Petition to keep the bonus from manual with true reincarnation

[dkyle]

No single item makes or breaks a build.

Not always true. My Bard's current build would break without a +3 DEX tome, seeing as she has 14 Base DEX, and is TWF.

[stoolcannon]

Sorry.... this is what I meant.

I am a TR2 that had eaten my +4 str tome in TR1, but kept the +4 benefit in TR2. Let's say we've run an uber quest where I pull another +4 str tome, and you pull an uber weapon. 9 times out of 10, I'm eating that tome. But because I already have, I offer to trade you the tome for the uber weapon. that's what I meant about overpoweredness.

You're still not quite being clear with how you're wording your posts or I'm dumb.

Are you saying that being able to trade the tome in chest makes you overpowered? If so I don't get it.

[dkyle]

Sorry.... this is what I meant.

I am a TR2 that had eaten my +4 str tome in TR1, but kept the +4 benefit in TR2. Let's say we've run an uber quest where I pull another +4 str tome, and you pull an uber weapon. 9 times out of 10, I'm eating that tome. But because I already have, I offer to trade you the tome for the uber weapon. that's what I meant about overpoweredness.

Trades like this are very, very rare. Hardly gamebreaking for them to occur. Not to mention, this is no different than a character that pulled, say, Tharne's Goggles, and already has one, trading it for an item they want.

[Khanyth]

How many people have or would trade a +4 tome for a stat that they want/need, for a weapon?

That's what I mean by it being overpowered. Or if overpowered is the wrong term, then something else

[Missing_Minds]

There's no reason magic that enchants the soul (a possible way to look at tomes) couldn't affect all the bodies that soul ends up residing in. You objections apply equally well to STR, CON, DEX, and INT tomes themselves. Why would reading a book affect physical stats? Easy. It's magic.

Well, looking through the SRD there are three ways I saw it can be looked at. (there really isn't much in detail that I saw with a quick look.)

The TR body is a clone. The TR body is a new body but your body, with which the soul now occupies.

If the idea of the clone is accepted, then sure. I'll agree those tomes could come through. But then you are also having near the exact same body. This kind of kills the premise of the TR, but lends better credence to LR/GRs.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/clone.htm


The TR body is a new body which your soul now occupies. Per Magic Jar,
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicJar.htm
"You keep your Intelligence, Wisdom, Charisma, level, class, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, alignment, and mental abilities. The body retains its Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, hit points, natural abilities, and automatic abilities. "

So no, the argument of "its magic" could possible fail there. It just depends on perspective.

So what about the actual?
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/reincarnate.htm
"It retains any class abilities, feats, or skill ranks it formerly possessed. Its class, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, and hit points are unchanged. Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution scores depend partly on the new body."

The "party dependent" are the racial stat changes, but only the physical ones, so yeah keep the tomes. But the thing to keep in mind, both MJ and R could be seen as a way to re establish a character, not starting a character anew which is what DDO is doing.

As I recall... DDO lore with it as it stands is that everything is burned. Your gear is left (it is a video game) but your body which would be necessary for it is all ash. "So long as some small portion of the creature’s body still exists, it can be reincarnated". There is not enough to retain it. So like the phoenix, you are reborn from fire, fresh and new. DDO lore is supportive of starting from scratch tome wise.

However, I'm pretty certain it can be stated, it really is going to be all or none for how Turbine woud/if implement it. I am still against a standard TR for keeping tomes, but I've got no issue if a Greater TR was created that did allow you to keep tomes as I've previously stated.

[Tobril]

I've got no issue if a Greater TR was created that did allow you to keep tomes as I've previously stated.

Issue resolved.

Get to work developers. *cracks whip*

[Robi3.0]

Possible upside: All the insurance money you collect from the rich guy hitting you.

Just saying.

I doubt you would get much of anything, If you were stupid enough to run out into a busy street as was suggested.

Just saying

[biggin]

I doubt you would get much of anything, If you were stupid enough to run out into a busy street as was suggested.

Just saying

Seriously? You must not live in the US, the place where they had to put warnings on coffee cups because someone at McDonalds dumped one in their lap and didn't know it was going to be hot. $640,000 later.......

Edited for accuracy.

[eonfreon]

How many people have or would trade a +4 tome for a stat that they want/need, for a weapon?

That's what I mean by it being overpowered. Or if overpowered is the wrong term, then something else

Huh? I don't get how it is overpowered or whatever word you're groping for.

Perhaps the word you're looking for would be "beneficial"?

As it stands now, if a +4 Tome generates for me, yes I'll keep it. Because even if I won't use it for a long time or even never, there's always the chance I might reincarnate and use it later. This is part of the grind many of us object to, having to stockpile Tomes in case we want to reincarnate again and again.

If it was changed and I could keep my Tomes, then yes I would likely trade it or even give it away in the chest, just as I do any piece of raid loot which is in that chest which I already have. There's generally no point to having two. There are some exceptions of course. Many people like having more then one pair of Madstone Boots for instance. As well as Loot that can be upgraded to Epic. Since it can only be used when you hit level 20 it is nice to have the lesser version for lower levels.

I don't see the problem with this. Yes, more people would have Tomes, because the need to hoard would go away.

I don't really see that as a bad thing.

[Robi3.0]

Seriously? You must not live in the US, the place where they had to put warnings on coffee cups because someone at McDonalds dumped one in their lap and didn't know it was going to be hot. $640,000 later.......

Edited for accuracy.

I do live in the US, but my point was that a person that is stupid enough to run out into a busy street wont get anything if they happen to get hit by a car, as it was there fault.

Secondly, That law suit was won, because it was proven that McDonald's was heating their coffee all the to nearly boiling or passed can't remember the exact temperature, then handing it out the window to people. Coffee does not need to almost 215 degrees in order to brew. McDonald's was being irresponsible and at fault. The problem was not that the coffee was hot it was that the coffee was so hot that it caused 3rd degree burns.

EDIT: Also she did win a settlement Mcdonald's settled out of court.

link to case info http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm

/consider yourself informed

[Hendrik]

Don't want to loose Tomes when you Reincarnate?

Then just Greater.

[Missing_Minds]

Seriously? You must not live in the US, the place where they had to put warnings on coffee cups because someone at McDonalds dumped one in their lap and didn't know it was going to be 3rd degree burn causing even though McDonalds was aware it could. $680,000 later.......

Edited for accuracy.

Edited again.

http://www.caoc.com/CA/index.cfm?eve...wPage&pg=facts

[eonfreon]

Don't want to loose Tomes when you Reincarnate?

Then just Greater.

The thing is I want to do a True Reincarnate and keep my Tomes.

I know, I know it'll never happen. Just like 28 point characters will never be able to respec as 32 point characters.

Oh wait.....

[dkyle]

Don't want to loose Tomes when you Reincarnate?

Then just Greater.

Of course!

That'll totally let me turn my Human into a HOrc, gain past life benefits, increase build points, advance towards completionist, or when Druid comes out, allow a completionist to get completionist back.

[biggin]

I do live in the US, but my point was that a person that is stupid enough to run out into a busy street wont get anything if they happen to get hit by a car, as it was there fault.

Secondly, That law suit was won, because it was proven that McDonald's was heating their coffee all the to nearly boiling or passed can't remember the exact temperature, then handing it out the window to people. Coffee does not need to almost 215 degrees in order to brew. McDonald's was being irresponsible and at fault. The problem was not that the coffee was hot it was that the coffee was so hot that it caused 3rd degree burns.

EDIT: Also she did win a settlement Mcdonald's settled out of court.

link to case info http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm

/consider yourself informed

LOL, so it's your contention that all other coffee should be able to be poured onto your crotch without harm? Could I please, please, please get a screen shot of this?

Yes, she won 2.8 mil, then it got dropped to 640k, then there were behind closed door wheeling and dealing.

Liebeck v. McDonald's Restaurants,[1] also known as the McDonald's coffee case and the hot coffee lawsuit, is a 1994 product liability lawsuit that became a flashpoint in the debate in the U.S. over tort reform after a jury awarded $2.86 million to a woman who burned herself with hot coffee she purchased from fast food restaurant McDonald's. The trial judge reduced the total award to $640,000, and the parties settled for a confidential amount before an appeal was decided. The case was noted by some as an example of frivolous litigation;[2] ABC News calls the case “the poster child of excessive lawsuits.”[3]

Liebeck's attorneys argued that McDonald's coffee was "defective", claiming that it was too hot and more likely to cause serious injury than coffee served at any other place. Moreover, McDonald's had refused several prior opportunities to settle for less than the $640,000 ultimately awarded.[4] Reformers defend the popular understanding of the case as materially accurate, note that the vast majority of judges who consider similar cases dismiss them before they get to a jury,[5] and argue that McDonald's refusal to offer more than a nuisance settlement reflects the meritless nature of the suit rather than any wrongdoing.[6][7][8]

Not trying to flame or troll, just saying you can sue for anything and probably win.

[Robi3.0]

LOL, so it's your contention that all other coffee should be able to be poured onto your crotch without harm? Could I please, please, please get a screen shot of this?

Yes, she won 2.8 mil, then it got dropped to 640k, then there were behind closed door wheeling and dealing.

Liebeck v. McDonald's Restaurants,[1] also known as the McDonald's coffee case and the hot coffee lawsuit, is a 1994 product liability lawsuit that became a flashpoint in the debate in the U.S. over tort reform after a jury awarded $2.86 million to a woman who burned herself with hot coffee she purchased from fast food restaurant McDonald's. The trial judge reduced the total award to $640,000, and the parties settled for a confidential amount before an appeal was decided. The case was noted by some as an example of frivolous litigation;[2] ABC News calls the case “the poster child of excessive lawsuits.”[3]

Liebeck's attorneys argued that McDonald's coffee was "defective", claiming that it was too hot and more likely to cause serious injury than coffee served at any other place. Moreover, McDonald's had refused several prior opportunities to settle for less than the $640,000 ultimately awarded.[4] Reformers defend the popular understanding of the case as materially accurate, note that the vast majority of judges who consider similar cases dismiss them before they get to a jury,[5] and argue that McDonald's refusal to offer more than a nuisance settlement reflects the meritless nature of the suit rather than any wrongdoing.[6][7][8]

Not trying to flame or troll, just saying you can sue for anything and probably win.

I don't believe that I ever stated my opinion on the case, but whatever, enjoy the neg rep.

EDIT:

P.S. If you have to end a post with "Sorry I am not trying to troll" chances are you probably shouldn't post it in the first place.

[Valindria]

There are a ton of posts in here but I think of it this way:

- I read the book and gain knowledge. If I read it again I am just refreshing the knowledge I already had (so reading a +2 again wouldn't give me another +2)

- If I started a new life (TR) the book would still be in my posession with all my loot only my knowledge is gone so when I read it I gain the benefit.


I guess I don't see it as a bad thing to put the tomes a toon as read in the TR bank to read again on the next life. If it is a coding issue I guess I understand it but I don't see it as something that makes sense to lose on TR.

[dkyle]

LOL, so it's your contention that all other coffee should be able to be poured onto your crotch without harm? Could I please, please, please get a screen shot of this?

It's reasonable to expect pain when accidentally pouring coffee on oneself. Possibly first degree burns. But third degree burns, from coffee that has been heated past brewing temperature?

If she had been handed a normal temperature coffee, and spilled it, she wouldn't have had a case. We know the risks of hot beverages, and we accept them. She was handed a coffee of far higher temperature than a normal hot beverage. The damage she suffered was more than she could have expected from a spill of that nature, and McDonalds is responsible for that extra damage.

[biggin]

I don't believe that I ever stated my opinion on the case, but whatever, enjoy the neg rep.

EDIT:

P.S. If you have to end a post with "Sorry I am not trying to troll" chances are you probably shouldn't post it in the first place.

No, chances are I'm trying to have an off topic fun debate about something that doesn't really matter with someone who takes things too seriously. I guess I should put smiley faces every other word for emphasis? Oh well, neg rep me all you like, I won't even send one back in return. Now would you please pour some coffee in your lap? <----- this means I'm joking in case you don't get it.

[kernal42]

But that's what is being presented, no?

Player eats a +4 tome. They TR. Can they never eat another tome related to that stat again?

In which case, it's AH'd for overpricedness, or it's traded/roll on in chest.

So, it's either overpowered for stats, or abused for plat/gear


/notsigned again

No one has ever been asking for it to stack, and nobody but you has thought that it will. Stop suggesting that it's the case.

The tomes behave exactly like any other raid loot before TR: they're BTC so you can't AH them, but you can still trade them in chest, good.

The difference is that, unlike all other raid loot, they disappear after TR. So your argument that they'd be abused for plat/gear is already overshadowed by regular raid loot of TRs being traded for plat/gear. Fortunately, this is not an issue for gear, so it probably would not be an issue for tomes either.

-Kernal