Am I squishy?

[GBantaR]

I'm leveling my first serious Barb, a HOrc who's now Level 14.

Lately I've been FEELING squishy. I seem to take massive amounts of damage. I specifically noticed this while running the new Lordsmarch quests tonight. I felt like the cleric was struggling to keep my hp up. He didn't complain, but....

I have 26 standing Con, 32 raged. With items, etc. I come to 356 hp standing, 398 raged. I have heavy fort and deathblock. Saves are Fort: 23, Reflex: 7 Will: 17 when raged (which is most of the time), 20/7/10 otherwise.

I started with 16 Con instead of 18 (which I now regret) but I'm wearing a +6 Con item, ate a +2 Con tome and have taken two levels of Barbarian Constitution.

In the level 14 range, is this squishy? Numbers-wise? Am I just an unwise player? Does it sound like I'm just putting myself in harm's way too much? I do like zerging but I think I know how to bite off as much as I can chew and no more.

I think it's one of two things:

I am missing a key element of my build and, once handled, I will become much less squishy
-OR-
My build should be fine and I need to refine my playstyle.

If anyone can tell which of these it is based on the data I've provided, I would be very grateful. If it's something else entirely (which I can't really imagine) please let me know. Since, like I said, this is my FIRST barb, I'm willing to change either my build or my playstyle as appropriate, since I don't know everything there is to know about it.

[aristarchus1000]

Barb have no AC, have a little DR, and have a lot of hitpoints to heal. It doesn't look like you are necessarily doing anything wrong from a build or gear point of view.

Which makes me wonder about gameplay.

Are you Two hander or Two weapon? If you are two handed, I would suggest trying to use your reach to hit mobs without letting them get in range to hit you. If you are two weapon, you may need to go second in after a more non-squishie (higher ac characters like fighters, monks, rangers, even) party-mate to avoid multiple mobs swarming and hitting you, and getting them to not aggro you first. Try to get hit by only one mob at a time, and that may require moving and around and semi-kiting while swinging a greataxe to avoid all the mobs from swarming you and making flanking attacks on you at the same time.

Hope this helps. High hitpoints help make you non-squishie in terms of avoiding instant-death, but they can be hard on a healer resources, and you need to use your playstyle to try to avoid taking damage.

[shortdevils]

Its ur playstyle.with 356 hp at lvl 14 , you are not squishy ON PAPER. But if u have the entire dungeon on you and the AC of a typical barb it may seem so.




Also, You shoulndt really zerg in a quest except you can solo it without a hireling.

[Snowborne]

I don't know what equipment you have, but if you don't already have it, I'd definitely get the Minos Helm, which not only gives you 20hp, but also heavy fort. I'd also make sure you have a Greater False Life item. With just these two items, that is 50hp. I also didn't notice any mention of a Toughness feat. With a toughness feat and the enhancements it unlocks, that would be another 62 hp. When combined, that is 112 HP.

[andbr22]

Well, it rather impossible but displacement realy helps. Also glittering dust or other blinding efeccts.
You also could use fearsome armor (when many mobs hit you some will just start running away), keep in mind tht can cause some serious party agro (they dont like to run after panicked monsters).
You have great str - try to trip oponents (casters / clerics it should work wonders).
Paralyse, (and Improve Curse spewing when two weapons) - also helps.

[Lleren]

It sounds like a playstyle thing.

You may be doing all or most of these things already, but if you are not, then they can help.

Resistance : Carry resistance pots, or ask for it for the damage types you re taking. The 20 point amrath resistance pots are more usefull then the 10 pointers, and 30 point cast is much better. If you have a mass protect cast on you and notice any of hte damage types losing points of protection you really should have that resist on you. you can also carry some Robes of Greater resistance and swap between when no mana types are around.

Paralyzing/Stunning/Tripping : These all fall under the area of crowd control, and while it really is not a Barbarian specialty, can be quite usefull in many groups. Tripping is something we are good at naturally and is a basic ability under Feats. Stunning blow is a feat we would have to take, and often there is not enough room to do so unless we splash Fighter levels. A Weapon with bonuses to the feat can be quite helpful. Paralyzers are fairly wonderfull for quite a few levels, and can save your mana bar types quite a bit of mana. A bunch of paralyzed obs is a lovely sight, to your healers as well

Movement : Limit the number of mobs attacking you at one time. Mobs have mroe trouble manuvering then players do. Often walls, corners, pillars, other mobs can slow them down in getting into position on you.

[sephiroth1084]

As Lleren mentioned, you have enough Str that using the Trip feat that you've received for free at level 1 is a good idea. If you can stand to work a weapon with some Vertigo on it into your normal usage, that will help even more.

Paralyzing weapons, particularly if you have good glancing blows, will help mitigate a lot of incoming damage. Try to get as many monsters paralyzed at a time as you can, rather than paralyzing one and killing it while the rest of the baddies continue to swing at your.

Stunning Blow really starts to get useful when you get to Gianthold, since monster HP goes up quite a bit there. Worth considering unless you absolutely cannot fit it in. Personally, I held off on Frenzied Berserker on my barbarian until level 18 (Cleave was my final feat) because I couldn't picture myself using Frenzy all that often with the weak healing and low SP pools of healers and casters before endgame. Doing it over, I'd probably take Cleave at level 15 to get FB I and II as I'm getting into The Shroud. Besides, Cleave is somewhat useless.

A high crit-range weapon with Bodyfeeder on it can also do a lot of good in mitigating incoming squishiness. There's also the docent/armor from the Sentinels series that gains a guard version of Bodyfeeder I believe.

[Buggss]

I'm leveling my first serious Barb, a HOrc who's now Level 14.

Lately I've been FEELING squishy. I seem to take massive amounts of damage. I specifically noticed this while running the new Lordsmarch quests tonight. I felt like the cleric was struggling to keep my hp up. He didn't complain, but....

I have 26 standing Con, 32 raged. With items, etc. I come to 356 hp standing, 398 raged. I have heavy fort and deathblock. Saves are Fort: 23, Reflex: 7 Will: 17 when raged (which is most of the time), 20/7/10 otherwise.

I started with 16 Con instead of 18 (which I now regret) but I'm wearing a +6 Con item, ate a +2 Con tome and have taken two levels of Barbarian Constitution.

In the level 14 range, is this squishy? Numbers-wise? Am I just an unwise player? Does it sound like I'm just putting myself in harm's way too much? I do like zerging but I think I know how to bite off as much as I can chew and no more.

I think it's one of two things:

I am missing a key element of my build and, once handled, I will become much less squishy
-OR-
My build should be fine and I need to refine my playstyle.

If anyone can tell which of these it is based on the data I've provided, I would be very grateful. If it's something else entirely (which I can't really imagine) please let me know. Since, like I said, this is my FIRST barb, I'm willing to change either my build or my playstyle as appropriate, since I don't know everything there is to know about it.

Firstly, I seriously love this post and all like it. Someone happy to admit there's something wrong, that they think there's a chance they're adversely affecting someone else's game enjoyment and that they need help to try and sort it out. The forum needs more people/posts like you/this.

So +1.

Secondly, if you don't already have them greater false life and a toughness feat + related enhancemets may help although they're only more hps and that doesn't seem to be what you're lacking. Some of the improvements to your damage reduction via barb enhancements may help as they work against each hit and bear in mind what others have said regarding your distances. If possible allow an AC build try to intimi mobs so you get several "free" hits in before they turn their attentions towards you and if you like get a cleric hireling for groups that aren't full and have them concentrate on you allowing the cleric to focus elsewhere.

Melee dps builds are like plastering though, you just have to keep doing it and eventually you should improve with experience.

"Everyone falls the first time..."

Morpheus.

Keep at it and keep posting in this manner.

[Anneliese]

Think of it this way - 16 to 18 con would only add 20HP to your HP pool at level 20.

[GBantaR]

Thanks so much to everybody who replied, especially Buggss for the super kind words.

It was encouraging to know that, on paper, I hadn't screwed anything up too badly. And to those who were wondering, YES I took Toughness and several of the subsequent enhancements! Don't worry, I wouldn't even consider doing otherwise! But I appreciate you checking.

Tonight I leveled to 15 and took Stunning Blow for my feat (where I had been planning to take GTHF, which I will now take at 18). BIG difference. I also got a Paralyzing Greataxe - again, BIG, BIG difference. I wanted to try letting another melee pull aggro before me but all the pugs I ended up in tonight, I was pretty much the only melee DPS, but I'm going to work on that in the future. The other BIG thing that helped was keeping enemies at the edge of my weapon range - i.e. out of THEIR weapon range.

With just a few adjustments, I'm feeling a lot better about my playstyle. THANK YOU ALL so much!

Edit: Oh and on the Trip thing that everyone mentioned, I already spam Trip so hard my "3" key (where it's mapped) has the paint worn off!

[Lleren]

Glad to know our advice helped =D

[Khellendros13]

If you are on Khyber, send a mail to Felgor and I will mail you a +10 stunning Warhammer ML14 for use in the off hand, since you deserve it

Oh are you THF or TWF?

I thought THF but you mentioned GTWF in the last post...

[sweez]

Also, You shoulndt really zerg in a quest except you can solo it without a hireling.

Or... you're with a party that wants quick xp?

[snoopy]

I usually hate to heal Barb's on my healers due to the fact that most monsters in a dungeon can hit you sneezing from across the room on a 1, this you become a mana sponge for the healer, causing the others to suffer at times. Zerging barbs i will let die, plain and simple. try offering your healers some heal scrolls or wands for the extra effort it takes to keep you up and carry plenty of your own pots.

[bryanmeerkat]

Or... you're with a party that wants quick xp?

Yep everyone knows the quick xp comes from dying , wiping and ragequitting the group because the healer cant heal through walls .

[Poffel]

Plenty of good advice already, so let me add just a four more points:

- Use Uncanny Dodge to get your reflex save to a score that matters. While your base reflex save is very low (which is common for a barb and not a build problem, even though you might still want to look out for better DEX/resistance items), you can chain-use Uncanny Dodge, whenever you expect heavy spell bombardment, and it really reduces the incoming damage a lot.

- If it hurts, just f***ing kill it. In other words, maximize your damage output. You may say "D'oh, I'm a barbarian.", but I'm specifically addressing the advice to use a paralyzing weapon. From my experience, there are few situations where it is actually preferable to use a paralyzer (on a barbarian), because by the time the effect sticks, you may as well have already killed the enemies if only you had used a real weapon. Of course this doesn't mean "Never use a paralyzer." - but effect weapons should be very situational on a barbarian, imho.

- Carry a shield, then hope to never have to use it. When you realize that you've pulled more aggro than you can handle, shield-blocking DR takes the edge off from incoming damage, so that healers have an easier time keeping you standing, and other party members get the opportunity to scratch the enemies off your bag. It should only be your last resort, but it for sure beats running in circles.

- There are a couple of not-so-easy-to-get items out there which would further improve your survivability. Healing Amplification is very useful. Some guard effects are quite helpful (e.g. Radiance guard, Demonic Shield etc.). Even though it's safe to assume that you won't get even close to these items at least for a couple of levels, something to keep in mind for the future...

[Lleren]

I usually hate to heal Barb's on my healers due to the fact that most monsters in a dungeon can hit you sneezing from across the room on a 1, this you become a mana sponge for the healer, causing the others to suffer at times. Zerging barbs i will let die, plain and simple. try offering your healers some heal scrolls or wands for the extra effort it takes to keep you up and carry plenty of your own pots.

Why would I stay at the back of the party surrounded by the dead mobs, when I could be at the front playing with live ones =D

Folks need to stop kiting mobs to the back of the Party, the front is where the killing takes place! ( even if they do it by standing still ) ... silly kiters!

[Consumer]

I usually hate to heal Barb's on my healers due to the fact that most monsters in a dungeon can hit you sneezing from across the room on a 1, this you become a mana sponge for the healer, causing the others to suffer at times. Zerging barbs i will let die, plain and simple. try offering your healers some heal scrolls or wands for the extra effort it takes to keep you up and carry plenty of your own pots.

That's ok, I find most good Barbs can carry on without the need for incompetent, greedy healers. Unless of course you want me to stop killing monsters for you.

[Sarisa]

The Lordsmarch chain tends to have higher damage mobs than most of the other quests in that level range.

Be sure your arcane/bard passes out Blur, and for the people with the most aggro (you), Displacement. These can greatly help reduce the amount of damage dealt. Crowd control helps, the cleric can swing a paralyzer, or use Greater Command.

When you fight a boss, the arcane can toss a Cloudkill in order to grant additional concealment.

DR, concealment, crowd control, and dodging incoming damage will be your most important methods for survival.

[Jiipster]

Yep everyone knows the quick xp comes from dying , wiping and ragequitting the group because the healer cant heal through walls .

That's rushing, badly.. Zerging is something else entirely.