Thankyou for your KILLS!

[silvertrit]

Its mostly goes to the factor of how many times did you have to wait 10 mins for a Barbarain to join the group compared to lets say a healer?

[Cauthey]

Healers get the most undue credit than any other class.

To be fair, they also get the most undue blame. "We wouldn't have wiped if our healer didn't suck!!" Yeah...you wouldn't have wiped if you had stuck together and used a little more caution instead of zerging ahead.

[Scherwiz2]

The OP is absolutely right! I can not remember the last time I was thanked for topping the kill counts, disabling all the traps, not getting brutally murdered like the other DPS melees, or blowing through a stack of heal scrolls to keep the tank alive because the healers were not doing their job.

No, instead I am merely referred to with contempt as "the Rogue". >_>

Anyway, I will concede that there have been times (albeit few) where the melees have been thanked for doing good DPS. The most recurring situation is during the Shadowmaster fight in ToD. On a few occasions the kiter thanked the group for killing the boss quickly and, ergo, making their job easier. Of course, the kiter is almost always a Sorc or a Wiz, not a FvS or Cleric.

As for my own group etiquette, I make a point to thank players for buffs and will thank the group for the run after completion. If it happened to be a really good run then I will point it out and tell the other players to feel free to look me up if they want to run together again. Of course, the really good runs often occur because everyone (not just the healers) have a clue and actually play well. Thus, I rarely signal out a healer for doing a good job unless the tank is terrible and they are clearly struggling to keep them alive.

Then again... healers are typically the class you wait the longest for to join the group so giving them "tender-loving-care" and commenting on how lovely their armor looks is pretty much the social norm.

[yawumpus]

was picked up and dragged to victory by the barbarian (Merdic of Orien, who suffered noobs* with grace and patience). No class abilities could have saved this crew, but a clear understanding of the quest, and understanding of how and why we were wiping, and the willingness to say [and type for those foolish enough to play without sound and let us guess they were ignoring voice commands] over and over again until we got it right.

Healing poor gameplay takes patience and communication. No blue bar is big enough to heal the damage poor gameplay can do.


* I try to keep my gameplay up, but my bard was forced into pure healer duty by the party's poor agro management. I suspect that a good cleric could have done much better (found a way to keep using bard spells instead of all heals), but clerics aren't a class I play well yet.

[TitoJ]

Its mostly goes to the factor of how many times did you have to wait 10 mins for a Barbarain to join the group compared to lets say a healer?

I don't know, for most questing I just wait for some dps to join, then I type "in progress" in the lfm. Unless I am the dps, then I just go.

For anything else, haven't really run into that problem too much.

[nanobot1994]

The thing is, favoritism does happen, think about it from the clerics point of view, whether right or wrong, who do you heal first, the barb who hands thanks yous like candy or the one thats saying you fail, or is bragging about his ability to kill?

Im not saying this is right by any stretch, but this could be one reason it happens. I dont really have any personal experience of pugging a cleric, since mines been guild only so far (lv17), just because I dont feel like dealing with random melee in need of a baby sitter, Id rather jump in a guild run and have some drama-free fun...

Just my 2cents, not meant to flame anyone.

[TitoJ]

To be fair, they also get the most undue blame. "We wouldn't have wiped if our healer didn't suck!!" Yeah...you wouldn't have wiped if you had stuck together and used a little more caution instead of zerging ahead.

Heh, my self-made guild name for my barbarian is "Keep Up And We'll Be Together". I need to zerg it!

[Magnus_Arcanis]

Hmm. I was onboard for a little while until I realized something...

I figure that the vast majority of people who play a non-healer (bards might be an exception as they tend to not be a burden on a healer's spell point pool) character would struggle without that healer in the party constantly topping off hit point bars.

My theory is that the people thanking lower than highly above average healers for doing little things or even attempting to do little things is because they realized a long time ago that if it wasn't for the healer... they would have to struggle a great deal more than they would prefer. Thus come to appreciate anyone who is willing to help them.

So for me... I appreciate anyone willing to play the role of 'healer' as without them life for many a player would be just that much more difficult.

As for thanking someone who kills a lot. Ya no, any slack-jaw with a weapon can rack up a kill count. Heh, even that healer you were just thanking can kill things. But I appreciate (I don't even play healers) melee and caster types that are a not a burden to the party.

Now, of course, I'm NOT talking about how high a person's DPS is... I'm talking about the guy who has umd and helps heal themselves, others or even the healer. The guy who has a good enough armor class to not be a mana sponge. The intimi-turtle who reduces damage the party takes like a champ. The guy who knows the value of good and constant crowd control. Etc...

That and I'll thank anyone who buffs without a snide remark and does so without asking. Its rare these days to see that so I've come to appreicate it when it happens even though I generally play characters who are more than capable of bufffing themselves if necessary.

When it comes down to it. Other players don't HAVE to do anything, so even that attempt to do something positive should be appreciated.

[krud]

does somebody need a hug today?

[MeToo]

the majority of the time, when you have a decent party, you're free to do what you will as a cleric. Which puts the value of competent fighters and casters WAY up.

I agree. I don't put any given class on a "pedastal" either (except maybe a good bard). If we complete, regardless of how we got there, I usually say, "good job", "Nice run" or "thanks for the smooth run all" to the whole group rather than to an individual player. I often say, "nice trip" or "nice stuns" but I don't remember saying "nice heals" nor expect it from others.

My previous post was just trying to show from others' point of view why "healers" more often get singled out. It's easier to notice when they succeed/fail than an individual in a sea of melee.

My fighter is far more reliant on external healing than my cleric and favored soul are dependent on somebody else's DPS. Without using any resources, my level 20 cleric can solo Vale and Amrath quests (albeit slowly) and my level 15 favored soul solos Gianthold walkups and soloed The Reaver's Fate last night. How many raids can my pure fighter solo without burning resources? How often do you sit there with 11 people waiting for a generic melee vs some other specialized character to start a raid?

[TheDearLeader]

Thank you for the new breed of light Monks, utilizing multiple crowd-control methods on a melee toon. Thank you for tossing out Aligning the Heavens at the beginning of a quest, and Walk of the Sun when a rogue is disabling traps in Epic. Thank you to the Dark monk that uses their elemental curses to enhance damage in boss battles.

Thank you for the Rogue that actually *can* disable the traps in Epic. Thank you for managing a 52 Search & DD, even if mechanic is "not your style". Thank you for the rogue with decent Search & DD that joins my "Shadow Knight Farming" group.

Thank you to every Barbarian that managed to fit in Stunning Blow.

Thank you to every Kensai who bothered to take ranks in Inimidate, in case we needs a backup/Orthon tank. Special thank you for using your extra feats/AP to grab yourself Stunning Blow and Improved Trip.

Thank you to the Stalwart Defenders and Defenders of Siberys that makes up for hitting like a wet noodle by making himself a pair of Triple Earth GS Heavy Picks.

Thank you for the Ranger Arcane Archers for knowing when to put away the bow, thank you for the Tempests that know when to pull it out.

Thank you to the Sorcerer that grabs Heighten and Crowd Control spells, even though you're feat-and-spell starved. Thank you for carrying Reconstruct as a spell, and for not complaining when you're relegated to the same job as a healer and given no recognition. Thank you for spending countless hours soloing Eye of the Titan on Elite for an Eardweller, so that you may have the hottest of the hot and the coldest of the cold.

Thank you to the Archmage that manages a balancing act of DCs and damage with an AP-intensive class. Thank you for grinding, and for multiple TRs, and doing everything you can to have suitable Necro DCs for Vale, and suitable Enchantment DCs for Epic.

Thank you to the Pale Master that knows that *sometimes*, its okay to still be a fleshie and not undead like the rest of us.

Most of all, big ups to the Bard. Thank you for making EV6 as flawless as flawless as it is. Thank you for tossing the Heal/Reconstruct scrolls that no one ever seems to note *aren't* coming from the healer/arcane. Thank you for not complaining when some pug 30 AC Fighter asks you for "The AC Song" (Inspire Heroics, FYI). Thanks for Sustaining Song, Spellsong Vigor, and for understanding that Inspire Recklessness is a bad thing to sing to a party full of fleshes while wading through mobs in Sins of Attrition Elite. Big ups to a class that is often high demand (if only one spot per raid), that still manages to not get a lot of recognition.


In general:

Thank you to everyone that carries Guild Remove Curse pots.
Thank you to everyone that carries a "woo-woo" stick.
Thank you to those adult enough to admit when they are new to a quest or raid when the question is asked.
Thank you to those that ensure that they are flagged/off timer BEFORE hitting the LFM.
Thank you to all melee that carry at least Vorpals and DR Busters.
Thank you to all 12 party members who beat on Portals in Part 1 of the Shroud, regardless of class.

There's a lot to be thankful for.

[yawumpus]

that a well played cleric is the one who puts down the best blade barrier/command/cometfall etc, and that healing is pretty standard. A poor healer might be too late and/or triage badly in the face of long cooldowns (too often guilty, thus my fvs is the lowest of my alts), but most clerics can heal up the party. A good cleric heals less because the CC'ed mobs aren't hurting the party as often.

The flip side of "thanks for killing the mobs" is that melee will eventually kill those mobs (until they wipe). Take a low/mid level barbarian. All he really needs to worry about is rage and DR boost (well all mine do, and eventually I don't expect to worry about rage running out. Also recent two handed fighting has nerfed movement a lot). He is going to get the kills, but timing the rage and DR boost means less damage, and saving the cleric's blue bar. High DPS directly means less party damage, but you still need to minimize damage to self. "Thanks for not needing so much healing" would sound trite, but is more truthful.

Sorry to hurt a good joke, but after all these posts it seemed a real issue.

[seobanio]

I have melees, arecanes, and healers. I think the main people who deserve more praise are not the melees or the healers but the arecanes. But thats another thread, so on to the actual topic:

With my specific healer in mind: people sometimes become overly-effusive with their praise. Its weird, and in many cases a very negative thing with new healers. All too often you see groups reinforcing over healing and other healer misdeeds with effusive praise. Sometimes the best playing style isn't the most popular one. (one example: giving the guy who wants to suck up all your mana a free backpack ride even though the group leader is his guildie.)

[Loromir]

The last part of my clerics bio goes something to the effect of "Don't thank me for my heals. When's the last time a pouty, demanding, POS cleric has thanked you for killing?"

Well built, well played melee and casters make healing 95% of DDO so easy, a caveman could do it. Healers get too much credit, not to say a great cleric shouldn't be able to heal through most pug adversities. (percentage based on figures issued from "Out of Your Ass" publications).

I'm just saying, I know there's clerics out there who do indeed say "thankyou for killing!", and well met my friends. But it's not considered the standard, like saying "thanks" for someone topping your hp off is.

I've been leveling a wizzie , and throughout all of GH, the times I've heard sub-par healers get thanked, is ridiculous. While I'm sitting there spamming PK, FOD, Holds, Ottos, and all the buffs I can muster, and I've yet to hear it, and the melee's cutting through mobs like butter haven't heard it either.

I'm not ASKING for it either. I'm actually just asking that congratulating everyone at quest completion, and saying thanks and good job to everyone become standard, and well enough gratitude for all. Not the majority going to one person due to the icon they possess on the party bar.

This thread is not designed to put down healers, or their role. I can appreciate any well played class whether I'm on my cleric, barb, wizzie, or bard. I'm not about to spam thanks to one class though, especially with no regard their playing ability.

Maybe you are not good enough to get a thank you...did you ever think of that? Just kidding...you make a good point. I get tons of thank you's when I'm on my Cleric, but never when I play another toon.

[Thanolis]

I recently did an elite run of Jungles of Khyber with a group of 9-11's that went very well. We had a balanced party and everyone worked together so well to the point the cleric with kept commenting that he was amazed how bored he was(in a joking way).It was his way of letting the rest of us know that as players we were making good choices and dealing with the mobs in the most effecient manner. I was on my melee at the time but typically play a caster and I rarely use to hear any thanks for buffs and playstyle until I started running epics and mass holding mobs. That is where arcane appreciation resides.

[TitoJ]

Maybe you are not good enough to get a thank you...did you ever think of that? Just kidding...you make a good point. I get tons of thank you's when I'm on my Cleric, but never when I play another toon.

Heh, I should look into that, you may have a point!

I don't really need the thanks, mainly I don't want to give thanks to someone every time they put a heal on me. Not that I'm not thankful, but now that I'm a father, I know the importance of withholding thanks until a job is completed, and well done...

Can you imagine if my 2 and 4 year olds both did their fair share of cleaning up so mommy doesn't have to at 10pm while I'm playing DDO...and I just doted on the one time after time, and gave little respects to the other? It'd be just asking for one of them to get a huge ego, and the other to need massive counseling.

[sephiroth1084]

I generally thank people for doing a good job in general, but especially for doing things that are likely not very fun, but benefit the whole group.

You'll get a "Good job," or "Thank you" from me for:

• Solving a puzzle (even a rather easy one).
• Healing (since I've tried it, and found it really boring)
• Buffing (since doing so necessarily detracts from your ability to do other, more fun things)
• Tanking (since it is often a thankless activity, and requires a lot of investment)
• CCing (since it made the quest easier and more fun for the rest of us)

[TitoJ]

I generally thank people for doing a good job in general, but especially for doing things that are likely not very fun, but benefit the whole group.

You'll get a "Good job," or "Thank you" from me for:

• Solving a puzzle (even a rather easy one).
• Healing (since I've tried it, and found it really boring)
• Buffing (since doing so necessarily detracts from your ability to do other, more fun things)
• Tanking (since it is often a thankless activity, and requires a lot of investment)
• CCing (since it made the quest easier and more fun for the rest of us)

Yeah, but you're also going to get the crowd like me whose tried dps, and found it very boring. That's why we're playing casters and healers. I mean some people have fun with auto attack...I personally didn't thouroughly enjoy it after playing WoW with the multitude of abilities that fighters and melee's have. I do play them, just not primarily.

So why shouldn't people like me be thankful for good dps? Which I am, but should I say it all quest long?

[sephiroth1084]

Yeah, but you're also going to get the crowd like me whose tried dps, and found it very boring. That's why we're playing casters and healers. I mean some people have fun with auto attack...I personally didn't thouroughly enjoy it after playing WoW with the multitude of abilities that fighters and melee's have. I do play them, just not primarily.

So why shouldn't people like me be thankful for good dps? Which I am, but should I say it all quest long?

I find that, generally, if you don't enjoy playing a DPS toon, you don't. It' snot like playing a cleric or favored soul, which can do a lot more than just healing, who resigns themselves to having to heal and occasionally having to do nothing but heal. If you dislike attacking, chances are you don't have a toon for which that is the primary/only thing it does.

You said you don't like auto-attack...do you have a high level barbarian, fighter, rogue or ranger?

Also, attacking, in many cases, requires essentially zero skill. Whereas the rest of the activities I mentioned require at least some.

[Daine]

I see it as the fault of the XP page, which only credits DPS'ers and Rogues: ie. Number of kills, Amount of traps disabled and secret doors found.

Now if we just had a page for:

Number of hit points healed (includes self-healing,potions, wands etc).
Number of creatures intimidated.
Number stunned/tripped etc.

...then we could really see how well the cleric was doing!


Then I could be in a party and see that I was mostly at full hits not just because of the Barb and the Sorc reducing everything to mush, but the bard that was healing and the tank that made sure I never got hit and the tricksy monk stunning everything in sight. In fact I could see when the Cleric really didnt do too much at all and certainly doesn't deserve individual thanks!

Alternatively when playing my alt Cleric I could look at the party stats at the end while people are thanking me for a good job and see that I was the only one pulling my weight and not continue on with that group when they ask if I want to do it again on elite!

Hmm, now that I think about though, it would probably just induce a new class of elitism with arbitrary minimum limits set to the numbers of times you use a skill if you want to get re-invited and not black banned. Probably is just better to thank the cleric and pretend his holiness is the only reason we survived!