Appreciations welcome about this Dark monk build

[Feithlin]

Hi, monk experts
I'll soon unlock Champion and plan to create a monk (bought when it was on sale with 50% off), but I know nothing about them except what I have read in the forum or the wiki. I would like you to tell me if I made errors on this build or at least to confirm if he's fine. My doubts are mainly on attributes: should I drop wis and raise str? I wouldn't like to end up with too low DCs on my special attacks (especialy ToD).

This is a dark monk, based on fire and rock stances.

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Level 20 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
(20 Monk) 
Hit Points: 369
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 15
Will: 16

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             15                 20                   20
Dexterity            15                 17                   17
Constitution         17                 18                   20
Intelligence          8                  8                    8
Wisdom               15                 16                   18
Charisma              6                  6                    6

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               6                 13                   17
Bluff                -2                 -2                   -2
Concentration         7                 28                   41
Diplomacy            -2                 -2                   -2
Disable Device       n/a               n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -2                 -2                   -2
Heal                  2                  4                    4
Hide                  2                 13                   13
Intimidate           -2                 -2                   -2
Jump                  5                 10                   12
Listen                2                  4                    4
Move Silently         2                 13                   13
Open Lock             n/a               n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                 -1                   -1
Search               -1                 -1                    1
Spot                  2                 14                   14
Swim                  2                  5                    5
Tumble                3                  4                    6
Use Magic Device     n/a               n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Monk)


Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Fist


Level 7 (Monk)


Level 8 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Monk)


Level 11 (Monk)


Level 12 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Monk)


Level 14 (Monk)


Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Monk)


Level 18 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Monk)


Level 20 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Monk Serenity
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense I
Enhancement: Dwarven Tactics I
Enhancement: Dwarven Tactics II
Enhancement: Static Charge
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise II
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise III
Enhancement: Touch of Death
Enhancement: Fists of Iron
Enhancement: Porous Soul
Enhancement: All-Consuming Flame
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy II
Enhancement: Void Strike I
Enhancement: Winter's Touch
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Master of Thunder
Enhancement: Adept of Rock
Enhancement: Grandmaster of Mountains
Enhancement: Master of Stone
Enhancement: Adept of Flame
Enhancement: Grandmaster of the Sun
Enhancement: Master of Bonfires
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Improved Jump I
Enhancement: Improved Jump II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II

[Soleran]

Well the first thing to consider is what grandmaster stance are you going to focus on for dps? Generally that is either air stance or fire stance, while earth stance can be good (strikes) to help the other stances achieve dps by itself isn't a good choice.

You need either an 18 str or dex to achieve either fire (str) or wind (dex.) So you need to start at 16 and add a plus 2 tome later to achieve those results.

Grandmaster fire stance = 4 str, -2 wis, additional ki each strike
Grandmaster Wind stance = 4 dex, -2 con, 10% doublestrike and bonus is you always have haste in stance that doesn't stack with regular haste.

You took stunning blow however I believe it would be a stretch to achieve any sort or reasonable dc with this build, best to stick with stunning fist.

I know you asked for fire but I went ahead and broke down another option for you. So think about dropping con by 1 and adding it to str and if you have 2 plus 2 tomes for str and con you're set.

[jmonty]

it would work fine i think. more str would be nice but there are always tradeoffs. if anything i would drop con and put more into str but i am a fan of earth stance when leveling. the str points from leveling will give you enough for the fire IV stance.

personally i would stick with stunning blow and fist.

i'd probably get rid of ic:b for another toughness for smiters short swords are better anyways and anything critable will often be stunned.

[Four20]

Now you don't HAVE to get a +2 tome for the stats you need up to 18.

STR - Fire
CON - Mountain
DEX - Wind
WIS - Water


You can't get grand master stances until lvl 18 anyway, and by lvl 18 you've been given the chance to put 4-5 extra points into your build. You can use these extra 5 points to get those 1(or 2) stats up to 18.

That is of course if this will be a budget build. Now, while you don't have to do what he suggests, it really is the more viable option when playing a monk. Monks are very stat dependent(more so than other classes from what I hear), so the more +2, +3, and +4 tomes you get, the better. Which really lets you put those 5 extra build points that you get from lvling into a stat you really want(like wis, dex, con, or str)

I just wanted to point that out in case you already built your guy and was worried that you couldn't fix it.

[Soleran]

Now you don't HAVE to get a +2 tome for the stats you need up to 18.

STR - Fire
CON - Mountain
DEX - Wind
WIS - Water


You can't get grand master stances until lvl 18 anyway, and by lvl 18 you've been given the chance to put 4-5 extra points into your build. You can use these extra 5 points to get those 1(or 2) stats up to 18.

That is of course if this will be a budget build. Now, while you don't have to do what he suggests, it really is the more viable option when playing a monk. Monks are very stat dependent(more so than other classes from what I hear), so the more +2, +3, and +4 tomes you get, the better. Which really lets you put those 5 extra build points that you get from lvling into a stat you really want(like wis, dex, con, or str)

I just wanted to point that out in case you already built your guy and was worried that you couldn't fix it.

Lvl ups into a stat don't count twards being able to use grandmaster stances, you have to start at 18 or 16 with a plus 2 tome.

Something else to point out

Stunning fist dc is = 10 plus monk lvl plus wisdom modifier 6 second CD and something around 15-20 ki per strike.

Stunning Blow is = 10 base plus str bonus 15 second cd.

Even with weighted wraps plus 10 you aren't going to have a DC passed Vale worth even trying to use SB on, save the feat and pick up another toughness I suppose.

[jmonty]

Lvl ups into a stat don't count twards being able to use grandmaster stances, you have to start at 18 or 16 with a plus 2 tome.

i don't buy that.

Even with weighted wraps plus 10 you aren't going to have a DC passed Vale worth even trying to use SB on, save the feat and pick up another toughness I suppose.

i disagree. stunning blow is well worth it if you are going to level up str. but hey, i only have capped monk twice and ran one tr to 18 so far.

[Soleran]

i don't buy that.



i disagree. stunning blow is well worth it if you are going to level up str. but hey, i only have capped monk twice and ran one tr to 18 so far.

His stunning blow dc without running rages, yugo pots etc is going to be 35 (assuming GM fire which in his current build he can't achieve), I can tell you now that it is going to be near worthless, I can take my weighted wraps off and have a 30 SF dc and it lands maybe 20% of the time in Vale not even talking about IQ areas or amrath or epics.

You also don't recommend IC-B which is kind of crazy especially once you have both your ToD burst rings.

Feithlin those are just my recomendations based on my game play.

[Impaqt]

Lvl ups into a stat don't count twards being able to use grandmaster stances, you have to start at 18 or 16 with a plus 2 tome.

Absolutely FALSE. Level up stats absolutely count.

Thats not saying putting them anywhere but your primary stat is a good idea.

Something else to point out

Stunning fist dc is = 10 plus monk lvl plus wisdom modifier 6 second CD and something around 15-20 ki per strike.

Stunning Blow is = 10 base plus str bonus 15 second cd.

Even with weighted wraps plus 10 you aren't going to have a DC passed Vale worth even trying to use SB on, save the feat and pick up another toughness I suppose.

As the build stands, maybe not.. but..

16 Base
5 Level ups
6 Item
3 Tome
2 rage pot
1 Profane
3 Exceptional (Swap in TOD Ring when youneed the extra STR for Stuns)
4 Stance
---
40 STR
so thats a 35 DC without too much effort. (ok, ok.. 34.. LotD and _3 tomes are hard to get)

+3 Titans Grip(Hopefully Festivault cookies will remain the same this year)
+1 Airship +2 STR Buff
+1 Yugo STR Pot
---
39 DC

VERY Effective, Even in Epics.

Add +2 More with madstone Boots even.

[Soleran]

Absolutely FALSE. Level up stats absolutely count.

Yup I just went in and noticed that as well, my bad.

As the build stands, maybe not.. but..

16 Base
5 Level ups
6 Item
3 Tome
2 rage pot
1 Profane
3 Exceptional (Swap in TOD Ring when youneed the extra STR for Stuns)
4 Stance
---
40 STR
so thats a 35 DC without too much effort. (ok, ok.. 34.. LotD and _3 tomes are hard to get)

+3 Titans Grip(Hopefully Festivault cookies will remain the same this year)
+1 Airship +2 STR Buff
+1 Yugo STR Pot
---
39 DC

VERY Effective, Even in Epics.

Add +2 More with madstone Boots even.

I'm not even going to touch the rest of this since it requires so much time and luck to get some of those items its moot for discussion on a new monk player.

[Impaqt]

Yup I just went in and noticed that as well, my bad.




I'm not even going to touch the rest of this since it requires so much time and luck to get some of those items its moot for discussion on a new monk player.

16 Base No Luck Involved
5 Level ups No Luck Involved
6 Item No Luck Involved
3 Tome +2 is easy, I conceded the +3
2 rage pot No Luck Involved
1 Profane Required Grinding.. I conceded this as well
3 Exceptional (Swap in TOD Ring when youneed the extra STR for Stuns) Some luck involved, but there are several +1STR ToD Rings you can use[
4 Stance No Luck Involved
---
40 STR
so thats a 35 DC without too much effort. (ok, ok.. 34.. LotD and _3 tomes are hard to get)

+3 Titans Grip(Hopefully Festivault cookies will remain the same this year) No Luck Involved if you use cookies
+1 Airship +2 STR Buff No Luck Involved
+1 Yugo STR Pot No Luck Involved, just running a few Hard/Elite quests
---
39 DC

VERY Effective, Even in Epics.

Add +2 More with madstone Boots even.

[komeback]

Sb is a waste of a feat for monks unless you really have to have 2 stuns sf is way better and you can get the dc higher without gulping all that bs . Don't waste the feat IMO . With sf you really don't need Sb the cd is way to long and as stated on above post you have to rely on all kinds of buffs and consumables to get it to be a viable stun.

[Impaqt]

Sb is a waste of a feat for monks unless you really have to have 2 stuns sf is way better and you can get the dc higher without gulping all that bs . Don't waste the feat IMO . With sf you really don't need Sb the cd is way to long and as stated on above post you have to rely on all kinds of buffs and consumables to get it to be a viable stun.

Having a Stunning atack that costs no Ki to use is quite handy. Especially in Epics where the more mobs you can stun ,the easier the quest gets.

[Soleran]

Having a Stunning atack that costs no Ki to use is quite handy. Especially in Epics where the more mobs you can stun ,the easier the quest gets.

Without rehashing all those buffs you listed.

His saving grace is dwarven tactics 1 and 2.

But to seriously grind out a ToD ring as a new character to boost SB is silly if they don't already have 2 rings for bursting dps.

Plus 3 tome is rare.

Not everyone or group has plus 2 str airships

Hoping to get cookies so you can SB is just silly year round.

The only things relatively easy is the yugo and thats if they are comfortable doing amrath hards/elites whatever and spending 2500 plat a pop for 1 more dc for 15 minutes.

Thats ALOT of work for an ability that becomes somewhat useful at a 39 in epics, 39 is what a 50/50 chance in epics and then you have to buff forever and a day to get close to that.

Anyway for all that headache its easier to manage your SF, 6 second cd vs 15 seconds and all of 15 ki to use.

Have fun with the your first monk character

[Impaqt]

Without rehashing all those buffs you listed.

His saving grace is dwarven tactics 1 and 2.

But to seriously grind out a ToD ring as a new character to boost SB is silly if they don't already have 2 rings for bursting dps.

Plus 3 tome is rare.

Not everyone or group has plus 2 str airships

Hoping to get cookies so you can SB is just silly year round.

The only things relatively easy is the yugo and thats if they are comfortable doing amrath hards/elites whatever and spending 2500 plat a pop for 1 more dc for 15 minutes.

Thats ALOT of work for an ability that becomes somewhat useful at a 39 in epics, 39 is what a 50/50 chance in epics and then you have to buff forever and a day to get close to that.

Anyway for all that headache its easier to manage your SF, 6 second cd vs 15 seconds and all of 15 ki to use.

Have fun with the your first monk character

39's a lot better than 50/50 against epic minions.

not sure why SB is such a hardship on a monk.. I have both... and the Past life.... and still have everything else I need.

[Chubsta]

I have SB on my dex based monk and it works fairly well in Amrath...epics not so much, but worth having when it does work. Like Impaqt said earlier, it's a free stun.

[Soleran]

39's a lot better than 50/50 against epic minions.

not sure why SB is such a hardship on a monk.. I have both... and the Past life.... and still have everything else I need.

I respect that was just giving my view, you're a veteran player. This build is built on a purchased monk so probably not as experienced is why I was a little more critical with buffs.

At the end of the day remember this build isn't about you.

[komeback]

Alot of people bash it but when it come to epics monks suffer with to hit. I think weapons focus bludge is alot more useful in epics then Sb is . That 1 more to hit bonus prolly is a sf you missed. Or another toughness feat either way sb's cd and what it takes to make it work good aren't worth the feat for monks . Barbs and fighters he'll yeah.

[Impaqt]

I respect that was just giving my view, you're a veteran player. This build is built on a purchased monk so probably not as experienced is why I was a little more critical with buffs.

At the end of the day remember this build isn't about you.

At the end of the day, you get out of a build what you put into it. You cannot expect a toon to perform unless you put the effort into it. Thats something I've always taken for granted. I would never expect a build to perform on its own.

Alot of people bash it but when it come to epics monks suffer with to hit. I think weapons focus bludge is alot more useful in epics then Sb is . That 1 more to hit bonus prolly is a sf you missed. Or another toughness feat either way sb's cd and what it takes to make it work good aren't worth the feat for monks . Barbs and fighters he'll yeah.

See above. +1 to hit should NEVER be a ake or break for ANY build. theres always a way to get a little more str. Obtain another item, or put forth a little more effort to get the build to the point you are comfortable with it.

I would NEVER take a weapon focus feat on any build unless it was a prereq for something else I needed.

[Feithlin]

Thanks a lot for all the useful comments. I have not yet created the character so I can still do some adjustments.
I'll probably swap a Con point into Str. Getting +2 tome isn't that hard, because I already have caped characters (with which I unlocked Champion). When I first created the character, I was more tight on budget, which is why I opted for two +1 tomes in Str and Con.

About Stunning Blow, I think it's very useful to have one more opportunity to stun, even if I'm low on ki.
The Stun DC shouldn't be too bad with Dwarven Tactics II.
With 22 base Str (with +1 to starting Str and +2 tome), +6 item, +4 from stance, +2 from rage, +2 from ship buff, I should have 36 Str without effort, for a final DC of 10 + 13 (Str) + 2 (Tactics) + 10 (Stunning item) = 35. Lower than Stunning Fist (which should stand around 38-39 depending on the stance), but still usefull imo and it can still be easily increased when the character will obtain better equipment.

About Stances, I gave the final stances I will be based on. However, I plan to use Wind stance when leveling (up to level 16 or so, I'll see).

Thanks again for the contributions. I will start the character soon and will probably have more questions when I'll play him.