Stunning Blow/Fist and Improved Trip on a Monk Splash

[jsaving]

I'm about to start leveling a TWF paladin with a monk splash and am wondering a couple of things about SB/SF. Would either of these feats be worth taking? If yes, what type of stunning +10 weapon would I want to look for -- handwraps, warhammers, or something else? Would I use that type of weapon exclusively, or would it be better to switch back and forth between longswords and the stunning weapon whenever the timers for SB/SF expire?

If SB/SF don't make sense for this build, what about improved trip? I'd have to tweak my build a bit to have enough INT for the combat expertise prereq, and wouldn't get auto-crits, but could at least stick to longswords. Or is the benefit too low to justify these sacrifices?

Basically, I'm searching for a way to justify a strategy/tactics feat on this character, but am reluctantly concluding that I probably shouldn't go that route. Is there something I'm missing here?

[blitzschlag]

stunning fist will be a bad choice if your only splashing monk as the dc is 10 + half monklevels + wis modifier + stunning dc weapon/enhancement. so few monklevels = bad dc.

stunning blow is a good choice for every char that sports a sustainable high str.

[Sorben_Dwarf]

In the same vein, would it be worthwhile to take stunning blow with a 30 str? DC 10 + 10 str bonus + 10 stunning hammer = 30 DC. With rage and titan's gloves, it gets up to a 35 DC. Is there any more convenient way for a paladin to boost that DC to the high 30s?

[Kourier]

I'm sure you can get slightly higher than 30 strength, and it might not be for you but you could go DoS (CE is a pre-req for improved trip, which has a higher DC anyway) which gives you +4 strength in stance. You might consider just going with improved trip, because 14+10 (vertigo)+10 is 34 reflex already, not including titans or rage.

[BlackSteel]

on a pally, u're just not going to get a great dc w/o some heavy investment. and by heavy I mean being a funny multiclass, or having multiple PL's in addition to the feat investment.

[Sorben_Dwarf]

In your opinions then, is it better to spend the feat elsewhere (on another toughness or extend) and just rely on the 3% chance (off the stunning weapon) if you want to stun something? I suppose there are racial DC APs for some races, but I don't think the APs are really available for it.

And, aye, 30 str is what I have now. But....hmm, add a +6 str skills shroud item (do they work on SB? I think they should), a DC AP (one, for economy), finish out my end game str gear (+3) for 33 str, and it gets better.

Dc 10 + 12 str + 10 item + 1 AP + 6 shroud item +2 rage +3 titan's = 44. 41 most of the time.

Will that work on most things, especially in epics?

[Kourier]

Errr... Str skills != stunning blow. Also, the tactics enhancements are for fighters and dwarves only. Rage gives +1 to dcs (+2 to str).

Here's my breakdown... I would like a minimum of 35 for epics (more is much better).

16 str
5 level ups
1 enhancement (human)
2 tome
3 exceptional
6 item
2 rage
4 DoS stance (not available to KotC or HotD)
1 ship buff
-----
40 sustained strength

10 base
10 item
15 from strength
and whatever DC improvements you have kicking around. Consider using an improved roaring weapon (They reduce enemy saves by 2). A 41+ DC would be lovely, but not likely to happen on paladins.

[Sorben_Dwarf]

Errr... Str skills != stunning blow. Also, the tactics enhancements are for fighters and dwarves only. Rage gives +1 to dcs (+2 to str).

Do you mean that a Str skills item won't affect Stunning Blow? My Paladin is a Dwarf at the moment, so the Tactics enhancement is attainable.

[k1ngp1n]

Do you mean that a Str skills item won't affect Stunning Blow?

That is correct. STR Skills items only affects your skills list.

[Sorben_Dwarf]

That is correct. STR Skills items only affects your skills list.

Ahh well. Is it the same with a wisdom item for a monk's Stunning Fist then? Seems like it would be.

[Sirslapemsack]

fighter past lives raise your DCs.

Also halfelf with fighter del can raise your stunning blow and trip attempts through enhancement lines.