New spell crit system affects non-persistent spells?

[zealous]

And yet again ure displacing it to how it is this or that, im very familliar with your ideology

Oh the horror, the indoctrination of a formal education!

That doesnt mean however they dont suck and yes optimizing the game is far more important than releasing it, else ull end up with

Another bunch of things taken out of thin air, you haven't shown that lack of optimization is the problem with those games.


I have a problem with this bunch of games where the developers stupidly spent time on optimizing rngs and thus failed to produce complete games.

Granturismo 5 with over 700 cars beying ported from gt4, still a great game but really disapointing in car content
nfs shift chucking on your cpu because its using poorply tweaked nvidia physx,
GTA 4 horrible performance, horrible graphics, limited ammount of content,
Unreal Tournament 3, very limited in content with acceptable graphics and nothing else good about it,
Pro Evolution Soccer Online play,
Fifa ports to pc beying a total trash...

I mean, the fact that my buddy has no performance issue doesn't have anything to do with him having a better computer. The devs should really have put more time in to enable me to run it on my archaic computer.

And so on.

So when youre telling me they have to keep up with deadlines and **** like that im sorry to tell u but, only newbs work on that ideology.

People with jobs tend to work on the ideology "Keep deadline, keep job. Don't keep deadline, risk job". Not only applicable for programmers to boot!

A proper game doesnt sacrifice the quality of it because it takes to much time or its just to complex... again thats just amateurs at programming talking.

Quite the opposite. A amateur would generally be more keen on his love child being perfect and thus spend time on minute details, potentially getting bored in the process and never finishing it.

A professional will on the other hand do what he's paid to do. If he's really good or really bad he might even be satisfied with the work he's done.

I code C, C++, VB, SQL, PHP < = this 1 just started learning) and a custom language for my 2D games as VB is kinda **** for that.

Well since you're not coding directly in machine code you've kinda lost the argument. Or are all optimizations equal but some optimizations more equal?

As for the games ive listed, only GT5 was good enough for sale, GTA4 was more downloaded than actually bought, as for the rest of the games including all EA ports the only ones that survived a bit were the NFS series at 20 bucks after a month of release.

Based on sales/profit numbers or your sagacious wisdom?

When u can optimize the game without compromizing its quality, u either do it or else ur sanity is going to be questioned, at least by serious programmers.

It's never that simple though.

A friend of mine used to think like u untill he was about to be fired.

And a friend of mine used to think like you until he was fired and couldn't get a new job due to bad references.

Also a game deadline is of a lesser importance, after all, all u have these days is games with unknown release dates or games that surpasses the deadline.

umm...the companies don't have internal deadlines oh noes...no checkpoints, no milestones etc. just release date.

And you also have a whole lot of games being released early. After all, gamers buy them anyway. In some cases you even have gamers playing those unoptimized early releases years later *cough* DDO *cough*.

Games like DiRT 2, Half life 2, Gran Turismo, Little Big Planet are the example of that, despite that they were not released before the deadline, they are ones of the most successfull games out there simply because theyve chosen quality instead of rushing and in the end it paid off alot.

So Deadline < Quality.

Pointless. Show that this was purely due to optimization and not in anyway related to design and you might have a point though...

And for the last time yes, having multiple objects calculation than just one is going to impact performance, be it a little or not is irrelevant since what matters most is to reduce the impact so you can fill that up with something more usefull like better graphics or more realistic collisions.

But how much it impacts performance is paramount. If you can reduce load by either a negligible amount or a notable amount with the same amount of effort it would be terrible stupid to call the amount of performance impact irrelevant.

DDO have compromised the performance with this update but they did it because they think they needed this gameplay change in the game, else they wouldnt do it at all.

Are you sure, have you done extensive testing of the algorithm?
If the increase decrease in performance is 0.00000001%, has it really compromised performance?

[zealous]

Studios shouldnt release a game which is poorly developed just because they are out of time, if u find the ports of these days from consoles to pc acceptable then thats ur thing, i however do not, most of them are just garbage.

They probably should. Tech gets dated fairly quickly, costs accumulate. They need to make profit. Many people buy the ports, developing from scratch would be costly.

This is what means to develop a game, polish it and only release it after reaching an acceptable level.

I guess you're a great fan of DNF?

[Legendary_Agent]

i believe you have no clue what ure talking about, ppl reading your posts might get that feeling aswell,
Also you state my points are invalid simply because i dont do ww2 outdated and obsolete coding? lol it means that i dont know what optimization means in games? especially when i develop their engines, graphics, physics and sounds?

Also no, nobody buys ports, they download them and if theyre worth it they keep it if not they just delete it as its not worth the HDD space.

Why do u think so many companies complained at ps3 users buying so many native games but almost no ports? And why do u think those games were sold by millions on xbox360? they were only 5€ difference.

In programming its very simple, do the job right or dont do it at all unless u want to show off your incompetence and fail to sell the game and get fired afterwards since the company did no profit with your amateur projects.

Real programmers know how to handle engines, they know how to handle deadlines and they know how to handle companies.

If the deadline is to short the programmers will simply point that out in the beginning and the company will understand they always did and always will.


And for your information DNF did not finish because their funds were canceled, please get your non unexisting points corrected by facts.


OH and dont talk about algorithms, algorithm is presented at 7th grade of school of how to use ur brain to code something.


And finally your talk about 0.000001% performane is actually multiplied by the number of enemies hit which before it was per player spell, now its per enemy hit and players use aoe spells for more than just 1 enemies therefor your 0.000001% performance can be multiplied by 5, 10 or even 20 monsters per each player, so yes it does impact performance, infact 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000001% also impacts performance becayse if u didnt know computers dont just magically calculate graphics, process sounds and textures and they say like "Oh thats easy to calculate so it wont affect me in anyway" computer performance is affected just by displaying 1 single object in the screen be it 2D or 3D, its a calculation, it will take time to process, it will jam other processes waiting for that specific easy to handle calculation, as a processor may process several tasks at the same time but never infinite tasks.

Your last point proven false.

Ive finished my projects on time, and ive always done that be it databases or games, oh and i dont remember 1 project where i was about to fail the deadline, so im gonna tell you this:

Im sorry f your programming is slow, im sorry if u cant handle quality & optimization in your scripts, thats not my fault, its yours.

U do it your way ill do it mine, ill always resort to int for searches and u can resort to varchar just because u cant handle to put few extra lines in your coding.

Cheers!

[PopeJual]

And for your information DNF did not finish because their funds were canceled, please get your non unexisting points corrected by facts.

Just wanted to respond to this one point in your bloviating, narcisistic post.

DFN had its funds pulled because they refused to finish the game. Instead, they continually tried to improve it instead of shipping it so that it would actually earn some revenue for it's backers.

Yes, you have to write good code in the time that you hve available.

No, you cannot afford to delay a game until it is "perfect".

[Legendary_Agent]

Just wanted to respond to this one point in your bloviating, narcisistic post.

DFN had its funds pulled because they refused to finish the game. Instead, they continually tried to improve it instead of shipping it so that it would actually earn some revenue for it's backers.

Yes, you have to write good code in the time that you hve available.

No, you cannot afford to delay a game until it is "perfect".

ive been updated with dnf as far as i could be, no the game was far from done and the funds were pulled out, they barelly did the modeling and in that very time they were out, they continuously tried to improve it at their homes by the dev team even after they were out of the business because they really liked the game.

Then theyve reached closed alpha status alone, without funds, they probably also didnt want for their game to be based on fast outdated engine but that has nothing to do with optimization, 12 years down the drain is not about optimization is about their unsatisfaction with the technology at that date so they kept trying to make a better and better engine, thats their mistake and it has nothing to do with optimization, after all half life 2 took 5 years to come to public and that game and counterstrike are one of the most popular games to date.
Also youre forgetting that the community of duke nukem also released several custom patches for the game with better graphics, sounds and so on, thats another reason why duke nukem forever struggled, they had to do something obviously alot better to compete with something that was free.

Example: Duke Nukem 3D


You can press the same button on duke nukem forever as many times as you want, youve shown me that theres 1 company who cant make up his mind about engines and ill just show dozens of other examples going down the drain with your "release as soon as u can ideology".

Ive also showed you ones of the most successfull games so far which took time to properly develop, optimize, polish and then release.

Im a bit perplexed why you still insist in me asking perfection when ive already explained u cant achieve perfection but u can achieve proper release in the previous reply. Thank you.

[zealous]

i believe you have no clue what ure talking about, ppl reading your posts might get that feeling aswell,
Also you state my points are invalid simply because i dont do ww2 outdated and obsolete coding? lol it means that i dont know what optimization means in games? especially when i develop their engines, graphics, physics and sounds?

So let me get this straight.

You see value in spending time on things that lead to improvements to performance, no matter how negligible, as long as it is in a high level language. Sacrificing time for performance should be done no matter the proportion.

At the same time, you should never look into the efficiency of libraries you are using, never consider the option to use more efficient languages for things having a potentially huge impact on performance. Sacrificing time for performance should never be done no matter the proportion.

That would be quite hypocritical indeed.

It would be akin to me claiming that bard is the most mana efficient healer in ddo.

Also no, nobody buys ports, they download them and if theyre worth it they keep it if not they just delete it as its not worth the HDD space.

Why do u think so many companies complained at ps3 users buying so many native games but almost no ports?

Do you have any facts supporting these wild claims?
Amusingly they also contradict each other.

And why do u think those games were sold by millions on xbox360? they were only 5€ difference.

Because some games are more fun with the more extended social possibilities of a console?

In programming its very simple, do the job right or dont do it at all unless u want to show off your incompetence and fail to sell the game and get fired afterwards since the company did no profit with your amateur projects.

Doing the job right is never that simple though. Also, you can have brilliant perfect code and it might not sell at all. Design and fancy things like that y knoes.

If the deadline is to short the programmers will simply point that out in the beginning and the company will understand they always did and always will.

If that was the case than there would be no bugs, ever. All games would be released flawless. That obviously isn't the case.

No, the reality of it is that there are such things as budgets and not being able to include all of the features that you would want.

And for your information DNF did not finish because their funds were canceled, please get your non unexisting points corrected by facts.

I guess you didn't click the link and read up on it?
The game is actually planned to release

The point was that if you don't get stuff out in time the tech will get outdated. You will then have to redo things causing additional cost and time. This can repeat itself in a vicious circle. Companies need to turn profit or they will go belly up.

OH and dont talk about algorithms, algorithm is presented at 7th grade of school of how to use ur brain to code something.

Ah, yes, the dangers of a formal education. Analysis of algorithms being unnecessary since you should optimize everything. Or wait, taking steps to ensure that libraries/language is efficient should be disregarded.
Only look at what's directly in front of you and not waste time thinking what lies in the future/beyond the horizon, check.

And finally your talk about 0.000001% performane is actually multiplied by the number of enemies hit which before it was per player spell

Since I was still talking about total performance it is not.

computer performance is affected just by displaying 1 single object in the screen be it 2D or 3D, its a calculation, it will take time to process, it will jam other processes waiting for that specific easy to handle calculation, as a processor may process several tasks at the same time but never infinite tasks.

I assure you, displaying 1 single object on the screen is handled by your computer, not the ddo servers.

Your last point proven false.

Ive finished my projects on time, and ive always done that be it databases or games, oh and i dont remember 1 project where i was about to fail the deadline, so

I have made no comments as to your ability to meet deadlines so I don't quite see the point.
Good for you?

im gonna tell you this:

Im sorry f your programming is slow, im sorry if u cant handle quality & optimization in your scripts, thats not my fault, its yours.

Is this a thinly veiled attempt at insulting me?
Trying to be funny?
Thanks for the amusement in any case =)

[Legendary_Agent]

So let me get this straight.

You see value in spending time on things that lead to improvements to performance, no matter how negligible, as long as it is in a high level language. Sacrificing time for performance should be done no matter the proportion.

At the same time, you should never look into the efficiency of libraries you are using, never consider the option to use more efficient languages for things having a potentially huge impact on performance. Sacrificing time for performance should never be done no matter the proportion.

That would be quite hypocritical indeed.

It would be akin to me claiming that bard is the most mana efficient healer in ddo.


Do you have any facts supporting these wild claims?
Amusingly they also contradict each other.


Because some games are more fun with the more extended social possibilities of a console?


Doing the job right is never that simple though. Also, you can have brilliant perfect code and it might not sell at all. Design and fancy things like that y knoes.


If that was the case than there would be no bugs, ever. All games would be released flawless. That obviously isn't the case.

No, the reality of it is that there are such things as budgets and not being able to include all of the features that you would want.



I guess you didn't click the link and read up on it?
The game is actually planned to release

The point was that if you don't get stuff out in time the tech will get outdated. You will then have to redo things causing additional cost and time. This can repeat itself in a vicious circle. Companies need to turn profit or they will go belly up.


Ah, yes, the dangers of a formal education. Analysis of algorithms being unnecessary since you should optimize everything. Or wait, taking steps to ensure that libraries/language is efficient should be disregarded.
Only look at what's directly in front of you and not waste time thinking what lies in the future/beyond the horizon, check.


Since I was still talking about total performance it is not.


I assure you, displaying 1 single object on the screen is handled by your computer, not the ddo servers.


I have made no comments as to your ability to meet deadlines so I don't quite see the point.
Good for you?


Is this a thinly veiled attempt at insulting me?
Trying to be funny?
Thanks for the amusement in any case =)

ill have to repeat myself, im very sorry if u dont know how to code properly, thats not my case and im happy youre also amused by that aswell (and no this wasnt an insult).

And since u dont even know (in at least a very vague idea) how were games developed on xbox360 and then ported on ps3 or at least the obvious results displayed on your screens which requires no education in programming or anything to do with informatics at all the conversation is pretty much done here, gave you all the chances i could for you to proove u knew something.
Byee.

[The_Mighty_Cube]

There have been too many personal attacks against each other to allow this thread to continue.