Deathward + PM Shrouds fixed?

[shagath]

So as the topic states, can any of you confirm me if shrouds are fixed now to be immune for DW?

[Drfirewater79]

So as the topic states, can any of you confirm me if shrouds are fixed now to be immune for DW?

ah welcome to update 7? they made the "shrouds" or as everyone else calls them "FORMS" so that they remove deathward when you go into them.
I have yet to experience a case where i was being blocked from healing personally ... however i do believe they removed the ability to heal yourself with necrotic touch as i cannot seem to get it working even when i am soloing on my caster.

[vVAnjilaVv]

I simply run away from the party a distance as soon as I zone in....there are absolutely no buffs save maybe FoM that supercede me wasting 100 spell points to have to undo and go back into form.

You can always just wait to go into form after all the buffing has been done also. It's not fixed tho currently on live...there is a workaround, but it's extremely SP expensive.

[gigobyte]

(snip) however i do believe they removed the ability to heal yourself with necrotic touch as i cannot seem to get it working even when i am soloing on my caster.

U7 did in fact fix a bug with necro touch, the description states that players are immune to the effect.

[CaptGrim]

ah welcome to update 7? they made the "shrouds" or as everyone else calls them "FORMS" so that they remove deathward when you go into them.
I have yet to experience a case where i was being blocked from healing personally ... however i do believe they removed the ability to heal yourself with necrotic touch as i cannot seem to get it working even when i am soloing on my caster.

When you ENTER form it overwrites DW but when it is cast after you are undead it blocks all negitive healing. This is on live I have no clue if it is fixxed on lammy.

The bug really wouldn't bother me personnaly too much except it cost 100 mana to reenter form and be able to heal again. A fix would be welcome for that reason alone.

[Drfirewater79]

U7 did in fact fix a bug with necro touch, the description states that players are immune to the effect.

Sadly it removes all reason for being a pale master .. the only attraction was the ability to heal yourself and not be forced to be a warforged to do it. Harm scrolls cannot be purchased .. they have to be grinded out with collectables ...and the aura heals about as good as standing in an enemy firewall.

I personally have given up playing my caster only bringing him out for rare occasions because of that specific change ... only reason to play a caster these days is to exploit perching epics.

[Drfirewater79]

When you ENTER form it overwrites DW but when it is cast after you are undead it blocks all negitive healing. This is on live I have no clue if it is fixxed on lammy.

The bug really wouldn't bother me personnaly too much except it cost 100 mana to reenter form and be able to heal again. A fix would be welcome for that reason alone.

This is why you wait to go into form ... I learned my lesson ... i wait for all the buffs to be done ... drop haste and pop into form on the go ... most clerics only cast DW once a mission if ever and its at the beginning unless there is a boss that requires it and then its usually done at the shrine before the boss. while i agree 100 spell points is steap for a work around ... its better then only staying in form for 3 mins at a time isnt it?

[Whargoul]

This is why you wait to go into form ... I learned my lesson ... i wait for all the buffs to be done ... drop haste and pop into form on the go ... most clerics only cast DW once a mission if ever and its at the beginning unless there is a boss that requires it and then its usually done at the shrine before the boss. while i agree 100 spell points is steep for a work around ... its better then only staying in form for 3 mins at a time isnt it?

Agreed.

As a temporary/permanent fix, how would the Pale Master community feel about each shroud costing a permanent 50 spell points (similar to Archmage perks), but you can enter or swap forms at will?

Either way, I'd prefer they simply fix the death ward interaction.

[Trillea]

Agreed.

As a temporary/permanent fix, how would the Pale Master community feel about each shroud costing a permanent 50 spell points (similar to Archmage perks), but you can enter or swap forms at will?

Either way, I'd prefer they simply fix the death ward interaction.

I really like this idea. +1.

[Drfirewater79]

Agreed.

As a temporary/permanent fix, how would the Pale Master community feel about each shroud costing a permanent 50 spell points (similar to Archmage perks), but you can enter or swap forms at will?

Either way, I'd prefer they simply fix the death ward interaction.

i dont know if you are being sarcastic .. but i am totally down with that idea ... permanent spell point loss but free transfer in and out of form ... i like the sound of that.

[bradleyforrest]

Sadly it removes all reason for being a pale master .. the only attraction was the ability to heal yourself and not be forced to be a warforged to do it. Harm scrolls cannot be purchased .. they have to be grinded out with collectables ...and the aura heals about as good as standing in an enemy firewall.

I personally have given up playing my caster only bringing him out for rare occasions because of that specific change ... only reason to play a caster these days is to exploit perching epics.

You do know that there's a level 4 spell that's great for PM self healing, right? 2 of them, in fact. Death Aura and Negative Energy Burst. When I was specced as a PM, I was healing for about 150 with Neg Burst and critting for over 300 with it.

[Sirea]

Sadly it removes all reason for being a pale master .. the only attraction was the ability to heal yourself and not be forced to be a warforged to do it. Harm scrolls cannot be purchased .. they have to be grinded out with collectables ...and the aura heals about as good as standing in an enemy firewall.

I personally have given up playing my caster only bringing him out for rare occasions because of that specific change ... only reason to play a caster these days is to exploit perching epics.

Death Aura is more useful than you give it credit for. But PM isn't for everyone. /shrug

Please, if you NEED to perch to complete an epic, you're doing it wrong.

[Drfirewater79]

You do know that there's a level 4 spell that's great for PM self healing, right? 2 of them, in fact. Death Aura and Negative Energy Burst. When I was specced as a PM, I was healing for about 150 with Neg Burst and critting for over 300 with it.

my point ...

clerics/fvs - buy heal scrolls heal themselves and others with no spell point cost
warforged casters - buy reconstruct scrolls heal themselves and other warforged with no spell point cost

pale master version per update 7 - no scroll but hps cost to heal self no spell point cost
pale master latest edition - no scrolls ... and only heals are spell point cost

i smell unbalanced classes .. but my nose is more acute to finding advantages and disadvantages based on my playstyle i guess.

Originally Posted by Sirea
Death Aura is more useful than you give it credit for. But PM isn't for everyone. /shrug

The difference between it and scroll healing is massive ... it takes 3 ticks to get close to what i do on a heal scroll and on a class that is starved for hps you really cannot afford to wait that long for healing. Of course i am not min max on his and that is prolly an issue that makes all the difference ... arcane trickster build so my hps are just over 320.

When i need healing i need it fast .. sadly PM is still better then crapmage for the amount of spell point loss (something most wizards cannot afford) and feat cost ... and have no interest in my spells doing random stupid things so wild mage is worthless ...

Really Pale master is the only choice ... and its made being a wizard boreing .. hope the sorc pres are not as dumb.

[bradleyforrest]

Of course i am not min max on his and that is prolly an issue that makes all the difference ... arcane trickster build so my hps are just over 320.

Well, there's your problem. I had over 500hp on a Drow PM prior to respec. Now, that's with a shroud HP item, a medium guild HP augment, a +2 con shrine, and other buffs, but Lich form adds a lot to your total on its own.

[wiglin]

The forms are too expensive in my opinion. Before I tr'd and left the life of a pm these were my biggest complaints.

1) Green Aura Graphic: this has been talked about alot, but it needs to go away. I would prefer something simple like a green version of fireshield.

2) Green Aura Sounds: make it go off the when cast and no more

3) Deathward: there were many times when I would move and even say something, but the caster would move to where I was to cast mass deathward.

4) Form Cost: 100sp to do what warforged can pretty much do for free is pretty steep. A couple of options. A: no cost (this would be preferred, but for some would try to argue its OP) B: Lose 50 permanent sp to purchase the form (like archmage sla's) or C: cost 100HP's to enter form instead of SP)

5) AOE Healing: Burst in no way compares to reconstruct and is way to expensive since maximize and empowered will be on. Burst and Aura are aoe meaning, if I don't want aggro, but need to heal myself too bad if alot of mobs are around. I would give palemasters access to the harm spell via an enhancement line. 4AP to purchase the spell, and 35SP to use, not effected my maximize or empowered.

Now a couple of things I like about palemaster is the hp procs.

Mabar Robe
Bracers of Demon's Consort (no neg level in lich form I believe, could be wrong)
Lich Form
Con Opp
Torc

That is 5 different sources each having its own chance to proc temporay hp's, but again you are not going to rely on this when you are down to 50hp's.

[Myrddinman]

Agreed.

As a temporary/permanent fix, how would the Pale Master community feel about each shroud costing a permanent 50 spell points (similar to Archmage perks), but you can enter or swap forms at will?

Either way, I'd prefer they simply fix the death ward interaction.

Bingo!!!

I like this idea...+1 to you!

[hityawithastick]

What if Pale Master 1 added Inflict Light Wounds to our spells known, and Pale Master II gave us Harm?

[Trillea]

What if Pale Master 1 added Inflict Light Wounds to our spells known, and Pale Master II gave us Harm?

Harm and inflict spells have always been divine spells, I would prefer them to remain as such. But I would definitely support some kind of new negative-based arcane spells for PM self-healing.

[hityawithastick]

If I find that I've been accidentally deathward'd, I just drop form and stay way back from the action. But mostly I wait until after buffs to go into my forms.

I wish I could use chill touch on myself.

[hityawithastick]

Wow, that last part sounded wrong.