6ftr/14mnk Longsword Specialist

[bloodmoon96]

Two versions of the build, please critique.

Power Crit focus:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.2
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Female
(6 Fighter \ 14 Monk) 
Hit Points: 331
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 14
Will: 13

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             14                    21
Dexterity            17                    17
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence         10                    10
Wisdom               12                    14
Charisma             10                    10

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                    20
Bluff                 0                     1
Concentration         6                    31
Diplomacy             4                    18
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                0                     0
Heal                  1                     2
Hide                  3                     3
Intimidate            0                     1
Jump                  2                     7
Listen                1                     4
Move Silently         3                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     0
Search                0                     2
Spot                  1                     4
Swim                  2                     5
Tumble                7                    22
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longsword
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 3 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)


Level 5 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)


Level 6 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Whirling Steel Strike
Enhancement: Static Charge
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise II
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
Enhancement: Void Strike I
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Adept of Flame
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
Enhancement: Improved Jump I
Enhancement: Improved Jump II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I


Level 7 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 9 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 10 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 11 (Fighter)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Power Critical
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Kensei Longsword Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Concentration II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 13 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)


Level 14 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)


Level 15 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)


Level 17 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)


Level 18 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)


Level 20 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise III
Enhancement: Touch of Death
Enhancement: Porous Soul
Enhancement: All-Consuming Flame
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy II
Enhancement: Eagle Claw Attack
Enhancement: Winter's Touch
Enhancement: Master of Thunder
Enhancement: Master of Bonfires
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II

Stunning Focus:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.2
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Drow Female
(6 Fighter \ 14 Monk) 
Hit Points: 309
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 14
Will: 13

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             14                    21
Dexterity            17                    17
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence         10                    10
Wisdom               12                    14
Charisma             10                    10

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                    20
Bluff                 0                     1
Concentration         6                    31
Diplomacy             4                    18
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                0                     0
Heal                  1                     2
Hide                  3                     3
Intimidate            0                     1
Jump                  2                     7
Listen                1                     4
Move Silently         3                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     0
Search                0                     2
Spot                  1                     4
Swim                  2                     5
Tumble                7                    22
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longsword
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 4 (Monk)


Level 5 (Monk)


Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Whirling Steel Strike
Enhancement: Static Charge
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise II
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
Enhancement: Void Strike I
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Adept of Flame
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
Enhancement: Improved Jump I
Enhancement: Improved Jump II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I


Level 7 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting


Level 8 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Kensei Longsword Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Concentration II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 13 (Monk)


Level 14 (Monk)


Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Monk)


Level 17 (Monk)


Level 18 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Fist


Level 19 (Monk)


Level 20 (Monk)
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise III
Enhancement: Touch of Death
Enhancement: Porous Soul
Enhancement: All-Consuming Flame
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy II
Enhancement: Eagle Claw Attack
Enhancement: Winter's Touch
Enhancement: Master of Thunder
Enhancement: Master of Bonfires
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II

[Diyon]

A few problems I see here:

1. Longswords on a monk really lose out competing with handwraps after about 7 or 8 levels of monk. Whirling steel strike works best with a 1-8 lvl splash of monk.

2. Power critical is really not a good feat. You should probably be confirming almost all of your criticals without, especially with kensai I and its prereqs.

3. With the stunning blow version you have, you won't be able to get a stunning +10 LS, so your DC is only going to be like 23-24 tops unbuffed. With rage and madstone x2 I think that gets to 28-29. Really with stunning you want to shoot for a DC 35 or higher. You'd get more mileage out of taking stunning fist instead and stunning +10 handwraps, with a DC 33 (36 if the fighter enhancements work on stunning fist, not sure if they do).

4. You can't use quivering palm or touch of death with long swords.

5. Unless you're an elf/drow/halfling (most of the time even if you are not) or need/want high dex for other reasons its better to start with a 15 dex and use a +2 dex tome to meet the 17 dex prereq of GTWF. It may not be the easiest to find for someone newer to the game, but they do pop up in loot from time to time, and you can often trade a different +2 tome for the one you need. Also if you have enough content accessed, you can get one for reaching the 32 point build favor mark. EDIT: I just noticed you had drow as the race here. You may be better off with a 32 point build elf (since you don't need the points that are committed to Int and Cha automatically on drow) and that way you can take the elf long sword enhancements as well as higher str potentially. That being said most of the races could pull off what I suggest below.

My suggestion if you really want to go with a whirling steel strike character is that you perhaps invert the level split and try Fighter 14/Monk 6. If you want stunning blow there, you could push a DC of 36 or more depending on how you set your ability scores. If you go Fighter 18/Monk 2 you could get Kensai III and up that DC by at least 2 more and get better stats to the long swords. If you don't care that much about the long swords stuff, then reworking this character to use handwraps instead would be a good plan too.

[k1ngp1n]

You blow a feat at first level to get longsword proficiency when you're going to get it anyway with Fighter. So now you're down three feats instead of two to do less damage that just using fists.

Why did you take touch of death if you're using longswords?

If you roll this character you need to be prepared to have:
A.) Limited effectiveness at mid to late levels.
B.) Serious to-hit issues.
C.) Serious in-game rage.

If the goal is a flavor toon, and you don't expect to raid/epic much, etc, then go ahead.

[Diyon]

You blow a feat at first level to get longsword proficiency when you're going to get it anyway with Fighter. So now you're down three feats instead of two to do less damage that just using fists.

Why did you take touch of death if you're using longswords?

If you roll this character you need to be prepared to have:
A.) Limited effectiveness at mid to late levels.
B.) Serious to-hit issues.
C.) Serious in-game rage.

If the goal is a flavor toon, and you don't expect to raid/epic much, etc, then go ahead.

I completely missed the wasting a feat on Long sword proficiency. Either use the suggestion I made of using elf instead, or take a fighter level earlier at the very least.

[Ssmooth]

Why 14 starting str? Long swords are not finessable and your low starting str will end up hurting more than helping.

I guess this is only 1 of many confusing things I see on this build.

[DrNuegebauer]

Your fists will do more damage provided you have at least 1 monk level.

Oh - and you do...

I suppose it's a flavour build? But I think Drow is a bad idea for this build anyway - why not go normal elf? You get the racial bonuses to longswords at least...

[sumnz]

I cant help but think of a paladin solar phoenix. You wont be able to out dps the true dps, but a 12 paladin hunter of the dead/ 6 monk/1 rogue can have survival and bring other things to the table. You can get stupid healing amp with that kind of build.

[Therigar]

Players who might build a longsword using monk will fall into one of two groups. The will either be A) very experience players who are just looking for something different OR B) people without a clue.

If they are very experienced players they won't be coming to the forums asking about their build.

So, the only reasonable assumption is that OP doesn't have a clue -- which isn't necessarily negative. What we need to do is clarify things for them.

MAKING A LONGSWORD USING MONK IS AN ABSOLUTELY, HORRIBLY BAD THING TO DO!!!!

There is absolutely nothing good about the idea and no redeemable qualities in such a build. The same monk using its fists and decent handwraps will do more damage. A monk with the same starting stats and better feat selections will do much more damage. The only thing you can't get in handwraps that you might want from a longsword is vorpal -- and that comes on kamas. For boss beating a dark path monk with short swords does a decent job (and metalline of good short swords are pretty easy to obtain). That works until you find MoPG handwraps or get a ring to turn all your attacks into good damage (at which point any metalline handwrap works).

FWIW, going with drow as a racial choice is no worse than most of the race options. Somehow drow and dark path seem made for each other and drow is a poor man's 32-point build (for the player who bought monk but hasn't unlocked 32-point builds).

[Diyon]

Another note, you will really need GS longswords in later levels to be able to compete with handwraps on any character using whirling steel strike. Once again past 7 or 8 levels of monk it really doesn't make much sense to use the feat, and as has been said, even one level of monk and handwraps will remain competitive.

This feat is a really misleading feat for people and using typically effects an entire build's structure (unlike things like cleave). The shortsword stuff from ninja spy also tends to be misleading in the same sort of way (but not quite as big of effect on actual build). This feat you need to definitely know what you're doing to use well or have someone who does where you got the information.

I would have mentioned the Solar Phoenix build myself (I love playing mine), but it seems like the OP may be relatively new, and SP really needs 32 point build and is pretty gear specific, without those things you'll have even less dps than normally and without the trade off for the awesome survivability.

[Therigar]

The shortsword stuff from ninja spy also tends to be misleading in the same sort of way (but not quite as big of effect on actual build).

I would agree with this. The biggest use of shortswords is that they are relatively cheap to obtain in metalline of pure good form compared to other weapons and they gain IC: Pierce from the enhancement allowing them to crit on 17-20 all for the cost of an enhancement (no feats involved).

As I posted elsewhere, I probably use shortswords 1% of the time -- when I need MoPG boss beaters. And, I'll almost certainly switch if/when I get MoPG handwraps as I will then be able to add in Ki attacks in boss battles.

The strength of a monk's melee damage comes thru their Ki attacks and this means a monk should be using handwraps almost all of the time (all of the time if they have the right selection of handwraps).

[Diyon]

I would agree with this. The biggest use of shortswords is that they are relatively cheap to obtain in metalline of pure good form compared to other weapons and they gain IC: Pierce from the enhancement allowing them to crit on 17-20 all for the cost of an enhancement (no feats involved).

As I posted elsewhere, I probably use shortswords 1% of the time -- when I need MoPG boss beaters. And, I'll almost certainly switch if/when I get MoPG handwraps as I will then be able to add in Ki attacks in boss battles.

The strength of a monk's melee damage comes thru their Ki attacks and this means a monk should be using handwraps almost all of the time (all of the time if they have the right selection of handwraps).

Wounding of Puncturing and Banishing are also good uses there for the shortswords.

Note: The only ki attacks that only work on handwraps are quivering palm and touch of death. Everything else should work.

[gurgar78]

The advice to swap the split is spot on. I'm currently level 17 in what will eventually be an Elf 12 fig/7 monk/1 rog split. It's a decent toon. There are better builds, but it gets the job done.

[unbongwah]

Take a look at Solar Phoenix or my Tempest Phoenix for ideas on what you can do with a light monk using longswords. If you want a drow dark monk, you're better off sticking with short swords as a ninja, IMHO; drow racial enhs to SSs make up for the difference in base dmg and your to-hit will be higher (drow racial + lower offhand penalty). Plus it saves you two feats - well, only 1 if you go Kensai. Something like rogue 13 / monk 7 or monk 7 / ftr 12 / rogue 1 or monk 6 / paladin 14 would be my vote.

EDIT: forgot to mention that some monk abilities only work with handwraps; in particular ToD, which is arguably a dark monk's best source of DPS, despite the nerf. So if you take a dark monk past lvl 9, you're almost always better off sticking with handwraps.