Updated Max Int, SP, Spell Pen & DCs thread

[sephiroth1084]

Abishai cookie set worked into OP, but as separate count, due to their limited availability, shortish duration, and utter pain in the ass to acquire.

[Arlathen]

49 Base Spell DC

50 Necromancy spells while in Lich form (extra +1 to Necro)
50 Enchantment spells w/ purchased Bard past life feat (+1)
52 Evocation spells w/ x3 free Sorc past life feats (+1 each)
52 Conjuration spells w/ x3 Cleric past life feats
53 Conjuration spells w/ Epic Diabolist's Robe/Docent
+2 to all of these from the Abishai cookies for as much as 55 Conjuration DC at the high end
or

-1 (drop Lich form)
50 In a particular spell school with Archmage III(?)
51 Enchantment spells w/ purchased Bard past life feat (+1)
53 Evocation spells w/ x3 free Sorc past life feats (+1 each)
53 Conjuration spells w/ x3 Cleric past life feats
54 Conjuration spells w/ Epic Diabolist's Robe/Docent
+2 to all of these from the Abishai cookies for as much as 56 Conjuration DC at the high end

EDIT: Scratch all that, I see now - I missed the +2 Int account for Lich form on the Int DC Mod.

Excellant resource though, as a Newb Wizard I found it helpful matey. +1

[sephiroth1084]

EDIT: Scratch all that, I see now - I missed the +2 Int account for Lich form on the Int DC Mod.

Excellant resource though, as a Newb Wizard I found it helpful matey. +1

No prob. Most of the info is from Eunucorn, who had posted this a while back, but has since taken a break/quit DDO (he said he was quitting, but he's been on a couple of times since). I just updated a few of the newer sources and altered the formatting a bit (and corrected some of his arithmetic).

[Minrothad]

Much of this is copied from Eunucorn's thread.
Spell DCs
--------------------
10 base
9 max spell lvl
24 max INT mod
1 Spell Focus feat (pick a school)
1 Greater Spell Focus feat (same school)
2 Epic Staff of Inner Sight (+2 Spell Focus Mastery w/ Update 5!)
---------------------
47
1 purchased wizard past life feat (all schools)
---------------------
48
1 lvl6+ Spellsinger Bard DC song
---------------------
49 Base Spell DC


50 Enchantment spells w/ purchased Bard past life feat (+1)

House phiarlan ship buff +1

[bradleyforrest]

House phiarlan ship buff +1

Doesn't stack with items

[Dalros]

This is a great info, but i have recently found something odd.

I'm on my 4th life now getting my second wizard life currently level 16 and using Stormreaver Napkin. I found that going into lich form the +1 DC to necromancy spell does not stack with the napkin's spell master 1.

Is this a known bug or its the same reason it doesnt stack with house P ship buff?

[sephiroth1084]

This is a great info, but i have recently found something odd.

I'm on my 4th life now getting my second wizard life currently level 16 and using Stormreaver Napkin. I found that going into lich form the +1 DC to necromancy spell does not stack with the napkin's spell master 1.

Is this a known bug or its the same reason it doesnt stack with house P ship buff?

I haven't heard about that, and don't see why it should be happening. Are you sure that those are the two abilities not stacking? Maybe it's something else? I'll see if I can do some testing on this later, but the Lich form ability stacks with a Greater Necromancy Focus item, so I don't know why it wouldn't stack with the Napkin.

[sephiroth1084]

Added the new +4 Spell Penetration from Elven Arcanum in anticipation of its release with U9.

Added a note about the sorcerer Savant CL increase and how it relates to Spell Pen, but not sure how I'd incorporate it into the information as a whole, since it necessarily cannot be combined with the above mentioned bonus, and I don't know how it interacts with other CL increasing effects. Information on this point would be appreciated.

[Dalros]

I have tested it with and without napkin but with other items with necromancy focus 1, same result it does not seem to stack with lich for at least when it comes to necromancy 1, dont have death touch as of yet to test out necro focus 2,

Hope you are able to check it out more detail

[Matuse]

SP
--------------------
1205 Base 20 Wiz
696 =29*24 INT mod
200 Archmagi item
150 Shroud sp item
110 Energy of The Scholar I-IV
105 Mental Toughness Feat
105 Improved Mental Toughness Feat
400 Archmage V w/o investing in any of the PrE features
--------------------
2771 SP
60 x3 free Sorc past life
60 x3 free FvS past life feat
105 purchased Sorc past life feat
80 Crystal of Power (mgl 70, uses Large Guild Augment slot on loot-gen item)
--------------------
3076 maximum theoretical SP for Wiz
3134 with Abishai cookies

+50 for the Trinket of Cunning from Crystal Caves.

[Talltale-Storyteller]

Regarding DCs, something they added in DnD 3.5 was 1/2 Caster level to the DCs. I always felt like this was a good call, as it made the spell casters spells much more reliable. It was so necessary a change that I had already implemented it as a house rule a year before DDO published the change.

"****, I only got 3 level 1 spells a day, and he made his save!"

Maybe not needed in DDO, because of all the over the top buffs we have, but I've always wondered why they chose not to include that in the game design.

[sephiroth1084]

+50 for the Trinket of Cunning from Crystal Caves.

It would be less, actually, since it would replace Litany. I can go add it though (I think it ends up being +21 SP on a maxed-out caster).

Regarding DCs, something they added in DnD 3.5 was 1/2 Caster level to the DCs. I always felt like this was a good call, as it made the spell casters spells much more reliable. It was so necessary a change that I had already implemented it as a house rule a year before DDO published the change.

"****, I only got 3 level 1 spells a day, and he made his save!"

Maybe not needed in DDO, because of all the over the top buffs we have, but I've always wondered why they chose not to include that in the game design.

What? D&D 3.5 spell DCs work the same way that they do here: 10 + spell level + stat + other modifiers. As for dealing with low level spell DCs, we have Heighten for that very purpose.

[eunucorn]

Added the new +4 Spell Penetration from Elven Arcanum in anticipation of its release with U9.

Added a note about the sorcerer Savant CL increase and how it relates to Spell Pen, but not sure how I'd incorporate it into the information as a whole, since it necessarily cannot be combined with the above mentioned bonus, and I don't know how it interacts with other CL increasing effects. Information on this point would be appreciated.

Umm, sir, but where is the +80 SP that goes along with those enhancements? Sheesh!

I'm thinking about dipping my toe back into the U9 version of DDO just to land a 2000 point disintegrate on the Abbot. First i'll need all my stuff back at 10% interest.

Kidding. I think.

[sephiroth1084]

Umm, sir, but where is the +80 SP that goes along with those enhancements? Sheesh!

Too lazy at the time to drop the extra SP from the higher Int on a drow or human, then work this back in. I'll get to that in a few days. Still dealing with the wrap-up of the 5 Boro Bike Tour...just got off a 17.5 hour day on 4 hours of sleep, and am probably working at our warehouse for another 2 days. Later. Just to prep for then...its, what? -29 SP + 80 for a net of 51?

I'm thinking about dipping my toe back into the U9 version of DDO just to land a 2000 point disintegrate on the Abbot. First i'll need all my stuff back at 10% interest.

Kidding. I think.

If you want anything back that wasn't consumable (epic scrolls, Shroud ingredients, etc...) let me know and it's yours. If you need Shroud stuff, I'll give you whatever you want that I have.

[eunucorn]

Too lazy at the time to drop the extra SP from the higher Int on a drow or human, then work this back in. I'll get to that in a few days. Still dealing with the wrap-up of the 5 Boro Bike Tour...just got off a 17.5 hour day on 4 hours of sleep, and am probably working at our warehouse for another 2 days. Later. Just to prep for then...its, what? -29 SP + 80 for a net of 51?

For some reason I thought I read that all Elf races got the Arcanum enh line ... there is so much misinformation out there about the game. But ya, 51 extra for a helf. Pretty cool that you could conceivably hit 3k now with a Wiz.

If you want anything back that wasn't consumable (epic scrolls, Shroud ingredients, etc...) let me know and it's yours. If you need Shroud stuff, I'll give you whatever you want that I have.

I was just kidding about the stuff But I have been back on to check out the crafting. I kinda like it so far.

[Gratch]

Just to note while increases in caster level do increase spell pen, the max you can get from it right now is +2 from either the ToD archmage V set or the epic staff of arcane power.

I noticed while knocking Dreaming Dark doors, that the archmage tod set proc of +2 does stack with the epic staff of arcane power +2 for caster level - at least for knock. Wonder why they stack for knock (and for all buff durations) and not for spell pen. Or has it been changed since you tested? I should check if the spell pen #'s have gone up as well.

Also a question on the stacking.
+1 litany profane int
+4 Abishai 5 potions quaffed profane int

Does the Abishai give +5 (and you've already subtracted 1) or does profane stack with profane?

[Thriand]

I noticed while knocking Dreaming Dark doors, that the archmage tod set proc of +2 does stack with the epic staff of arcane power +2 for caster level - at least for knock. Wonder why they stack for knock (and for all buff durations) and not for spell pen. Or has it been changed since you tested? I should check if the spell pen #'s have gone up as well.

Also a question on the stacking.
+1 litany profane int
+4 Abishai 5 potions quaffed profane int

Does the Abishai give +5 (and you've already subtracted 1) or does profane stack with profane?

I've heard that the staff bonus and the ToD set do stack now, I can't personally test it myself as I don't have an archmage. I do know that the EStaff of Arcane Power seems to be typed the same as the bard song still and isn't stacking, however the evocation bonus from the now working Chrono set, the savant bonuses, and the evocation bonus from the new named robe all seem to be stacking. (can get to a CL 32 evocation with a 3 piece chrono set, robe, and ESoAP on a savant)

As far as the profane bonuses go, even though they are the same type they are completely stacking so its +4 and +1.

[WolfHealr]

INT
--------------------
20 base for Drow (19 human, 18 WF)
5 lvls
3 Wiz INT enh
4 Tome
7 item (Epic Staff of Inner Sight - two hander )or Epic Diabolist's Robe/Docent
1 exceptional INT+1 on ToD rings, DT armor or on a Shroud weapon
2 exceptional INT+2 on ToD rings or a Shroud weapon
1 Littany of the Dead
2 Wiz Capstone
2 Lich form
---------------------
47
2 Lesser INT Shrine (mgl 57 [46 gold seal], 60 minutes)
2 yugo pot (15 minutes)
2 store pot (10 minutes)
---------------------
53 sustainable
3 house D pot (1 minute)
---------------------
56
2 Completionist
---------------------
58 max theoretical INT for Wiz w/ Capstone => 24 INT mod
+4stacking profane bonus from consuming all 5 Abishai cookies
--------------------
62 max-MAX Int

SP
--------------------
1205 Base 20 Wiz
696 =29*24 INT mod
200 Archmagi item
150 Shroud sp item
110 Energy of The Scholar I-IV
105 Mental Toughness Feat
105 Improved Mental Toughness Feat
400 Archmage V w/o investing in any of the PrE features
--------------------
2771 SP
60 x3 free Sorc past life
60 x3 free FvS past life feat
105 purchased Sorc past life feat
80 Crystal of Power (mgl 70, uses Large Guild Augment slot on loot-gen item)
--------------------
3076 maximum theoretical SP for Wiz
3134 with Abishai cookies

The 24 INT modifier has 1 point from Lich form's +2 INT, and the Max SP total includes AM 5 enhancements - so would it be 29 SP less?

[Zerkul]

This thread is too much theorical, i don't like it to be honest. It just mislead DEVs you know, last time we talked about maths in Lamma forums we got Sorcerer's SLA nerfed (not the Tier III ones, which shouldn't work on red nameds and raid bosses). You know Theorical maximization is just theorical, in the game session things are almost always different: only sustainable/stable buffs and realistic scenarios works.

[sephiroth1084]

The 24 INT modifier has 1 point from Lich form's +2 INT, and the Max SP total includes AM 5 enhancements - so would it be 29 SP less?

Okay, so max SP needs to be adjusted down from Lich's +2 Int (-29 SP?). Does it need to be adjusted up for AM V, or is that the correct figure?

Spell Pen needs to be adjusted up for Elven Incarnum IV (+4). Is the gear all applying to this properly as it's listed?

Anyone else see any other issues? Mistakes? Omissions? I want to get this updated!