Why isn't your Barbarian a Half Orc?

[Linenoise2]

Strange, I am always asked why my HOrk Monk is not a Barbarian...my answer, of course, is "Because she is not a halfling!"

[Mistycball]

I laughed out loud at this. You do not NEED a wf to tank those raids EVER. Certain party configs make completing some raids and some epic raids easier if you have toasters in the group. There are numorous other party configs that work too depending on the skill level of the pug. The reason i point this out is not to pick on your it is to educate. The ammount of need WF to tank for vod LFMs is disgusting and If people do not comment on this misconceptionit will never get better.



and I agree with this part.

yup i refer to all lfg searching a wf for tanking it. i tank suulu on vod with a human fighter without problem (drinking 40-50 curse removal pots.)
So im only talking who ppl wants to tank because its more confortable to play and the party....

[stainer]

Correct




Correct

Yes

It is only minimally funny when Arkat does it.

[NeutronStar]

It is only minimally funny when Arkat does it.

Yes

[Chai]

The same reason why my rogue and dark monk are not halflings. I like to play combinations others dont play. The one popular thing I did roll, my dwarf barbarian, will soon be a minority as well.

[Gunga]

Turbine has created a situation where, if you swing a weapon, you should be HORC.

Period.

There are no good reasons not to be.

[Chai]

Couple points of str and a few PA enhancements and everyones got their man panties in a bundle. Alot of min maxers will likely be parents 9 months or so after the release of hOrcs. It will be the pixelated Scandinavian snow storm.

[grodon9999]

There are no good reasons not to be.

Nerf-resistance?

[Gunga]

Nerf-resistance?

You're just going to tr anyway.

Why not be the highest dps at the moment?

[grodon9999]

Couple points of str and a few PA enhancements and everyones got their man panties in a bundle. Alot of min maxers will likely be parents 9 months or so after the release of hOrcs. It will be the pixelated Scandinavian snow storm.

But Gunga is right, it's the best choice for ANY DPS build for anything other than aesthetic reasons.

If you want HP/Immunties for tanking there are some reasons to go for something else but as far as damage-dealing goes it's one-sided. HO FTW in all cases.

[grodon9999]

You're just going to tr anyway.

Why not be the highest dps at the moment?

In your case I'm sure it's the Red Dragon scale docent.

[Chai]

But Gunga is right, it's the best choice for ANY DPS build for anything other than aesthetic reasons.

If you want HP/Immunties for tanking there are some reasons to go for something else but as far as damage-dealing goes it's one-sided. HO FTW in all cases.

Sure, if we interpret success of a build in terms of DPS only, and min max for nothing but DPS.

hOrc may very well be the khopesh of 2010, where people are called noobs and accused of having fun at other peoples expense because they are another race.

I like to think most players dont feel the need to prop themselves up by displaying a + net DPS difference in vacuum calcs due to racial choice, heh. But I have already heard the chat banter in game of those who feel they need to. On the boards its one thing, but in game, people are usually alot cooler.

Its usually low level banter though. Most of these kids can be taken to school when it comes to actual play, and dropped off at the Discovery Zone afterwards previous to throwing up a channel LFM for somethign serious.

[Emili]

Sure, if we interpret success of a build in terms of DPS only, and min max for nothing but DPS.

hOrc may very well be the khopesh of 2010, where people are called noobs and accused of having fun at other peoples expense because they are another race.

I like to think most players dont feel the need to prop themselves up by displaying a + net DPS difference in vacuum calcs due to racial choice, heh. But I have already heard the chat banter in game of those who feel they need to. On the boards its one thing, but in game, people are usually alot cooler.

Its usually low level banter though. Most of these kids can be taken to school when it comes to actual play, and dropped off at the Discovery Zone afterwards previous to throwing up a channel LFM for somethign serious.

I certainly cannot make assumptions on some character's DPS, survivability or anything really by it's race... I tanked VoD yesterday on my human barb over a WF barb for reasons.

1.) the WF was new to the quest.
2.) The WF in group was nowhere near the gear my old human had...

... so what do you do? If the WF in group had better HP and DPS would have left them take the position as a new experience, but went with the less risky option.

I would add however... given like gearing across the board stat-wise a H-orc barb makes another race in such class pale. Is deffinately true of anything wielding 2-handers and generally speaking twf giving DPS key element of melee. If one views a barbs purpose as DPS the H-Orc has it down. HP, Immunities and Healing amp are secondaries in light of this... I stated such on Lammania while playing around with the race before it was released live.

Now! am not putting that H-orc in the hands of some newbie... let's put it in the hands of an experienced player, who built, dwarf barbs, wf barbs and human barbs - what makes you think or imagine they would not know how to survive on a H-Orc just as well without 10-50hp, immunities or healing amp? Hate to say it you're wrong ... an experienced player adjusts and makes the toon work.

[grodon9999]

Sure, if we interpret success of a build in terms of DPS only, and min max for nothing but DPS.

Chai, my two main toons are an out-dated Exploiter ranger and a TWF Stalwart-Defender hate-tank. I'm well aware of what you can get by sacrificing DPS for other stuff.

But this is the BARBARIAN forum. Barbarians are meant to kill/destroy/maim/deal damage. Gunga put it best, why not do as much DPS as possible? Going dorf/WF get you some HP and over-rated immunities. Barbs have tons of HP, so you can get 850 instead of 950 as a Horc, it's SO much squishier now

hOrc may very well be the khopesh of 2010, where people are called noobs and accused of having fun at other peoples expense because they are another race.

I haven't seen that yet and don't expect anyone with 1/2 brain to do so otherwise.

I like to think most players dont feel the need to prop themselves up by displaying a + net DPS difference in vacuum calcs due to racial choice, heh. But I have already heard the chat banter in game of those who feel they need to. On the boards its one thing, but in game, people are usually alot cooler.

Absolutely, people are MUCH nicer to each other in game than we are here. but back on point, if your primary function is to deal damage, Horc FTW in every case. You don't need a degree in Open Office to see that.

[Yaga_Nub]

'cos they're ugly' is perfectly accceptable reasoning.

my WF barb is going to be TRed into a WF barb. i'm going to get this question a lot.

Hi Melicat!!!

[Gunga]

Sure, if we interpret success of a build in terms of DPS only, and min max for nothing but DPS.

What else is there, again?

hOrc may very well be the khopesh of 2010, where people are called noobs and accused of having fun at other peoples expense because they are another race.

Is there any better TWF weapon?

Its usually low level banter though. Most of these kids can be taken to school when it comes to actual play, and dropped off at the Discovery Zone afterwards previous to throwing up a channel LFM for somethign serious.

So it's the kids who say HORC is the obvious choice?

In a battle of well geared vets, the HORC is taking everyone else to school.

[Sweyn]

an out-dated Exploiter

Exploiters aren't outdated

But this is the BARBARIAN forum.

This is the Khyber forum

[grodon9999]

Exploiters aren't outdated

Quiet or they'll nerf us again!

This is the Khyber forum

Well, you are a bunch of savages, you can see how I was confused

[Chai]

What else is there, again?

Theres not being the same thing as everyone else when everyone else gets nerfed. Not only could hOrc be the khopesh of 2010, it could be the eSOS of 2011, heh.

I know you have said they will just TR to the new flavor of the moment. What you didnt say is they will do this after a good solid week of posting in a couple 100 + long page threads moaning about the nerfs. I need to get some more pitchforks in before the next riot. Those were the best sellers so far this year.

Is there any better TWF weapon?

Lets roll into some epic pirate zombies and we can discuss that afterward.

We could also discuss how heavy picks are the awesomesauce in epics.

So it's the kids who say HORC is the obvious choice?

Saying its the obvious choice and moaning about being poor DPS if you didnt make the obvious choice are two different things.

In a battle of well geared vets, the HORC is taking everyone else to school.

By a few damage per hit. Now calc out how much DPS they do in 60 seconds (harry battle) as horcs -vs- say....dwarves. Now calculate how many more swings each of the 8 dwarves would have to take -vs- the 8 hOrcs. Divide by swings per minute. You will then see how much hOrcs are "taking everyone else to school"

Many times I see these DPS discussions about one option completely owning another option, when in fact the impact of choosing another option isnt that high all other factors being equal. Hint: Its a few more swings each, and a few seconds.

I dont deny its the obvious choice, but the degree of improvement with all other factors being equal isnt as huge as many would think, as implied by comments like "taking everyone else to school" LOL.

If we were playing WOW or EQ, and there were raid encounters that lasted 20 minutes where you had to hack on the same mob the entire length of time, then yes I could see making a huge deal out of it. As it stands, this isnt the case.

[Gunga]

Theres not being the same thing as everyone else when everyone else gets nerfed. Not only could hOrc be the khopesh of 2010, it could be the eSOS of 2011, heh.

I know you have said they will just TR to the new flavor of the moment. What you didnt say is they will do this after a good solid week of posting in a couple 100 + long page threads moaning about the nerfs. I need to get some more pitchforks in before the next riot. Those were the best sellers so far this year.



Lets roll into some epic pirate zombies and we can discuss that afterward.

We could also discuss how heavy picks are the awesomesauce in epics.



Saying its the obvious choice and moaning about being poor DPS if you didnt make the obvious choice are two different things.



By a few damage per hit. Now calc out how much DPS they do in 60 seconds (harry battle) as horcs -vs- say....dwarves. Now calculate how many more swings each of the 8 dwarves would have to take -vs- the 8 hOrcs. Divide by swings per minute. You will then see how much hOrcs are "taking everyone else to school"

Many times I see these DPS discussions about one option completely owning another option, when in fact the impact of choosing another option isnt that high all other factors being equal. Hint: Its a few more swings each, and a few seconds.

I dont deny its the obvious choice, but the degree of improvement with all other factors being equal isnt as huge as many would think, as implied by comments like "taking everyone else to school" LOL.

If we were playing WOW or EQ, and there were raid encounters that lasted 20 minutes where you had to hack on the same mob the entire length of time, then yes I could see making a huge deal out of it. As it stands, this isnt the case.

I will summarize your lengthy response as, "HORCS are the best race for DPS."

And I will counter with, "Yes."