Stupid questiong about XP GRIND

[redraider]

/not signed

Some of the past lives are already pretty strong (such as +2 spell pen) and they are ALL OPTIONAL. There is no reason to do them at all unless you are trying to squeeze a few more stat points into a build or using the past lives to augment a build.

There is no content in this game denied to you if you do not TR. Dont like it? Dont do it.

Toku, I think you miss the biggest point. Many of us TR, not to add 2 points to stats or 2 SP, many of us TR to play that favorite toon again without having to run the equipment grind. Hell, give us an option to TR with no XP hit and no extra points or past life and many would take it over the current system.

[Dunklerlindwurm]

Just can't find a group for Shadow Lord and you can't solo that one.

You can solo it With a hireling.
Just park him at the lever. Target the lever and go to the door. Then tell your hireling to use the lever.

Same with all the other levers in the Quest.

Just make sure you take the upper doorway where you dont have to go over the bridge.

[Lorz]

Op...why do you make is such a grind?

Running the same quest back to back 11 times.....why?

I know what your gonna answer XP..but why...there are plenty of other quests......and before you jump to conclusions...realize if been Tring toons for over a year now. I have done TR2 and TR1s multiple times. the grind is not as bad if you spread it around some. Doing it all osame quests maybe the most efficient, but it is the most unfun. Just a thought.

Currently im on a TR2. At one week in I should be at lvl 12-13. It will me between 2-3 weeks total time to cap the TR2. (occasionally I have to run a raid/epic on another toon.). The point being....is the grind is not so bad if you mix it up.

My $0.02 worth.

[blitzschlag]

Oh yes, of course, why didn't I think of this? Since you only need like 4,4m xp, which is with 500xp/min (nowhere near sustainable) is ONLY 146,6 hours of grinding. Wow, this really worths the grind suddenly for like 5% heal amp or +2 to spell pen (and now I'm not talking about like cleric past life or something).

Soooo, for the meagre investment of 1319,4 gaming hours you really get +9 spell pen and +60 sp. Awesome deal! You should go for president!

Think about it. The investment is >> than the reward. Cut down the xp needed for trs or at least double/triple the rewards.

its not often someone comes to the board and posts 100% drivel. thank you for that.

as has been said: don't like it, don't do it. there is ppl that tr for benefit with a plan and there is ppl that tr because they think its mandatory or elite. the latter ones come here and whine.

[ToKu]

Toku, I think you miss the biggest point. Many of us TR, not to add 2 points to stats or 2 SP, many of us TR to play that favorite toon again without having to run the equipment grind. Hell, give us an option to TR with no XP hit and no extra points or past life and many would take it over the current system.

Again, unless im missing something the OP's claim that he had to run each GH quest 11 times on normal seems wrong. Again, other then occasionally running a few quests multiple times on elite (because it was worthwhile to do) the TR's in my guild have not had to repeat any quests at all until the final climb from 16 to cap.

If you TR because of the joy of leveling your char again then why does it matter if it takes a little longer?

[vVAnjilaVv]

Oh yes, of course, why didn't I think of this? Since you only need like 4,4m xp, which is with 500xp/min (nowhere near sustainable) is ONLY 146,6 hours of grinding.

I shared a somewhat similar attitude.....however your wrong on this. There are a lot of pro levelers out there and they can sustain higher than 500 XP/min quite easily.

It requires that you really really know what your doing tho, and a lot of times leveling with a great group of people that have a likewise goal. Some people tho can solo level very fast.....you just have to have a pre-determined game plan.

This in itself kills a lot of the fun for me tho...the game is really supposed to be played IMO with a wondrous whoa this is cool mentality instead of a mechanical industrialized predetermined at every step of the way mentality.

Actually I would say I have a mix of those attitudes when leveling, like I said before sometimes I just like to enjoy playing, and sometimes I just want XP fast.

I never ever worry about being left behind by speed levelers either, because in the end, they aren't really going anywhere.

[sweez]

The XP in Amarath is so low in proportion to the quest length that I just find grinding what are actually pretty well designed quests... tedious.

Err? Both Sins and Invasion have a pretty decent xp/minute ratio imho.

[Templarion]

I agree 100%. Re-read my first paragraph - I am rather contemptuous of the whole TR process itself. As near as I can tell they introduced it as a cheap way to keep people playing while they worked on content, having neglected the game for so long. And people bought into it because they had nothing else to do.

More content was the answer, not more ways to grind the existing content.

That explains something. Still... I don't understand why they increased the experience curve. Isn't normal grind from 1-20 enough?

Think about it. The investment is >> than the reward. Cut down the xp needed for trs or at least double/triple the rewards.

Exactly my thoughts. Of course, some of the rewards are better but I don't see a reason for the extra experience. Maybe cut down the rewards and the experience?

There is no content in this game denied to you if you do not TR. Dont like it? Dont do it.

As I said before, I don't like DDO's end game content. Without TR option I would have quitted this game a long time ago. And stop saying farewells... I am not giving up, yet.

I dread getting to lvl 16 and starting to grind the vale and amarath. I have so ground that small number of quests that I don't look forward to them at all. The XP in Amarath is so low in proportion to the quest length that I just find grinding what are actually pretty well designed quests... tedious.

DDO needs another 40 or so quests above lvl 16. Come on Devs!

Well... there would be enough end-game content if the experience curve didn't go sky-high.



Can someone, please, estimate what would happen if True Reincarnated characters had exactly the same experience requirements as normal characters? Would that be so horrible?

[Templarion]

If you TR because of the joy of leveling your char again then why does it matter if it takes a little longer?

I enjoy leveling. Yes. But it becomes boring when there is no challenge and you can play it with left hand only and blind.

I have plans. I love planning and thinking and solving problems. I would like to put my plans into practice. In real world I have to work for them. Why do I have to work in game world, also?

[Dunklerlindwurm]

"I enjoy leveling. Yes. But it becomes boring when there is no challenge and you can play it with left hand only and blind."


How does lowering the amount of xp needed for TRing make the game more challenging?

[ToKu]

I enjoy leveling. Yes. But it becomes boring when there is no challenge and you can play it with left hand only and blind.

I have plans. I love planning and thinking and solving problems. I would like to put my plans into practice. In real world I have to work for them. Why do I have to work in game world, also?

Uh.. is there somehow more challenge if there is less xp TR'n? The more you type the more it sounds like you just want an easy mode to powering through TR. Hell you are already pre-geared as you TR, reducing the challenge even further.

You have not given any good reasons why a reduction in TR xp would be good.

That said... IF they had an option where you could TR with no increased XP but you also gained nothing from it (no feats, past life or paid, no bonus to stats), would you be interested?

[Rasczak]

There should only be one heart available a week. Everyone looking to TR has to jump into a ring and wade through loads of mobs and bosses and the first one who gets to the end gets to loot the heart and TR......

In all seriousness it depends on gameplay. If you are unhappy with endgame then surely the lowbie/midbie levelling is what you want and so grinding a quest 10 times n/h/e is defeating the point?

If you like stats and wings around your name then the window grind is your ticket and you zerg the levels to try reach lvl 20 as quickly as possible.

The grind comes when you are unsure on what you want. You can't enjoy the levelling and run quests over and over, that is for people who enjoy the end result. Take a break from gh and go do something else, or if you want to hit it so many times do a full circuit of all 9 quests, collect rewards and go again. Breaking it up helps......and when you need a break, get your bum into CC and find me my docent...there's a grind I can't avoid or enjoy

[Lord_WC]

"I enjoy leveling. Yes. But it becomes boring when there is no challenge and you can play it with left hand only and blind."


How does lowering the amount of xp needed for TRing make the game more challenging?

Um, how does running a quest 11 times instead of 3 adds to challenge? For a tr, on level quests is not challenging. And, since good and fast xp is scarce on higher levels, where you need a lot, you really want to do quests one level above.

So, the current tr setup rewards running easy quests on a powerful toon with multiple repeats.

That suggestion with no past life feat for no added xp certanly sounds fine.

[Dunklerlindwurm]

Um, how does running a quest 11 times instead of 3 adds to challenge? For a tr, on level quests is not challenging. And, since good and fast xp is scarce on higher levels, where you need a lot, you really want to do quests one level above.

So, the current tr setup rewards running easy quests on a powerful toon with multiple repeats.

That suggestion with no past life feat for no added xp certanly sounds fine.

Exactly. TR is supposed to be a time sink not a challenge.

The suggestion with no past life feat for no added xp sounds fine yes. But i doubt he would do it without gaining anything from it.
For me it sounds more like he wants multible TRs without grinding for it.

The Question is....what will you do once you reach your "TR goal" and you dont like end game?

[Templarion]

Uh.. is there somehow more challenge if there is less xp TR'n?

No. There is not. That would be only an easy solution. Personally, I would like to see permadeath mode and other fancy stuff suggested here in forums but that's gonna happen - at least not in near future.

No, my suggestion will not happen either. At least I have said something, I would gladly do some coding too but I think devs don't let me.

I am starting to see some sparks around here. It is not a suprise. Before fire and flames is all I see...

Could someone answer to my main question: What happens if leveling true reincarnated character is as easy as normal character? And are the consequences that horrible it should not be done?

The Question is....what will you do once you reach your "TR goal" and you dont like end game?

I would TR again.

[ToKu]

No. There is not. That would be only an easy solution. Personally, I would like to see permadeath mode and other fancy stuff suggested here in forums but that's gonna happen - at least not in near future.

Whats to stop you from playing but those rules or restricting yourself in order to challenge yourself? Your saying you could only play a permadeath toon if it was programmed into the game and not by your own personal code?

Could someone answer to my main question: What happens if leveling true reincarnated character is as easy as normal character? And are the consequences that horrible it should not be done?

The gains of TR'n are substancial, if it became easier it would esentially become "leveling beyond 20." It would also devalue the accomplishment of being a TR in the first place.

Also realize Turbine is a business out to make money. If the TR grind was no harder then a toons first run, then there would absolutely no reason to invest in xp pots. Turbine loses a cash flow and gains nothing out of it.

[Lord_WC]

Could someone answer to my main question: What happens if leveling true reincarnated character is as easy as normal character? And are the consequences that horrible it should not be done?

They won't answer this question, because it does not really support the 'grind till your eyes bleed' cause.

The answer is simple: absolutely nothing. Since everyone would be able to achieve it. Having double/triple xp or even half, doesn't matter the least bit regarding game balance.

Timesinkwise, well maybe you finish with the game once and for all 3 months earlier if you went for completionist. Probably this is the only reason why we will never see it happen. Which is rather funny as long time players tend to stay because of the social aspect not getting the badassest toon around.

Probably more players would run 1-19 quests, probably there would be less friction between just started and multiple tr players.

Maybe new builds would show up factoring in past life feats.

[dunklezhan]

Could someone answer to my main question: What happens if leveling true reincarnated character is as easy as normal character? And are the consequences that horrible it should not be done?

I would TR again.

The answers, to me, are obvious Temp - but must come caveated with the knowledge that I generaly don't like the TR mechanic at all, so am very biased indeed. Please add a whole shovel full of salt in interpreting my views here (a mere pinch of salt simply won't cut it, I suspect):

People would acheive completionist much sooner, and characters generally throughout the game would be more powerful. People on their first life would be welcome only in non-TR groups because they'd be too underpowered, and content would need to be ramped up in difficulty to cope, thereby making nonTR characters even less welcome.

Of course, this will all happen with things as they are, and were most likely destined to happen as soon as they introduced the rather broken idea of TR in the first place - but it will take longer as things stand now, and hopefully allow the introduction of so much more new content beforehand that the impact will be limited.

The introduction of the TR mechanic has already introduced an escalating circle of despair, just like to hit numbers have done with AC, which they won't be able to fully resolve ever. All they can do now is mitigate the impact. Reducing the XP amounts required would allow less time to introduce the mitigations.

Best case scenario if they lowered the XP levels involved to the same as 1st life characters is more noobs with powerful characters able to mask their noobishness by sheer power. Vets will stop TRing at all because they learn that not being TR'd actually marks them out as something different, and the content is more challenging without the extra power anyway.

[Dunklerlindwurm]

Could someone answer to my main question: What happens if leveling true reincarnated character is as easy as normal character? And are the consequences that horrible it should not be done?

Things i see happening then are.(Not saying they are good or bad)

1. Powergamers would get to the max numbers of TR very quick and the result of that are bored with the game.

2. People who TRed alot already for 4,3 million xp would get angry because another easy button is added to the game and they more or less "wasted" their time doing all the 4,3 million xp TRs before

3. Some people who require GS weapons in normal shrouds already would also say: Only double TRs in normal shroud only!! Because its so easy to have a double TR now.

[Templarion]

The answers, to me, are obvious Temp - but must come caveated with the knowledge that I generaly don't like the TR mechanic at all, so am very biased indeed. Please add a whole shovel full of salt in interpreting my views here (a mere pinch of salt simply won't cut it, I suspect):

People would acheive completionist much sooner, and characters generally throughout the game would be more powerful. People on their first life would be welcome only in non-TR groups because they'd be too underpowered, and content would need to be ramped up in difficulty to cope, thereby making nonTR characters even less welcome.

Of course, this will all happen with things as they are, and were most likely destined to happen as soon as they introduced the rather broken idea of TR in the first place - but it will take longer as things stand now, and hopefully allow the introduction of so much more new content beforehand that the impact will be limited.

The introduction of the TR mechanic has already introduced an escalating circle of despair, just like to hit numbers have done with AC, which they won't be able to fully resolve ever. All they can do now is mitigate the impact. Reducing the XP amounts required would allow less time to introduce the mitigations.

Best case scenario if they lowered the XP levels involved to the same as 1st life characters is more noobs with powerful characters able to mask their noobishness by sheer power. Vets will stop TRing at all because they learn that not being TR'd actually marks them out as something different, and the content is more challenging without the extra power anyway.

Excellent! Thank you. That was actually fun to read. I like doomsday theories.

So... DDO is doomed... because of TR-mechanic. So... they should remove it. But they cannot because soon they would lack of players. Lowering XP curve would also do that or maybe even break the game. Hmmh.