The best all-around method of clonk melee damage

[Propane]

Hay peps -

I just whipped this together... without doing anything too far out...

Level 20 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
(2 Monk / 18 Cleric)
Hit Points: 342
Spell Points: 1091

BAB: 14/14/19/24
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 11
Will: 17
Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.2
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
(2 Monk / 18 Cleric)
Hit Points: 342
Spell Points: 1171

BAB: 14/14/19/24
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 11
Will: 17

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 14 14
Dexterity 15 15
Constitution 16 20
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 14 16
Charisma 8 10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 2 7
Bluff -1 0
Concentration 3 7
Diplomacy -1 0
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -1 0
Heal 2 5
Hide 2 2
Intimidate -1 1
Jump 2 2
Listen 2 3
Move Silently 2 2
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 -1
Search -1 1
Spot 2 3
Swim 2 2
Tumble n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Level 2 (Cleric)

Level 3 (Cleric)

Level 4 (Monk)

Level 5 (Cleric)

Level 6 (Cleric)

Level 7 (Cleric)

Level 8 (Cleric)

Level 9 (Cleric)

Level 10 (Cleric)

Level 11 (Cleric)

Level 12 (Cleric)

Level 13 (Cleric)

Level 14 (Cleric)

Level 15 (Cleric)

Level 16 (Cleric)

Level 17 (Cleric)

Level 18 (Cleric)

Level 19 (Cleric)

Level 20 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Dwarven Faith I
Enhancement: Dwarven Faith II
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense I
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense II
Enhancement: Way of the Tenacious Badger I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness IV
Enhancement: Improved Balance I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration II
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life III
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma I
Enhancement: Cleric Charisma II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality II
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality III
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Extra Turning II
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery II

HP
342 Base
60 CON +6
30 Greater False Life
10 GH Favor
45 Shroud HP Item
487 – Standing HP

[CrankVulcan]

HP
342 Base
60 CON +6
30 Greater False Life
10 GH Favor
45 Shroud HP Item
487 – Standing HP

????
How are your base HP 342? lol isn't that impossible with a 20 con?

[ConnorMacLoad]

????
How are your base HP 342? lol isn't that impossible with a 20 con?

are you leveling us?

[Propane]

This is for a lv 20 (18/2) at lv 20 - sorry for the confusion...

A cut and past out of Ron's Planner (very kewl - if you haven't used it you need to try it!)
I didn't take the time to do the entire build - just enought to get to HP at lv 20.
I didn't assign any level up points - STR, WIS, CON all could be increased...

HP
342 Base LV20 (with stats shown and 1 toughness feat)
60 CON +6
30 Greater False Life
10 GH Favor
45 Shroud HP Item

487 – Standing HP

EDIT - forgot toughness item for another 20

507 - Standing HP

[Arlathen]

I'll throw my Hat into the discussion and say my Vote currently goes to Quarterstaffs.

Charisma is an important attribute on a Radiant Servant Clonk: With Radiant Aura, Radiant Energy Burst and Divine Might all using from the Turn Pool, more turns equals more usability.

In addition, decent base Charisma is required for decent Divine Might. Even with depending on a +3 Tome, you need base 15 for Divine Might 3.

And to add to all this, one important consideration is that my current build in progress uses Half-Elf, for the Dilletante: Paladin feat. This will give a critical +5 to all saves with the advent of Update 8 enhancements to the Dilletante feat. Evasion is great, and a very useful feature on 'Clonks', but with a low/poor Reflex save its next to worthless. Dilletante Paladin makes a significant difference.

My reasons are:
No To Hit Penalty - the only minus here is Power attack, but with combat buffs you'll never worry about being able to hit mobs, even in Epic and with Power Attack mode.

1.5x Strength Bonus - Is the equivalent of weaponed-TWF

1.5x Divine Might Bonus - As DM adds to base damage, it improves Glancing blow damage as well at the same rate if you have Greater Two Handed Fighting

With no Dex attribute to worry about, the additional build attribute points can be used on Charisma for additiona turns, higher rank of Divine Might attainability and crucially with Update8 be able to achieve +5 all saves through

Good quality named Staffs - Rahl's Might / Dreamspitter are excellant staffs to use for Strength based quarterstaff fighting - Rahls Might in preference to pretty much everything, except for Devil/Daemon fighting where the Dreamspitter is better. Rahls Might also has a longer 'reach' than other two handed weapons, and inflict Glancing Blows in a larger area I've noticed.

Indeed in Epic, Rahls Might with its x3 Critical multiplier wil lallow you to add a major significant amount of damaged to held/stunned mobs.

Glancing Blows add considerably to the damage output: with the three feats, 50% of you main attack damage is applied as a glancing blow attack. Even against a single target, its like having Double Strike on every attack except at 50% damage!

Glancing Blow fighting does take some practice to get right though. There is a definite 'zone' to where you inflict Glancing Blows and where you don't. That said, when your fighting in a pack Glancing blows allow you to deal an excellent amount of damage in a short space of time.

One area I can't comment on is 'Fighting while Raid Healing': my previous incarnation of the 'Clonk' was using a Drow due to attribute reasons. I couldn't get the evasion saves or the HP high enough to really mix it up while healing, so was forced to the regular back rank healing role. With the Half-Elf version, I think I will be able to change this with a boost to both reflex saves and total HP possible.

My Expected HP total is:

Base: +20
Cleric 17: +136
Monk 3: +24
Constitution: 14 Base +2 tome +6 Item = 22 = +120HP at lvl 20
Toughness Feat: +22
Racial Toughness 3: +30
Monk Way of the Tortoise: +5
Argonessen Favor: +10
Toughness Item: +20
Greensteel HP Item: +45
Greater False Life: +30
= 462HP

Which puts my Half-Elf version around 60-70HP better off than my Drow version.

[Propane]

From above-

Charisma is an important attribute on a Radiant Servant Clonk: With Radiant Aura, Radiant Energy Burst and Divine Might all using from the Turn Pool, more turns equals more usability.

Evasion is great, and a very useful feature on 'Clonks', but with a low/poor Reflex save its next to worthless.

Good points Arlathen


I have been toying with the idea of taking the extra turns feat for a few more burst... I will have see how will work in with all the other feats...

I have also been considering hafling... you can get a bonus to reflex saves with some action point spend, hero's companion does look interesting as well... for you summons, charmed dogs, etc....

You will want some dex to have a good reflex save.. starting with a 15 dex (and pluse 2 tome) gets you enought for all the two-weapon fighting feats...
Eitherway - if you want to buff and heal - STR based (level ups) is starting to look like they way to go for me..

[Arlathen]

Good points Arlathen - TY!


I have been toying with the idea of taking the extra turns feat for a few more burst... I will have see how will work in with all the other feats...

I have also been considering hafling... you can get a bonus to reflex saves with some action point spend, hero's companion does look interesting as well... for you summons, charmed dogs, etc....

You will want some dex to have a good reflex save.. starting with a 15 dex (and pluse 2 tome) gets you enought for all the two-weapon fighting feats...
Eitherway - if you want to buff and heal - STR based (level ups) is starting to look like they way to go for me..

thanks!

Firstly, Extra Turning unfortunately is in my opinion a bad feat choice. Despite the two feat bonus from Monk levels, fitting in all the caster and melée related feats you want is next to impossible. Most builds are forced into dropping improved Critical, or OTWF or Heighten for Offensive casting. My own current planned feat list is:

THF
ITHF
GTHF
Power Attack
Toughness
Extend
Empower Heal
Maximise
Quicken

So I believe it's too tight a fit for Extra Turning as a feat.you may be able to squeeze some AP for th Extra Turning enhancement, particularly on a Drow variant.

As to race choice, it's to flavour really but I think Half Elf really offers something more for a Clonk build. Halfling works just as well.

Another point that I've made integral to my build (not relevant to thread but enforces my choice relating to my earlier points) is the use of Healing Amplification.

Healing Amplification significantly adds to the personal value of the Monk Healing Attacks and to th value of the Radiant Servant abilities - I can currently have my Radiant Aura tick for 32HP every two seconds - my Radiant aura bursts hit me personally for around 200HP, even my Healing Ki finisher tops me off after a really nasty, heavy fight by 70-100HP...

And the best thing is it's all SP free!

It's fantastic fun fighting and auto-self-healing through Enter The Kobold for instance.

Quicken + Healing Amp = The New AC

Just something else for you to consider

[CrankVulcan]

Quicken + Healing Amp = The New AC

Just something else for you to consider

Cool stuff...

Does quicken effect radiant servant burst/aura?
How about the other metamagic feats?

[Propane]

I have been eyeing up the Stone Skin guard... if you have "enough" healing amp - I am thinking you could be "wasting" some incoming healing... the guard will add defence above your max HP...

I need to get one first to try... might be a while...

[phalaeo]

13 base CON, only short term buffs are Rage and Madstone. Is it my daily HP? Nope, but it is relatively sustainable.
EDIT: I'm not sayin', but I'm just sayin'.....

[CrankVulcan]

13 base CON, only short term buffs are Rage and Madstone. Is it my daily HP? Nope, but it is relatively sustainable.
EDIT: I'm not sayin', but I'm just sayin'.....

Wow, way to go dude o.0

Can you give me a stat breakdown please? XD

>3 million xp means a 34 point build I'm guessing..but still thats a hefty stat spread...

[CrankVulcan]

13 base CON, only short term buffs are Rage and Madstone. Is it my daily HP? Nope, but it is relatively sustainable.
EDIT: I'm not sayin', but I'm just sayin'.....

I have a random question about clonk survivability...Is your 47 AC helpful at all at lvl 20? I have no idea what the breaking point is when it comes to ac. I can see my build hitting an acceptable ac if I geared for it. Not sure if it's worth it tho. any comments?

[Propane]

13 base CON, only short term buffs are Rage and Madstone. Is it my daily HP? Nope, but it is relatively sustainable.
EDIT: I'm not sayin', but I'm just sayin'.....

Can you show your standing / unbuffed HP? That would make a better base line for people...

[Propane]

I have always thought 45 by GH, 55 by Vale, and 65 for Devil Battle Field. Less than that can help some, but you hit those and you will notice a lot less incoming dmg...

[CrankVulcan]

I have always thought 45 by GH, 55 by Vale, and 65 for Devil Battle Field. Less than that can help some, but you hit those and you will notice a lot less incoming dmg...

Yeah I want to get hit less but I do actually want to take some hits. Whats the point of a torc and a conc ops item if you never get hit.

Right now my final breakdown on ac for my build looks like this:

10 base
9 wisdom(10 in ocean stance)
5 dex
5 protection
8 armor
5 Icy w/alchemical dodge
4 holy aura
2 luck
-48- reasonably easy to get
3 bark
1 haste
4 shield
3 chattering ring
-59-self buffed with good gear

Not sure if this kind of ac is even worth having. Luckily, my build is not built around ac so dropping it to do more dps or cast better is only a item swap away.

[Steveohio]

i also have a question.
Why in gods name would you use or count madstone on a cleric build?

It just strikes me odd, that completely eliminating the best thing you can do for a few more hp seems sorta... uh i dunno ********?

Do healing bursts work while raged and or madstoned?

[Arlathen]

Cool stuff...

Does quicken effect radiant servant burst/aura?
How about the other metamagic feats?

All metamagics work on the Radiant Bursts, including Quicken to speed up casting. Radiant Burst works just like a mass-cure centered on yourself, really.

The only meta-magic that works on Radiant Aura is Empower Heal, and then it only works at 50%, not 75% as you would expect. I wrote a thread about my testing of Radiant Aura in the Cleric Sub-Forum.

[CrankVulcan]

All metamagics work on the Radiant Bursts, including Quicken to speed up casting. Radiant Burst works just like a mass-cure centered on yourself, really.

The only meta-magic that works on Radiant Aura is Empower Heal, and then it only works at 50%, not 75% as you would expect. I wrote a thread about my testing of Radiant Aura in the Cleric Sub-Forum.

Great info. Thanks

[DrNuegebauer]

Just to answer the original question:

the staff is pretty well garbage compared to the fists. You just get so much more damage out of the wraps!

Feat investment is a small problem - but not massive:

TWF, ITWF, GTWF, PAttack, Toughness, Quicken, Extend, Empower Heal, Maximise

You can fit in Empower with a human (makes for nice BBs).

Spell Pen will be down slightly - but that's not insurmountable.

[sigtrent]

I think there are two kinds of Clonks

1. Those that want to beat up monsters
2. Those that want evasion on their healer (but may fight at times for fun)

If you are going for #1 then DPS is pretty important and handwraps offers the best damage potential of the options. This is especially true if you are going to run Tower of Despair since you can get pretty easily make a holy burst ring and use mettaline hand-wraps for boss beating. The attack rate will trump the extra damage on the quarterstaff quite easily if you have only two of the TWF feats.

If #2 is your aim its a bit more of a toss up. I'm not buying the "lets you have less dex" argument much as your reflex save is important on Clonk and your AC is probably important to you and both are dex driven. IF you aren't taking advantage of that stuff and you aren't interested in DPS, why take the monk levels at all? I think the better argument for quarterstaff is you want to use all your feats for casting and the monk bonus feats for toughness. Quarterstaff is your best option if you want to not invest feats. If you are investing feats, go with TWF feats and use fists for damage, kamas for vorpal.

I think it may be possible to do a half orc clonk where staff makes more sense but I suspect in utility and DPS it won't match TWF styles at higher levels. At lower levels, the staff likely wins.