Petition to keep the bonus from manual with true reincarnation

[Phidius]

For all those people trying to compare the Reincarnation mechanic to a metaphysical phenomenon that may or may not exist in whatever real world you inhabit, could you please explain why Lesser Reincarnate and Greater Reincarnate don't cause a similar loss?

It sounds kinda arbitrary to me... and just a touch sadistic.

[steloro]

quote this word :
The soul isn't a physical thing so why should a STR, DEX, or CON tome be kept

i want to think....
why if i reincarnate i can keep all the object????in the same thing i want to keep all the tome!!!!i is the same thing...!
Yaga_Nub if you think so you must open a petion for remove all the object when reincarnated ...or you think...object yes and tome no?

[Missing_Minds]

This is not how reincarnation works. The body dies, the soul comes back in a new body. Why does it make any more sense for tomes to die with the body, than it does for them to be kept with the soul?

It isn't? You mean you've reincarnated? How many times have you screwed up such that you keep coming back? Now religion aside, lets deal with facts.

Strength, dexterity, constitution. These are PHYSICAL traits that are BODY dependent. Do we really need to even attempt further reasons why they shouldn't?

Wisdom... Wisdom isn't brain power. Brain power is Intelligence. Your "intelligence" has a great factor with how your own PHYSCIAL brain is. Wisdom is the understanding of what to do with that power. (and with the game, seemingly how understanding of your deity you are. aka Clerics and their wisdom stat.) So I can't argue really either direction on Wisdom as I can see a direct connection there for reincarnation so I'll grant you Wisdom could stick around, but not Intelligence.

This leaves Charisma. At one stage in DnD's life it was an idea of how good one looks. But now it could be how "good" one preforms. Physical traits effect this as much as they way one carries one self. I'm willing to to go 50/50 split of physical and 'spirit', but because of the physical, that dies with the body.

So that gives us, out of 6 stats, 4.5 are physical and 1.5 are "spirit" following.

Now add in the fact that it is easier to code a game such that they all follow the same rule.

You lose the tomes.

[Missing_Minds]

For all those people trying to compare the Reincarnation mechanic to a metaphysical phenomenon that may or may not exist in whatever real world you inhabit, could you please explain why Lesser Reincarnate and Greater Reincarnate don't cause a similar loss?

It sounds kinda arbitrary to me... and just a touch sadistic.

Well... you could consider the lesser and greater as if waking up from a coma and retraining. You are still in the same "body" after all. But due to how touchy a subject that could be, I hope you understand why I don't plan perusing that topic further.

[kernal42]

/signed

...but it should only be applied to tomes that were BTC at the time of eating.

Alternately, Turbine could charge some exorbitant fee for the tome to carry over, like 250kpp for a +2, 500k for a +3, 1 mil for a +4. That would save players work and be a phenomenal plat sink.

Cheers,
Kernal

[steloro]

Well... you could consider the lesser and greater as if waking up from a coma and retraining. You are still in the same "body" after all. But due to how touchy a subject that could be, I hope you understand why I don't plan perusing that topic further.

you say this...but we keep object....why????because before reincarning you go in bank and open a special agreement for the future body????
i don't think so

[rimble]

Forever /signed until the end of days.

Keeping my hard earned loot is fun.

Having to chose between losing my hard earned loot and TRing, or keeping my hard earned loot and not TRing is not fun.

To be clear, I'm referring to +3 and +4 BtC Raid tomes, the ones that really have to be earned (though I guess the really rare non-Raid +3 and +4 tomes, like from Gold coins, should be treated the same way). I also extremely don't understand how getting to keep something you've already ground (grinded?) out is 'easy' mode.

[Thriand]

Well... you could consider the lesser and greater as if waking up from a coma and retraining. You are still in the same "body" after all. But due to how touchy a subject that could be, I hope you understand why I don't plan perusing that topic further.

Or we could stop trying to justify it with real life comparisons as its a game..... In a game no one wants to lose all there hard work getting tomes on top of losing all their favor and having to relevel with more xp, there is more than enough draw back already.


However your real life scenario makes no sense anyway, you can completely change all 6 of your primary attributes AND completely change how your character looks, sounds to me a lot like what you described in your earlier post.

[rest]

If you don't want to lose your tomes, don't TR. Seems pretty simple to me.

I just TRd a character that had eaten a +3 str, dex and con tome, plus +2 for the other stats. I wanted the TR more than I wanted to keep the tomes. I'm pretty sure the developers intended you to lose your tomes while TRing, but keep them when you LR, for a reason.

/not signed

[Missing_Minds]

Make arguments based on game logic and how it would affect the game. Spare me your metaphysical mumbo-jumbo.

Fine. DM said no. End of story. If you want to convince the DM other wise, come up with something more solid than "I want!".

You want it from a coder point of view? Answer: we have no clue. We do not have any direct knowledge of how they have character data setup and stored in the database/s they use. Any one could go "Well it should be easy as it is just as database", and all that shows is how ignorant they are of actual system setups vs. an ideal world.

It is just another form of an "easy" button.

Now, even if we were allowed to keep the stats (it would be nice), it does ZERO, nada, nothing, for me in regards for the desire to peruse a TR. I have no interest in such. In fact doing so would probably actually decrease the amount of money Turbine would pull in. Why? The # of people willing to buy tomes vs. willing to buy a TR. After all, a person who TRs may be willing to pick up a +1 or +2, but if TRs kept their tomes, there goes that chance of money.

[bobbryan2]

Fine. DM said no. End of story. If you want to convince the DM other wise, come up with something more solid than "I want!".

You want it from a coder point of view? Answer: we have no clue. We do not have any direct knowledge of how they have character data setup and stored in the database/s they use. Any one could go "Well it should be easy as it is just as database", and all that shows is how ignorant they are of actual system setups vs. an ideal world.

It is just another form of an "easy" button.

Now, even if we were allowed to keep the stats (it would be nice), it does ZERO, nada, nothing, for me in regards for the desire to peruse a TR. I have no interest in such. In fact doing so would probably actually decrease the amount of money Turbine would pull in. Why? The # of people willing to buy tomes vs. willing to buy a TR. After all, a person who TRs may be willing to pick up a +1 or +2, but if TRs kept their tomes, there goes that chance of money.

Uh... or you could look at the number of people who don't TR due to tome issues... and perhaps they make 'more' money.

You don't know. Turbine doesn't either.

[Missing_Minds]

steloro and Thriand,

As I said, I was not going to discuses that particular further. Be very THANKFUL you do not understand.

[Missing_Minds]

Turbine doesn't either.

Most of that, Turbine could probably data mine to come up with a reasonable answer, honestly.

[Thriand]

What exactly is the penalty to allowing us to keep our tomes? The potential loss of money? I highly doubt that is the case, as I doubt +1 and +2 tome sales are high enough amongst TRs to make up for the additional people who would be buying true hearts and xp potions. But if money is ultimately the issue, then why not charge me to keep my tomes, I'd gladly pay to have an item that allowed me to pull a +3 or a +4 tome off my character to use in a reincarnation.

Honestly if we get to keep all our other rare loot, theres no reason we should be able to keep our tomes. All this has lead to is people tome hoarding for their TRs, which is not good for the game.

[Valindria]

You want it from a coder point of view? Answer: we have no clue. We do not have any direct knowledge of how they have character data setup and stored in the database/s they use. Any one could go "Well it should be easy as it is just as database", and all that shows is how ignorant they are of actual system setups vs. an ideal world.

There is one problem with your coding argument. It has to be stored because if you hover your mouse over a stat it breaks down the total including tomes. Unless I am mistaken tomes show up in the breakdown. What I can't remember off the top of my head is if Tomes and Level ups end up in the same spot. If reading(eating) a tome triggers the system into "leveling up" that stat then it could be hard to determine which stats were increased due to level vs increased due to tome.

[Yaga_Nub]

It's amazing how many of you jumped on my post saying that it has nothing to do with the game when I was actually making the same point of the post that I replied to.

So I guess it's ok to use non-game logic as long as it supports your position, huh? Silly rabbits.

[Missing_Minds]

There is one problem with your coding argument. It has to be stored because if you hover your mouse over a stat it breaks down the total including tomes.

How am I wrong? I never said data was not stored, I stated we do not know how it is stored.

So I guess it's ok to use non-game logic as long as it supports your position, huh? Silly rabbits.

Look at it this way, Yaga. Thriand's last post reduced the thread to "People aren't sharing their loot! How dare they not share what their name is on."

[Phidius]

... What I can't remember off the top of my head is if Tomes and Level ups end up in the same spot. If reading(eating) a tome triggers the system into "leveling up" that stat then it could be hard to determine which stats were increased due to level vs increased due to tome.

They do not - your level ups get added to the "Base", while tomes get added to "Inherent".

I'll own up to being one of those people who are hoarding +3 tomes... I can't speak for "the health of the game", but working so hard for a shiny that I'm "afraid" to use has a definite impact on my enjoyment of the game.

[Jahmin]

/signed

Long over due - and astounding that it went live in this manner in the first place... 'typical turbine' I suppose

[bobbryan2]

It's amazing how many of you jumped on my post saying that it has nothing to do with the game when I was actually making the same point of the post that I replied to.

So I guess it's ok to use non-game logic as long as it supports your position, huh? Silly rabbits.

No, it's not okay. That being said... I'm not gonna jump on someone that is technically agreeing with me. I'd rather leave that to someone that actually disagrees with the person.

In game, or in character justifications for design decisions are always dumb whether they support my position or not.