Petition to keep the bonus from manual with true reincarnation

[Tobril]

Dear developers:

Please take my stuff.

Thank you.

[Tholar]

I will have to not sign off on this one.

It just wouldn't make sense, I still can't make sense of why you even keep them on a LR or GR.

Perhaps it is because LR or GR is designed to be a way for a player to fix a mistake or change the style they wish to play without making the character inherently more powerful.

TR's on the other hand are more powerful than the normal character. You are starting completely over with this new character. Turbine was nice enough to let you keep your equipment, I think this is even stretching it a bit.

I am trying to think in a common sense way, not in a "I want" or "I deserve" kind of way. I would love to have everything from before, but it just doesn't make sense to me.

If your tomes carried over from before, because your character remembers that much. Then I would like to have my spells back on my new shiny barbarian. I did learn them in my past life after all.

[AylinIsAwesome]

I am trying to think in a common sense way, not in a "I want" or "I deserve" kind of way. I would love to have everything from before, but it just doesn't make sense to me.

It should be common sense, since bigger profits for Turbine and happier players is a win-win for everyone here.

If your tomes carried over from before, because your character remembers that much. Then I would like to have my spells back on my new shiny barbarian. I did learn them in my past life after all.

Tomes =/= spells.

Bring them up is totally irrelevant.

[eonfreon]

The main problem being that some of these tomes (in my case ALL) were aquired before the TR option was even conceived. Why wouldn't it have been eaten? I had a +3 tome that was BtC. What else were you suppose to do with it? Put it in the bank and look at it??? "My preciousssssssssss......" :P

Yes, I'm in the same boat.

The loss of Tomes AND the extra XP needed to TR coupled together arethe reasons why I don't TR and thus don't play enough currently to give me any reason to spend money on Turbine.

But I'm sure Turbine considers that our personal "problem". As long as it's perceived that Turbine can extend the game life and gain more money from the system staying the same, then the system will stay the same.

Heck, Turbine doesn't even have to put forth any arguement for the status quo, many players are more then happy to do it for them as they scream out "easy button" and "hard choices" and "reroll" and "you should have known it would be nerfed", etc.

Like I said, I remember the heated debates over being able to start a new character with 32 points without having to unlock 1750 Favor. Or respecing mistakes. Or respecing your character because Turbine changed some rule and you wouldn't create your character the same if you knew the rule was going to change, in fact you may wind up far worse off.

As soon as it is found to be profitable to allow some way to keep or regenerate Tomes for a TR, then it will be available.

Just like everything else as become available.

[Tobril]

@haters - Since you are opposed to keeping tomes, how about we take away any BtC equipment? It isn't "yours" anymore, you are a new person. They buried all your ancestors raid loot and lit it on fire with him/her.

Have fun re-earning it!

[biggin]

You were a battle Cleric, so you get the Cleric past life feat.

You used a STR tome, so you...get WIS?


That doesn't make any sense.

Nevermind. If you are just going to pull one sentence out of context per post there is no point in debating this.

[stoolcannon]

I think when we TR we should lose all of our gear too. It makes us too powerful and really if we did die we know people are just going to make off with all of our stuff and pass it down to our relatives. And if we are so lucky as to be buried with our loot someone will just rob our graves. Perhaps a random loot destroyer would be appropriate to simulate grave robbery. When we TR we lose 75% of our gear randomly. That would be awesome and realistic.

We should also not get past life feats or extra stat points because that will also make us too powerful.

It should also be randomized when we TR, maybe we get more build points, maybe fewer. We all know that birth is natural and full of random chance and we wouldn't want to upset the balance of nature by having someone come out better every single time. We should probably have a few characters born with some defects etc. Realism all the way.

At the same time, I don't think we should get base build points as we level up either. 5 level points is too much and makes us too powerful. And how is a book going to make me stronger anyway, no more Str tomes.

[kernal42]

FACT: Turbine makes money on every True Heart of Wood that is purchased. Debatable actually. We do not know what the cost was to actually get the code and items into the data base, tested, reviewed, etc. Has the purchase of TRs overcome this cost yet? Also, VIPs get TP every month. They can just store off that and use it to buy a TR. How much money was actually made?

You're confusing yourself. Turbine does, in fact, make money off of every True Heart sold. You're suggesting they may not yet have made a net profit considering their initial investment of coding time etc. That may be true, but it's irrelevant. That investment is in the past; the question now is how much money is made via selling True Hearts (and possibly lowbie adventure packs for TR chars).

Considering the VIP TP is reasonable, especially considering Aylin specified that Turbine profited off of "every" True Heart sold. Determining the profit from VIPs buying True Hearts is difficult, but suffice it to say that Turbine does make money off of every True Heart sold to a Premium player. That statement should make it clear that it is in Turbine's financial interest to encourage players to TR. Keeping BTC tomes through TR is one way to do this.

Cheers,
Kernal

[dkyle]

It isn't? You mean you've reincarnated?

I'm referring to the standard Fantasy-setting/Religious definitions of Reincarnation, which True Reincarnation seems to be inspired by. Your notion that reincarnation is an entirely different person who simply inherits, as through a will, the original character's gear is not supported by D&D lore, or real-world belief analogs.

I never said I believed in reincarnation as a real thing. I'm simply pointing out that your definition of reincarnation is not a standard definition.

Strength, dexterity, constitution. These are PHYSICAL traits that are BODY dependent. Do we really need to even attempt further reasons why they shouldn't?
[...]
Your "intelligence" has a great factor with how your own PHYSCIAL brain is.

There's no reason magic that enchants the soul (a possible way to look at tomes) couldn't affect all the bodies that soul ends up residing in. You objections apply equally well to STR, CON, DEX, and INT tomes themselves. Why would reading a book affect physical stats? Easy. It's magic.

So that gives us, out of 6 stats, 4.5 are physical and 1.5 are "spirit" following.

Any stat could be justified, in-game, to be effected by a magical effect of the soul. Your limited imagination is not a good reason to reject the OP's proposal.

But this lore argument is irrelevant. I respond simply to point out that lore can match the proposed mechanics just as well as it matches the current mechanics. Mechanics should be determined by what mechanics make sense in terms of game design. And forcing people to choose between "finalizing" their character with tomes, and TR, is a lousy mechanical design.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Nevermind. If you are just going to pull one sentence out of context per post there is no point in debating this.

What is there to debate?

Your proposed solution doesn't do anything to solve the problem. It's good for some players, but anyone who has two or more important stats or is playing a class and isn't maxing the "main" stat for that class gets screwed in your system.

[Tobril]

And how is a book going to make me stronger anyway, no more Str tomes.

STR tomes are actually made of lead and written in 2000pt font so the book is actually 10 feet tall. Turning those heavy pages and looking at the pretty pictures is a pretty hefty workout.

[Gunga]

They need to just pop the highest inherent bonus you've eaten for each stat into the reincarnation bank.

Tomes are as much loot as anythink else in DDO. They shouldn't have special treatment.

You get the Big Shiny Brain award.

Do this.

/signed

[stoolcannon]

I also petition that axes and spells be removed from the game. Spells especially since they just don't make sense. I mean we all know there's no such thing as magic.

Sheesh people we're going for realism here.

[eonfreon]

I think when we TR we should lose all of our gear too. It makes us too powerful and really if we did die we know people are just going to make off with all of our stuff and pass it down to our relatives. And if we are so lucky as to be buried with our loot someone will just rob our graves. Perhaps a random loot destroyer would be appropriate to simulate grave robbery. When we TR we lose 75% of our gear randomly. That would be awesome and realistic.

We should also not get past life feats or extra stat points because that will also make us too powerful.

It should also be randomized when we TR, maybe we get more build points, maybe fewer. We all know that birth is natural and full of random chance and we wouldn't want to upset the balance of nature by having someone come out better every single time. We should probably have a few characters born with some defects etc. Realism all the way.

At the same time, I don't think we should get base build points as we level up either. 5 level points is too much and makes us too powerful. And how is a book going to make me stronger anyway, no more Str tomes.

Hey I remember AD&D you could easily come back as a badger.
No one in their right mind ever went through a Reincarnation. You just played your hireling until the DM could put together a quest to get you Raised. Or took almost all your gear as payment to some Cleric's deity.

[stoolcannon]

STR tomes are actually made of lead and written in 2000pt font so the book is actually 10 feet tall. Turning those heavy pages and looking at the pretty pictures is a pretty hefty workout.

Ahhhhh that explains why my wizard got burdened when he picked up a str tome from a chest. Bit of irony, that one.

[stoolcannon]

Anything else I'm missing that needs to be removed? Ah guild ships! It doesn't even have a balloon or an engine. Gotta go, too unrealistic.

[Khanyth]

My opinion:

You ate the tome. It's gone. Let it go. It's not coming back. There's a cost/benefit to every decision in DDO. When you TR, this is one of them.

/not signed

Again.... jmho

[Tobril]

My opinion:

You ate the tome. It's gone. Let it go. It's not coming back. There's a cost/benefit to every decision in DDO. When you TR, this is one of them.

/not signed

Again.... jmho

Spoken like someone without +3 and +4 tomes waiting in the bank for...someday...

[Eschelon]

/signed

A reason that I find to allow the tomes to carry over is it reduces the likelihood of losing something you earned. Most +3 and +4 tomes come from the 20th reward list on higher level raids. This is not an easy button but the ability to use an earned item without having to worry about losing it. All my 3/4 tomes just sit collecting dust until my potentially final tr...so maybe 2 years from now. I can only speak for myself but that is not fun for me.

If turbine allowed tomes to carry over I believe it would keep many power gamers that are not willing to lose those higher tomes occupied and in the game. Either way you end up with unhappy customers, but I wonder how long those against keeping tomes will wail against the change as I don't understand how it effects them in a bad way. Those for the change however are more likely to get angry, bitter, and complain which does not have a good effect on players or turbines ability to make money.

With only Turbine able to show numbers on this issue in regards to direct sales, that avenue is moot unless the data is released which is highly unlikely.

[eonfreon]

My opinion:

You ate the tome. It's gone. Let it go. It's not coming back. There's a cost/benefit to every decision in DDO. When you TR, this is one of them.

/not signed

Again.... jmho

I respect your opinion. And I counter it with mine:
Let us keep our Tomes, please.
Pretty please.