WANTED: Your opinions of what the role of a Cleric should be.

[whitehawk74]

Hiya there folks,
I have just rage quit. i am ashamed that i did it, but i really felt disrespected and that i was just there so others could have a good time.
I patched up the 2 mages and made sure they were covered at all times because of the Agro they cause, I dragged stones back to pillars while other members ran forward only to run back with a team of orcs chasing them.

While standing next to the pillar I was asked to heal up the barbarian, to which i replied no, because we are at a shine. He didnt want to use it because we had a cleric in the party. So after healing up the Rogue who had already used that shrine, i was now expected to use the rest of my SP's to heal up this barbarian... to be a team player and to keep the ball rolling I reluctantly did while my blood pressure went up.

I then heard a remark in voice saying "i've never had a cleric complain about healing before", so i replied in text, "Hey guess what?".. I waited a few seconds and then Quit.
Even though i am ashamed, I hope that the party learnt 2 things. Dont be disrespectful, and carry some healing pots.

Twice I have been told that it it my job as a Cleric to heal everyone, and to this i say "no it's not". I provide buffs and when we stop and regroup i will heal up who i can. I dont heal on the run because Cure Wound spells actually do have a restricted distance and also get blocked by walls and other things, and also, by the time a healing spell is cast a player has sometimes run outside the maximum distance of the healing spell. The Spell Points are used up either way.

I really feel that I am expected to be some walking healing potion that keeps everyone going with unlimited hit points, even when they rush in completely ignoring the rogue who is carefully searching for and disabling traps. And when this person who rushes through and gets toasted down to 1 HP I am supposed to help them?

As a cleric, I carry healing pots.. why? because they are so cheap. If you look on the Auction House you will see that Spellpoint Potions are not cheap at all. They go for some amazing prices.
This isnt Diablo, folks! Mana is expensive.

My level 7 cleric has full heavy armour +4 and a mace +3 for a reason: she fights, and she fights well.
I fight, I buff, I bless, I cast "Sound Burst" ALOT to stun large groups and I sacrifice my Turn Undeads (into DV's) so that the mages can keep on casting.

Now I know that the people who are active in the forums have a different mentality to the game than the people who dont care how the game works, so it is to you that i ask the following:

What is your opinion on the role of a Cleric?

[issiana]

What is your opinion on the role of a Cleric?

at low lvls its a bit harder to do, but basically my motto is this ...

"to zerg ahead whereever possible, to get as much aggro as possible and then nuke the lot with 1 maybe to spells instead of wasting hundreds of spell points healing ppl who have no clues."

low lvls it's probably easier to just solo stuff tbh. the general game plan for a cleric is melee from lvl 1-11 then use bladebarrier from that point on. there will always be some exceptions to that guide though.

the other side of the coin is tell the silly group members who only want a personnel healing potion on legs to go get a hierling while you go solo the quest.

Again however, certain quests will require certain sacrifices to this ideal. Isometimes as a cleric you will have to be the healbot in the back (aka raids) and thats part of the job description we take as a cleric. But healing moroons...nah. dont fall into the trap of wasting your resources on scrolls/wands/manapots if the rest of the group is doing nothing to look after themselves. you all live together with your resources or you die together - hopefully they learn the point about looking after oneself before they get to hgh lvls and get blacklisted.

[FluffyCalico]

1) Your role when soloing is whatever is fun for you
2) Your role in a party is to fill the roll that is most needed for you to fill for the party to be successful as most people have more fun in a successful party

This applies to pretty much all classes

[Orratti]

Going by you startup date and being low level I'd say this. Don't buff anyone but yourself, get a few healing wands and be stingy with them, be conservative with your offensive casting, melee if you can but pay no attention at all to your kill count. Use your spell points for healing in combination with your wands, you have to be able to fire them back to back. Watch the red bars. If you can't hit someone with a cure say so or if there is no time move to someone else. Practice soloing and when you get decent at it start your own groups taking 2 or 3 other people on a quest with you. Smaller groups are more careful.

Everything stated will completely change in a very few levels though. Then you will have to change the way you play again. You won't be using wands much anymore then you will need scrolls. People dying won't be as big of a deal because you can bring them back to life. You will be able to cast more spells. Buffing becomes more spell point conservative instead of draining.

If you are pugging a 1st time cleric you are going to get some bad experiences. Even experienced clerics have bad pugging experiences. Make some friends as quick as you can and try to play with them. If I were to give a cleric a role in a pug it would be group leader. It is far better for a cleric to tell a group what to do than a group to tell a cleric what to do.

After reading the link posted, yeah, that pretty much sums it up.

[corpman]

my healers usually keep the party healthy by killing everything i can before it can hurt them, that is not to say i dont heal but damage mitigation through early mob death is more efficient for me most times if i am pugging out a run. that said I SAY PLAY YOUR TOON HOWEVER YOU WANT , if others dont like it adjust who you group with accordingly,

[whitehawk74]

great replies.
thanks for the link to The Path to Enlightenment.
from now on i will be quoting 'My mana bar isn't your health bar." :P

id still like to hear from other players so keep your opinions coming

[Talltale-Storyteller]

I think this thread will be of great benefit to you, I know it was to me.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=202343

I am a ****, so I would have just left their soulstones in my pack, or just outside the range of reaching the shrine while I soloed the rest of the quest. I may even have talked smack while I did it... I dunno, I play alot of PD too so I have developed a low level of tolerance for stupid, since I don't have to deal with it as much.

I don't mind healing either - thats part of being a team player, but so is not running off and get toasted while wasting my SP.

[QuantumFX]

Let me second Talltale’s suggested reading. Cleric is a wonderfully, frustrating class to play and you can be actively hamstrung/unintentionally griefed by bad players in your group.

Now, to play devil’s advocate for a second. Using a rest shrine on a raged barbarian with low hit points can be a death sentence. Basically, the amount of hit points you lose from the bonus CON causes you to keel over before the hit points you get back from the shrine kicks in. They may have also been under the impression that you were going to use the shrine as well. (In which case, why not burn your mana to 0 as you will get a full blue bar back anyway.)

And whoever said “I’ve never had a cleric complain about healing before” is obviously new to DDO.

[phalaeo]

There is no concrete definition of a Cleric's role because a good Cleric is like a Pink Elephant....you know one when you see one.

[Varr]

And whoever said “I’ve never had a cleric complain about healing before” is obviously new to DDO.

This......anyone that has played DDO for more than a week has heard clerics complain about everything, including healing.

+1

[patang01]

My level 7 cleric has full heavy armour +4 and a mace +3 for a reason: she fights, and she fights well.
I fight, I buff, I bless, I cast "Sound Burst" ALOT to stun large groups and I sacrifice my Turn Undeads (into DV's) so that the mages can keep on casting.

I started out playing 'healer' (FvS). And here's my personal 2 cents.

I use scrolls and wands to back up wasting SP. I use SP to heal and buff but assume some form of self sufficiency. But it's about completion and the fact is that no matter how much mace you have and heavy Armor, it means nothing if you can't hit the needed AC for that level (you'll find that out after 10+) and you cannot out DPS a good fighter build.

I've run with battle clerics, some that absolutely knew how to mix being able to nuke and fight and heal. They too used a combination of scrolls, abilities (like healing Aura) and SP. They also knew that in some quests and raids their role is to heal, not fight.

Trust me in this - you would doom a group to fail in Amrath quests and higher end raids if you're philosophy is that people should pot heal themself because there come a time when the 20 or odd HP you get from cure serious pots is by far outstripped by the damage high end critters do.

Knowing your role is not just a healers perogative but everyones perogative. Fighters should be able to self heal, but not at one single point in this game will a battle cleric ever outdo a fully functional and well built skirmisher or fighter. Because in large their ability to DPS is dependent on their SP and when that's gone they're now a second rate fighter type.

I have no sympathy for fighters that don't know their limits and zerg ahead and dies, thinking clerics are their personal HP supplies. When I use my ranger I can self heal and when I use my fighter I use pots as much as possible. But there's no way you can self heal and be efficient killing large targets while clerics roams around using other abilities than keeping well build DPS machines alive. It's a push pull synergy where a group is most efficient if they also work together.

I've seen battle clerics blow through their SP like it's water and then be completely worthless because they don't know how to household and don't want to use any resources other than their SP and I've seen fighters thinking they're gods, die in traps and worse, against odds that they could tackle if they also had enough pots to self heal.

It takes all parties to be succesful and there's not one single moment in this game where one is king over the other. I personally don't care if a healer want to be battle cleric but there's a minimum expectancy that in the quests and raids that require efficient healing that they also know how to do it.

My Ranger and my half orc fighter will run circles around your DPS any time of the year, but they will be nothing in a pinch without your healing. One does not exclude the others or you would have all cleric shroud runs complete in 15 minutes or less all the time.

[PopeJual]

Trust me in this - you would doom a group to fail in Amrath quests and higher end raids if you're philosophy is that people should pot heal themself because there come a time when the 20 or odd HP you get from cure serious pots is by far outstripped by the damage high end critters do.

Even in Amrath, I expect people to be at least partially responsible for themselves. I pass resist energy to Fighters, Rogues, Monks, Barbarians and Bards. If you have a blue bar with 11 or more caster levels and you aren't a Bard, I'm going to expect you to take care of your own resists. (I believe in this on both my Arcane caster and my Divine caster, by the way.) No one should be chugging pots during a fight, but when you see the cleric's blue bar start to drop significantly, I'd hope that a Wizard, Sorcerer or someone with a Rogue splash would start helping out by tossing a couple of heals from scrolls in between fights.

Divine casters should heal. A Divine caster should not be the only person in the party who is responsible for the upkeep of every player's red bar.

I have no sympathy for fighters that don't know their limits and zerg ahead and dies, thinking clerics are their personal HP supplies. When I use my ranger I can self heal and when I use my fighter I use pots as much as possible. But there's no way you can self heal and be efficient killing large targets while clerics roams around using other abilities than keeping well build DPS machines alive. It's a push pull synergy where a group is most efficient if they also work together.

This. Divine casters (and Bards) should heal and non-divine's should put forth some effort into making sure that unnecessary damage doesn't result in an extra burden on the Divines.


Edit: In the immortal words of Ron White, "You can't heal stupid."

[jametex]

I have 2 rules on cleric Gertran

1: I can't heal stupid.
2: Yes I am a zerging cleric. If you wish to live come with me.

Clerics can be a lot of fun to play if you run with friends and guildys.

[Nospheratus]

To know how to properly play a cleric you need to play a melee.
To know how to properly play a melee, you need to play a cleric.

[Talltale-Storyteller]

Divine casters should heal. A Divine caster should not be the only person in the party who is responsible for the upkeep of every player's red bar.

This sums it up. I heal only the players who are playing responsibly. Rage quitting in the your situation was probably the rash thing to do, but you know more now than you did then, and I think if you read that whole thread that I linked you then probably you gained some valuable insight that will not only make you a better cleric, but also a better player.

Cheers.

[Nahual]

Although Im sure Gol's cleric will change everything in this game.

[Mr_Ed7]

Stand your ground next-time...make others storm out of rooms not yourself.

Tell the barb to use the shrine and then you will top him off.

[Impaqt]

Hiya there folks,
I have just rage quit. i am ashamed that i did it, but i really felt disrespected and that i was just there so others could have a good time.
I patched up the 2 mages and made sure they were covered at all times because of the Agro they cause, I dragged stones back to pillars while other members ran forward only to run back with a team of orcs chasing them.

While standing next to the pillar I was asked to heal up the barbarian, to which i replied no, because we are at a shine. He didnt want to use it because we had a cleric in the party. So after healing up the Rogue who had already used that shrine, i was now expected to use the rest of my SP's to heal up this barbarian... to be a team player and to keep the ball rolling I reluctantly did while my blood pressure went up.

I then heard a remark in voice saying "i've never had a cleric complain about healing before", so i replied in text, "Hey guess what?".. I waited a few seconds and then Quit.
Even though i am ashamed, I hope that the party learnt 2 things. Dont be disrespectful, and carry some healing pots.

Twice I have been told that it it my job as a Cleric to heal everyone, and to this i say "no it's not". I provide buffs and when we stop and regroup i will heal up who i can. I dont heal on the run because Cure Wound spells actually do have a restricted distance and also get blocked by walls and other things, and also, by the time a healing spell is cast a player has sometimes run outside the maximum distance of the healing spell. The Spell Points are used up either way.

I really feel that I am expected to be some walking healing potion that keeps everyone going with unlimited hit points, even when they rush in completely ignoring the rogue who is carefully searching for and disabling traps. And when this person who rushes through and gets toasted down to 1 HP I am supposed to help them?

As a cleric, I carry healing pots.. why? because they are so cheap. If you look on the Auction House you will see that Spellpoint Potions are not cheap at all. They go for some amazing prices.
This isnt Diablo, folks! Mana is expensive.

My level 7 cleric has full heavy armour +4 and a mace +3 for a reason: she fights, and she fights well.
I fight, I buff, I bless, I cast "Sound Burst" ALOT to stun large groups and I sacrifice my Turn Undeads (into DV's) so that the mages can keep on casting.

Now I know that the people who are active in the forums have a different mentality to the game than the people who dont care how the game works, so it is to you that i ask the following:

What is your opinion on the role of a Cleric?

Unless you left out a whole bunch of stuff.. You over reacted.

Healing pots may be "Cheap" but healing Wands and scrolls are even a better value.

As a cleric, I feel it is our job to support the group in any way we can. Sometimes thats melee. SOmetimes thats crowd control, sometimes its healing. More often than not, its a combination of all three.

A good cleric understands how to assess a situation and provide heals for those that are puling their weight and contributing to the success of the group. I will never chase people down to heal them, but if they come back to me, I'm more than happy to provide assistance.

Curious though... Why have you not taken the Radiant Servant PrE? that provides a wealth of healing benefits. No other way to cast a mass cure at that level.... without the cost of spellpoints even....

[PopeJual]

Cleric hirelings are just giant additions to my red bar and I do not count on them to contribute to anything other than my red bar.

I don't see why any real life person would want to just be a Cleric hireling.


As a Cleric or FvS, you should ABSOLUTELY throw cures/heals during combat because making melee types stop swinging to chug potions is horribly inefficient and just ends up with people taking more damage total because they're letting the enemies live longer when they are stopping to chug.


It is NOT your responsibility to keep their red bar filled at all times, however. Those other players have two options to assist you in keeping those red bars as high as possible for as long as possible.

1) Take less damage. Do this by preventing incoming damage with elemental resistances, Damage Reduction, AC and smart play in combat. Also do this by killing the enemy faster so that they enemy has less time to try to hurt you. My personal priority is to kill divine and arcane casters first, dogs/cats/things that trip second, melee third and archers last.

2) Drink some potions. Seriously, people, why would you expect a Cleric or FvS to spend their money on wands and scrolls to keep you standing when you aren't willing to spend any money on cure potions. Even if you just have a stack of Cure Moderate Wounds potions, you're at least making an effort to keep yourself topped off between fights and we really do appreciate that.


I bring two stacks of 100 Heal scrolls on every Epic run that I make on my healing/buffing/melee Favored Soul, but please understand that I do that as my choice. If someone demands that I start chugging mana potions because they are a giant heal sponge, then I'll be right with the OP in leaving the quest. I save my Mnemonic potions for raids where I need to rely on Mass Heal (and I haven't found a stack of Mass Heal scrolls yet...) and for when I screw up on my own (like forgetting to turn off Quicken while buffing). I'm more than willing to heal and I believe that the OP was more than willing to heal as well. We just don't like being the only people responsible for the entire party's red bars.

[WirelessJoe]

Was there another Cleric, FvS or even a Bard in the group? If not, then you were accepted into the group to heal.

If you're the only healing class in a group but you don't want to heal, say so before the quest so the group can decide beforehand if they want a healer or not, or so everyone can stock up on pots/scrolls/wands.

Nothing is worse than being mid-quest, everyone 1/4 health and the cleric announces, "I don't heal, I'm a battle cleric".

It's not quite as drastic a situation, but it would be like my being the only rogue in epic VON 5 or Tide Turns and announcing halfway through that I don't do traps, I'm a battle rogue. Chances are that I was brought into the group to take care of some traps, even though that's not necessarily my only role.