WANTED: Your opinions of what the role of a Cleric should be.

[Nahual]

Although Im sure Gol's cleric will change everything in this game.

[Mr_Ed7]

Stand your ground next-time...make others storm out of rooms not yourself.

Tell the barb to use the shrine and then you will top him off.

[clkpacker]

While standing next to the pillar I was asked to heal up the barbarian, to which i replied no, because we are at a shine. He didnt want to use it because we had a cleric in the party. So after healing up the Rogue who had already used that shrine, i was now expected to use the rest of my SP's to heal up this barbarian... to be a team player and to keep the ball rolling I reluctantly did while my blood pressure went up.

Had you already used the shrine? Were you saving it? Were you about to shrine?

The barbarian may have been raged and unable to drink pots to heal himself; if he was low on hitpoints and shrined while raged he would have been in danger of dying. He may have wanted to save the shrine because he still had rages and boosts left.

Even though i am ashamed, I hope that the party learnt 2 things. Dont be disrespectful, and carry some healing pots.

A raged barbarian cannot drink healing pots, even if they are carrying them. As well, high-hp melee outgrow cure pots very quickly. It is far more efficient for a cleric/FvS with some sort of amp to heal them then a pot.

I provide buffs and when we stop and regroup i will heal up who i can. I dont heal on the run because Cure Wound spells actually do have a restricted distance and also get blocked by walls and other things, and also, by the time a healing spell is cast a player has sometimes run outside the maximum distance of the healing spell. The Spell Points are used up either way.

I appreciate that you're trying not to waste mana, but you've got this backwards. Between fights, everyone ought to heal themselves up. During fights, the cleric should be watching bars and saving anyone who's in danger. A barbarian/fighter/monk/melee-what-have-you is doing a lot of damage each second, and you do not want him/her stepping back from the fight to drink pots. That extends the fight, meaning the party is taking more damage overall. If people are outside your range, tell them so. Ideally, the party should stay close-knit in most quests. If they are out of range and you toss a heal, bugger. You did your job and tried. It is their responsibility, not yours, to stay close enough to the healer if they expect healing.

I really feel that I am expected to be some walking healing potion that keeps everyone going with unlimited hit points, even when they rush in completely ignoring the rogue who is carefully searching for and disabling traps. And when this person who rushes through and gets toasted down to 1 HP I am supposed to help them?

No. Stupidity should never be healed up.

As a cleric, I carry healing pots.. why? because they are so cheap. If you look on the Auction House you will see that Spellpoint Potions are not cheap at all. They go for some amazing prices.
This isnt Diablo, folks! Mana is expensive.

This is very true, and at level 7 you should not be drinking mana pots. If your party expects you to, tell them to provide them for you.

[Yaga_Nub]

At end game your role, as a cleric, is to heal heal heal!!! Drop the occasional blade barrier if asked/needed, but generally its just heal.

As for the barb not wanting to shrine, the reason COULD be that he still had a few rages left and this was the only shrine in the instance so he wanted to save it do he could still rage through the rest of the quest. Just an idea.

If you dont like the idea of "heal heal heal" then either find a guild where you wont be asked to do so, always solo and avoid pugs.

Ummmm no. Do not listen to this person. In fact don't listen to most of the people that have responded. Cleric doesn't not equal healer. This isn't WoW. Play your toon the way you think will best help your party and give you the most fun. This is a game after all and fun should the of paramount importance.

[Niktoo]

Do not group with barbarians at level 7!!!

They are the absolute worst class to heal, it can kill your entire blue bar to heal them up. (at high levels, barbarians are great, because almost no one has ac, but at level 7 they are the only ones that take a ton of damage)

Since you are new, you won't have much plat, but pick up wands of cure serious wounds whenever you can in house J.

Once you get to level 11 it gets much easier

[Jonny_D]

As a new cleric to the game with minimal resources, you shouldnt be spending them on your party as they see fit. They cant see what you have in your inventory and ts none off their business. That being said it is a good habit to get into healing people as a cleric until you have earned the rep as a healer, since this will be your primary role at endgame. I dont heal ignorant people, I dont buff ignorant people.
One thing to consider, if a single player is being a drain on you you arent the only one who will notice in the party so dont sweat it. If the barb says they wont shrine, ask them why they might have a good reason and you will learn something new about the game if they do. Remember dont stress about our spell points as long as you personally arent wasting them. Timely sound bursts are the best from a cleric but one is sufficient per encounter. If you want to melee as a cleric the best advice is to practice it solo because people are gonna count on you for healing.
couple tips for new healers:

pick up wands of cure light and cure serious wounds for supplimental healing until you reach level 10 or you are making more plat from questing then you are using in resources.

If you use them up ask for people to help you with the cost, usually they will, especially if they have the TR wings on their name

And one thing to remember about Barbarians, they are like a married man with the flu (man flu) nothing is quite more whiny or dependant on someone else taking care of them.. get used to it is never gonna change

[justagame]

At end game your role, as a cleric, is to heal heal heal!!! Drop the occasional blade barrier if asked/needed, but generally its just heal.

As for the barb not wanting to shrine, the reason COULD be that he still had a few rages left and this was the only shrine in the instance so he wanted to save it do he could still rage through the rest of the quest. Just an idea.

If you dont like the idea of "heal heal heal" then either find a guild where you wont be asked to do so, always solo and avoid pugs.

Brilliant. Why don't you just petition turbine to change the name of the class to "hireling"?

[Impaqt]

Had you already used the shrine? Were you saving it? Were you about to shrine?

The barbarian may have been raged and unable to drink pots to heal himself; if he was low on hitpoints and shrined while raged he would have been in danger of dying. He may have wanted to save the shrine because he still had rages and boosts left.


A raged barbarian cannot drink healing pots, even if they are carrying them. As well, high-hp melee outgrow cure pots very quickly. It is far more efficient for a cleric/FvS with some sort of amp to heal them then a pot.

Barbarians can absolutely use cure pots when they are raged.

[justagame]

I don't know enough about the exact situation based on the OP, but a few things:

1a. If you hadn't shrined yet, it's considered standard behavior to blow your remaining mana on heals and/or buffs before shrining. So if you're not doing this, start, it's good practice and good groups will appreciate it.

1b. If you had already shrined, and the barb wasn't around to receive this because he was zerging, then came back and said "heal me" after you had shrined up, yeah, that's his problem. Same thing goes for guys that hop into quests at less than full health and demand heals. It's disrespectful of your mana bar.

2. On dropping group -- I view it as a last resort. But yeah, if a group is repeatedly treating you like a hireling and expecting you to foot the bill, dump 'em and find a better group. A cleric isn't any more obligated to stay with a bad group than anyone else. However, develop a quick trigger finger, especially with good groups running into bad luck, and word will get around.

3. Contribute to melee when you can, but not if it diverts your attention too much. I find it helps to master healing/buffing/casting FIRST. It's really easy to have your attention absorbed in melee, and not realize the guy standing next to you has only a sliver of health left. Clerics can melee, but need to have the right build, equipment, and ATTENTION SPAN. Oh, and a +3 mace is not considered "well-equipped for melee."

4. The reasons you see many cleric complaints are self-evident in this thread. Whether it's wow-based or otherwise, too many people think of clerics as healbots at best, party hirelings at worst. However, it's important to realize that not everyone thinks this way. Be sure to treat fellow players well until they act otherwise. I once asked a cleric for one single heal in a raid (and I was properly self-buffed and self-healing as much as my toon could), and was told off something fierce. That does not go over well. At some level, you need to earn the right to complain -- by developing into a good cleric (which means good healer, and good overall player), you will get a sense of when groups are being reasonable or not. But complaining, dropping group, etc. before you've figured this all out risks not only earning a bad rep, but also deprives you of that learning process.

JMHO

[Xaearth]

Do not group with barbarians at level 7!!!

They are the absolute worst class to heal, it can kill your entire blue bar to heal them up. (at high levels, barbarians are great, because almost no one has ac, but at level 7 they are the only ones that take a ton of damage)

Since you are new, you won't have much plat, but pick up wands of cure serious wounds whenever you can in house J.

Once you get to level 11 it gets much easier

Especially warforged barbarians. Heck, don't even try healing warforged, it's impossible!

/sarcasm

"If you don't want to heal a warforged barbarian, that's your choice.
Just don't expect me to use my stacks of repair potions to carry your sorry *** through the quest either."

Healing a bad anything else is worse than trying to heal a bad barbarian... The barbarian actually has the HP to stick around long enough to get healed in the first place.

[Llewndyn]

A cleric is there to "crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of de women"

In all seriousness the cleric who only heals is just as lame as the rogue who only does traps. If that's what people think a cleric is for they are VASTLY underestimating what a cleric is. In all honesty when I picture a cleric, "kind healer" doesn't even make it into the top 5 as far as distinguishable characteristics. Clerics are walking TANKS. They do not (usually) have the melee dps a good fighter or barb does, but they have high AC, should be blastin' awesome intimidation, and when they need to be able to heal the party. The 2 times I have started a quest line via PUG I have kicked healbots because that's a waste of a slot. The shroud runs I have made where the healers stand back and watch us beat portals and completely get away with it only points to the weakness of the leaders. I would rather kick them and fail with 10-11 guys fighting to the death than let them sit there and pike while everyone else earns them a chest...

I say this having played a few healers (shroud ready on my first FVS, wish me luck!), my first builds were boring, stupid and lame, and the reason why is I had no idea how to make a good cleric. I made them to HEAL, and not much else. Now I got a 22 str, ugly lookin' potion chuggin', halfling beatin' SOB and I'm lovin' every minute of it.

WHen I am expected to play a healbot I leave. every time. I don't eschew my other RL responsibilities to log in and babysit you. I log in to play, I log in to lead kill counts. I log in to get completions. I log in to pike when on guild runs. I am a cleric. (LOL I was picturing the wind blowing through my hair and inspirational music playing while I typed that, which is funny because I am bald)

[PopeJual]

Especially warforged barbarians. Heck, don't even try healing warforged, it's impossible!

/sarcasm

"If you don't want to heal a warforged barbarian, that's your choice.
Just don't expect me to use my stacks of repair potions to carry your sorry *** through the quest either."

Healing a bad anything else is worse than trying to heal a bad barbarian... The barbarian actually has the HP to stick around long enough to get healed in the first place.

I will freely acknowledge as the proud owner of three WF characters that WF are a big pain for a divine caster to heal. Especially at lower levels.

That said, every party member contributes to the success of the party as a whole and healing WF in a party is good practice for later quests when the healing is more challenging. As long as they aren't just a gigantic piking mana sponge, I do my best to keep them up (and I also try to help out with reconstructs, etc. if I'm on my Wizard).

As long as they are contributing, putting some effort into preventing damage and at least making some token gesture at healing themselves between fights, then they deserve our support.

If they don't contribute and don't put some effort into preventing damage and at least make some token gesture at healing themselves between fights, then letting them ride in your backpack is probably the best option (true for all classes, not just Barbarians).

[Krag]

Brilliant. Why don't you just petition turbine to change the name of the class to "hireling"?

Indeed. They should have changed the name a long time ago.
From my experience clerics are fun to play 1-19, but at cap their gamestyle changes to a serie of "heal", "heal", "heal".

[transtemporal]

This is probably going to come off sounding a lot harsher than I mean it to...

While standing next to the pillar I was asked to heal up the barbarian, to which i replied no, because we are at a shine. He didnt want to use it because we had a cleric in the party.

There are times when this is not an unreasonable request. Barbs have enough hps that healing yourself with cure serious pots can take minutes, during which time buffs are being wasted. Melee types are also reluctant to use shrines sometimes because they don't want to waste their existing buffs (and if I'm buffing, I appreciate that because I don't have to spend 150 sp buffing them every time).

Twice I have been told that it it my job as a Cleric to heal everyone, and to this i say "no it's not".

If you're a healing-specced cleric, thats exactly what you should be doing.

I provide buffs and when we stop and regroup i will heal up who i can. I dont heal on the run because Cure Wound spells actually do have a restricted distance and also get blocked by walls and other things, and also, by the time a healing spell is cast a player has sometimes run outside the maximum distance of the healing spell. The Spell Points are used up either way.

Actually, you should be doing the opposite. Healing during battles and letting the group top themselves off/standing in your aura during the run to the next fight. You'll need to learn how to heal on the run because some quests don't give you the luxury to stand still and take a break while you heal up the group.

My level 7 cleric has full heavy armour +4 and a mace +3 for a reason: she fights, and she fights well.

You're probably kidding yourself here. Unless, you're specifically built as a battlecleric, you do middling dps and your AC is ok, but nothing to write home about.

[transtemporal]

WHen I am expected to play a healbot I leave. every time. I don't eschew my other RL responsibilities to log in and babysit you. I log in to play, I log in to lead kill counts. I log in to get completions. I log in to pike when on guild runs. I am a cleric.

Prima donna at all?

[hityawithastick]

A cleric is a self-sufficient character capable of melee, damaging spells, and healing. Sometimes, when a cleric joins a group, they'll heal other people.

My main is a necro-spec Pale Master; my main alt, a warforged.
For me, a cleric in the group is there for emergencies--I can and do take care of myself. All my toons have strong Use Magic Device bonuses, so I can throw a little extra healing at party members. If either of my wizards runs out of sp, I become a support character--I whip blur, cure light wounds, stoneskin, and bear's con wands.

When I play my cleric, I toss a heal if I see someone, in combat, falling below 1/4 health. Often, though, instead of throwing fifty heals, it's more efficient to throw a single resist energy at them and try to keep their hit points about half.

Basically: The cleric's job is not to keep everyone alive. The cleric has the same job as every other party member--to make sure the quest gets finished. If you can do that more efficiently by not healing anyone, more power to you. If you think someone's dying will cause a party wipe, then heal them up. Use your head.

[SisAmethyst]

The barbarian may have been raged and unable to drink pots to heal himself; if he was low on hitpoints and shrined while raged he would have been in danger of dying. He may have wanted to save the shrine because he still had rages and boosts left.

A raged barbarian cannot drink healing pots, even if they are carrying them. As well, high-hp melee outgrow cure pots very quickly. It is far more efficient for a cleric/FvS with some sort of amp to heal them then a pot.

...hehe, don't bring up myths, some barbarians may use them next time as an excuse

Needless to say that not only barbarians outgrew cure pots, but as well that the price of healing scrolls may outgrew the platin of the cleric With update 8 I even can't buy the guild scrolls with my Haggle Bard as they are then bound to character. At level 7 you even not have a group Heal, well, you event don't have Heal at all but only that little bit of cure spells. On a first character neither ardor items nor at level 7 full enhancement lines, so your spells do nearly the same amount as a comparable pot.

So a healing pot cost what compared to a heal scroll, and the barbarian still insist that the cleric has to top him off between fights? At least drink 1 or 2 pots to show goodwill. I agree, not necessarily in the middle of the combat. But if I am on melee and notice that I take to much damage I should reconsider why. Haggle helm on instead Heavy Fortification? Maybe need to back off or check if maybe my barkskin was dispelled or my fire res pot ran out and chuck a pot. Well, but that is another story...

Apropos rage, if the cleric got the Madstone Rage he will chuck some pots to stay at life but unfortunately he won't be able to help someone else. Same goes if the Cleric is stunned or otherwise blocked. As a melee I should always have a Plan B in form of Pots.

Between fights, everyone ought to heal themselves up. During fights, the cleric should be watching bars and saving anyone who's in danger.

I guess that was what the OP bugged most, it was between the fight at a shrine. It didn't sounded to me as he not wanted to keep them up at combat.

And rage quitting? Nahh, then they only take a DDO store healing hireling. You still have a responsibility for the group. You need to be there to bring the soul stones to the shrine when all your mana and healing scrolls are gone. If they then ask you to drink a pot, ask them how often it already happened that a cleric throw their stone in the next lava pond

PS: Warforged may be more difficult to heal, but they have higher fortification and better resistance... just hope they took the healers friend enhancements!

[whitehawk74]

this has been a great read, and thank you all for your opinions.

i'm learning some new things here which is excellent because i love running my cleric - depending on the party of course. usually i am with my guild-mates who are experienced and self efficient, on that day though i was in a bad pug.

I understand now how i should be healing during battle instead of in-between fights and can see the reasoning behind it. As i am usually in the front line in melee, i have to break out of it to cast Cure Serious Wounds, and i am totally happy to do that if we have at least 2 others who are non-stop bashers chopping through a crowd.

I should have put in the original post that i had used that shrine already, we were on Ire Inlet (?) (you know the one, lots of shrines) and the barbarian hadn't yet used the shrine.
From what i can remember, there was the barbarian, a wizard, a rogue, an archer (**** useless one too, forever running backwards) and a monk who kept dying (stupid stupid solo hero), so that being the case i had little choice than to take up the role as a battle cleric.

If i see that a party has 2 or more dedicated melee fighters, i will assume the role as buff/healer/cc because i think it is the best way i can play at that time, and its more interesting to play.

[justagame]

Indeed. They should have changed the name a long time ago.
From my experience clerics are fun to play 1-19, but at cap their gamestyle changes to a serie of "heal", "heal", "heal".

That is only an indictment of the mind-numbing design of epics (which IMO need to be revisited), and not the final word on the proper role of clerics. Anyway, this definitely doesn't apply across the board to all other high level content. And for the overwhelming majority of the player base (including the example in the OP), epics aren't what they're spending most of their time in.

[TheBroken_JPK]

This game is not that complicated. If there is drama, either solo the quest on your own or bail. Not a big deal. While reputation certainly counts, it only counts if you care. Someone begging for heals, because they are too hard-headed to bring pots is not someone who counts. That person can be safely ignored.

Don't let the idiots ruin your fun. Don't be bullied by terrible players. This game is full of them, and avoiding them takes far more work than ignoring them.