TR and find a little middle ground". Maybe keeping one stat, no matter which, is the answer, I don't know. Maybe even introducing a Feat that would let you keep all tome upgrades may be an answer since again it would be a tradeoff. I'm not really trying to argue so much for the 1 stat option since I don't think it's game breaking to lose them all in the first place. Just liking the debate (when it stays a debate).

[Nahual]

Tomes dont make or break a build gear does.

[Tobril]

Nope, still not relevant.

Why you may ask?

Because losing your tomes is no where as bad as getting hit by a car. As well as the fact that getting hit by a car has absolutely no upside.

If for some reason you think that getting hit by a car is equal to losing tomes. You have a sick and twisted world out look.

Still relevant.

Analogies don’t have to perfectly relate, they just have to get the point across.

Apparently you are fine with having to exert a large amount of hours re-grinding tomes, so be it.

[stoolcannon]

Apparently you are fine with having to exert a large amount of months re-grinding tomes, so be it.

Fixed

[Khanyth]

Max tome benefit across all lives: +4
i.e I eat a +4 tome in life one, I can't eat another in life 2 for +8. It's always max 4 no matter what.

Life 1: Eat +4 tome
Life 2: No need to eat tome, gain +1 at level 2, +1 at level 7 and + 2 at level 15 for a total of +4
Life 3: No need to eat tome, gain +1 at level 2, +1 at level 7 and + 2 at level 15 for a total of +4
Life 4: No need to eat tome, gain +1 at level 2, +1 at level 7 and + 2 at level 15 for a total of +4
Ad infinitum

That's akin to what happens when you LR or GR.

But what I'm asking is:

If the OP is suggesting that tome increases stay through, as each life goes by, do my stats go up +4 each life (starting strength of say, 18 in tr1, 22 in 2, 26 in 3, etc etc etc) Does that mean that if I do this and TR 4 times, my starting barb strength is 30?

[dkyle]

But that's what is being presented, no?

Player eats a +4 tome. They TR. Can they never eat another tome related to that stat again?

Currently, the tome is lost, so if they TR they'll need to get a new one, which for a +3/+4 tome, may never happen, since all but a very tiny number of them (we're talking a few per server per year), are BtC. We're not expected to regrind out another ESoS when we TR, why a +4 tome?

The proposal is that, just as BtC loot is not lost, neither should the benefit of the tome when TRing. In this case, tome usage is exactly the same as if the character hadn't TR'd. They've eaten a +4, so they can't eat one again since it wouldn't stack.

In which case, it's AH'd for overpricedness, or it's traded/roll on in chest.

Huh? +3/+4 tomes are bound, so no AH, and tomes are traded/rolled on in the chest as it is.

So, it's either overpowered for stats, or abused for plat/gear

Not seeing how keeping tome benefits through TR results in any of those things.

But what I'm asking is:

If the OP is suggesting that tome increases stay through, as each life goes by, do my stats go up +4 each life (starting strength of say, 18 in tr1, 22 in 2, 26 in 3, etc etc etc) Does that mean that if I do this and TR 4 times, my starting barb strength is 30?

Noone's suggesting this, at all. The second life would get inherent bonuses to stats, that wouldn't stack with further tomes, just like in the first life.

All we're saying is that the second life should receive the same benefit the first life had, just as a TR'd Barb gets to use the same ESoS the first life did.

[Gunga]

Still relevant.

Analogies don’t have to perfectly relate, they just have to get the point across.

Apparently you are fine with having to exert a large amount of hours re-grinding tomes, so be it.

I thought your analogy was cool, for what it's worth.

[eonfreon]

Eating a tome before we all knew about reincarnating is irrelevant to this conversation.

That would be like asking for all those gimp characters I rerolled back before reincarnate. I can LR them into useful characters now.

Not trying to start an argument with this one, but trying to remove one branch from the tree this thread is becoming.

Perhaps it's irrelevent to you, but it's not irrelevent to me.

Yes, it also sucks that we couldn't LR our old characters and could only delete and reroll. That's why we pleaded and argued for respecs for a long time.

It was finally given and now I don't ever have to delete and reroll to fix "mistakes" or compensate for changes in the rules.

See how that works? Perhaps if we plead and argue enough, it can change again. And the fact that I could not predict that TR would come into existence and thus used my BtC Tomes when I got them, as anyone would, is indeed very relevent. Especially to me.

I have no desire to go for Completionist. I like my character and his Class. In the "end" he would become as he is now, only more "powerful".

At my level of play I can accept some sacrifice. Either higher Xp cost OR loss of Tomes. The two together hamstring me and keep me from making that "sacrifice" which in turn keeps me from engaging in part of the "end game" that Turbine has set up. Since the other parts of the end game are slow to develop and Epics are in need of a major overhaul, I've limited my game considerably.

Yes that is my choice. Doesn't mean I can't petition for a change that would make me play more and enjoy the game more.

[eonfreon]

But what I'm asking is:

If the OP is suggesting that tome increases stay through, as each life goes by, do my stats go up +4 each life (starting strength of say, 18 in tr1, 22 in 2, 26 in 3, etc etc etc) Does that mean that if I do this and TR 4 times, my starting barb strength is 30?

Short answer:
No and noone is asking for this.

[biggin]

But what I'm asking is:

If the OP is suggesting that tome increases stay through, as each life goes by, do my stats go up +4 each life (starting strength of say, 18 in tr1, 22 in 2, 26 in 3, etc etc etc) Does that mean that if I do this and TR 4 times, my starting barb strength is 30?

No.

The question is, if you have an 18 STR, eat a +3 tome, should you still have that base 21 after you TR. As it stands now you lose all tomes inherent bonuses. It doesn't stack. You would still have a +3 inherent bonus which could only be overwritten by a +4 tome.

[stoolcannon]

But what I'm asking is:

If the OP is suggesting that tome increases stay through, as each life goes by, do my stats go up +4 each life (starting strength of say, 18 in tr1, 22 in 2, 26 in 3, etc etc etc) Does that mean that if I do this and TR 4 times, my starting barb strength is 30?

I didn't read that as the suggestion. If so then that's horrifically overpowered and ridiculous. I'd just like to maintain the max tome benefit I already used.

I've got a +4 tome sitting in my bank I can't use knowing I'm gonna TR. That means I'm gonna be sitting on it for at least 2 more lives and it will be probably 6months to 1 year for me to use it. It took me 3 months to cap him the first time.

I would never under any circumstance suggest tomes should carry over and stack from life to life. I just don't want to have to farm them again. Well, I don't farm them to begin with. If I'm lucky enough to get one that's good enough for me.

[Krag]

Tomes dont make or break a build gear does.

No single item makes or breaks a build.

[stoolcannon]

No single item makes or breaks a build.

Actually this isn't true. The Anger's Step set makes you nearly indestructible.

[Khanyth]

EDIT

==== sorry... I'm confusing myself now======