Helves Angel: A Burst DPS Build (12ftr/6Rgr/2Monk)

[flipwon]

How does this build fair at low levels, as a first toon?
What is the general strategy etc? ranged bows? It seems cool but the early feats scare me into thinking it has gimped dps at low levels without having the plat to sufficiently gear it.. is this the case? Tips would be great

[Dark-Star]

Low levels take a few hours to get through, so for most are trivial. I would not worry about any build in the 1-12 range.

Leveling up I would recommend meleeing almost completely, until you get a lot of the ranged feats. Then melee almost always still, unless your Many Shot timer is up.

It can work as a first build. Ideally you would want to level up as a paladin and then TR to the Helves Angel.

Good luck!

[Dark-Star]

We'll see how things finalize, but if the below goes through it means a significant DPS increase for the Helves Angel when Many Shotting at close range:

The base damage of Thornlord is 2d8+4, so within point blank shot range it will become 4d8+8.

We *are* considering an across the board change to epic weapons to treat all tier one epics as having a +1(Base Weapon Damage) effect on them inherently and setting them back to normal base damage for their weapon type*, in which case Epic Thornlord would be 1d8+2 with +1(Base Weapon Damage), so would deal 2d8+4 damage on normal shots, and 3d8+6 damage on point blank shot hits. That base damage improvement would roll through crits as expected.

If we went with that change, then as a tier two epic weapon, the Epic Sword of Shadows would be a 2d6 weapon with an inherent +1.5(Base Weapon Damage), for a total of 5d6 base damage.

I like the consistency of that and the obvious improvement scheme for the future that comes along with it, and it'll also let me put other effects in that increase Base Weapon Damage without becoming grossly overpowered on epic stuff.

* Weapons with unusual damage codes can still retain them if we go with this concept, like Epic Sting's d12 damage die.

[haluhk]

With the impending changes to the Damage boost enhancements and point blank shot, will helves angel build require any tinkering to utilize the effects? Or we are fine the way it is?

[Dark-Star]

It already uses both.... and haste boost 4.

The damage this build will kick out next update has me very excited. It benefits from it all.

[Th3ThirdFall3n]

idk if there was a post on this, the thread is pretty long, but any chance u could inform me of the monk stance u'd be using most of the time? or situationally depending on the necessity?(or is it that u dont use the stances at all :s)?

Just curious, tryin this build out n i just hit my first monk lvl so i thought it'd be fitting to ask

[Dark-Star]

Leveling up I like to use fire stance for the Ki generation.

At cap, if hand wraps were the weapon you go with, wind stance will be the most DPS due to the double strike bonus.

[Th3ThirdFall3n]

note taken*

TYVM

[Killerbg]

Basically what im doin is like that in flavor....but more free feats. 6 Fighter/3 Monk/ 11 Ranger. thats way you still get Kensai/AA mix but you lose out on Kensai II(no big loss really). with the 11 Ranger you get all the feats that you need for AA to be an effecient AA. went WIS build with Zen Archery and took Monk for toughness, WIS based AC, and evasion. also taking monk on this build gives you the choice to boost your to hit while fighter enhancements take care of damage at higher levels where i have seen it lacking on the AA pure. to give you a level to level break down i prebuilt this toon on the character generator

Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Elf Male
(6 Fighter / 3 Monk / 11 Ranger)
Hit Points: 321
Spell Points: 430

BAB: 19/19/24/2929
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 11
Will: 15

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 16 16 19
Dexterity 8 8 8
Constitution 14 14 15
Intelligence 8 8 8
Wisdom 18 23 25
Charisma 8 8 8

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance -1 -1 -1
Bluff -1 -1 0
Concentration 6 17 19
Diplomacy -1 -1 0
Disable Device n/a n/a n/a
Haggle -1 -1 -1
Heal 8 19 19
Hide 1 11 11
Intimidate -1 -1 0
Jump 7 25 25
Listen 4 7 7
Move Silently 1 3 3
Open Lock n/a n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair -1 -1 -1
Search -1 -1 -1
Spot 8 23 28
Swim 3 4 4
Tumble n/a n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a n/a

Level 1 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Heal (+4)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Barbarian
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Bow Strength
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Half-Elven Keen Senses
Feat: (Automatic) Half-Elven Mixed Heritage
Feat: (Automatic) Half-Elven Social Graces (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Feat: (Automatic) Wild Empathy

Level 2 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Zen Archery
Feat: (Automatic) AC Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Breezes
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Candles
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Pebbles
Feat: (Automatic) Disciple of Puddles
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Kama
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Shuriken
Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves
Feat: (Automatic) Flurry of Blows
Feat: (Automatic) Unarmed Strike

Level 3 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Rapid Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Two Weapon Fighting

Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Diehard

Level 5 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Spell (1): Camouflage
Spell (1): Jump
Spell (1): Longstrider
Spell (1): Merfolk's Blessing
Spell (1): Ram's Might
Spell (1): Resist Energy
Spell (1): Summon Nature's Ally I
Spell (1): Tumble

Level 6 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Elemental
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness

Level 7 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
Feat: (Automatic) Meditation

Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Manyshot

Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Precise Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Wild Empathy
Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
Enhancement: Half-Elf Improved Damage Reduction I
Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes I
Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Wisdom I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance I
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer I
Enhancement: Improved Spot I
Enhancement: Improved Spot II
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I
Enhancement: Ranger Energgy of the Wild I
Enhancement: Half-Elf Barbarian Constitution I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
Enhancement: Half-Elf Barbarian Toughness I

Level 10 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Spell (2): Barkskin
Spell (2): Bear's Endurance
Spell (2): Cat's Grace
Spell (2): Cure Light Wounds
Spell (2): Hold Animal
Spell (2): Mass Camouflage
Spell (2): Owl's Wisdom
Spell (2): Protection From Energy
Spell (2): Snare
Spell (2): Spike Growth
Spell (2): Summon Nature's Ally II
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion II
Enhancement: Half-Elf Barbarian Toughness II

Level 11 (Ranger)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows
Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild II

Level 12 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Chaotic Outsider
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Enhancement: Half-Elf Improved Damage Reduction II

Level 13 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Precise Shot
Spell (3): Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (3): Neutralize Poison
Spell (3): Remove Disease
Spell (3): Summon Nature's Ally III
Spell (3): Wild Instincts
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Strength I

Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Critical
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Tower Shield Proficiency
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows

Level 15 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I

Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Jump (+1)
Enhancement: Improved Spot III
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion III

Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Ranged Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows

Level 18 (Fighterr)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness

Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows
Enhancement: Kensei Longbow Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I

Level 20 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
Feat: (Automatic) Fast Movement
Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves: Path of Harmonious Balance (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves: Path of Inevitable Dominion (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Still Mind
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows
Enhancement: Fighter Strength

even though it looks like i took AA late, i really didnt. Due to the similarities in both elven and ranger AA i had to re-do my error on the Charcter Generator

[goodspeed]

maybe im just blind, it is 4 am. But what was the helf dili taken in the op for the build? At one point I saw cleric recommended until reaching later levels and switching it, but can't seem to find what should be taken.

[aristarchus1000]

maybe im just blind, it is 4 am. But what was the helf dili taken in the op for the build? At one point I saw cleric recommended until reaching later levels and switching it, but can't seem to find what should be taken.

Rogue for sneak attack damage.

[Killerbg]

nah i went Barb for Hp and CON, also Rogue Dilli is so over-rated considering you need to NOT have aggro. AA builds are aggro stealers at higher levels due to burst damage hence Rogue Dilli is worthless at that level. Cleric is also good since you can do more healing side. a Helf with Cleric Dilli at its highest an use Heal scrolls at 95%

[aristarchus1000]

nah i went Barb for Hp and CON, also Rogue Dilli is so over-rated considering you need to NOT have aggro. AA builds are aggro stealers at higher levels due to burst damage hence Rogue Dilli is worthless at that level. Cleric is also good since you can do more healing side. a Helf with Cleric Dilli at its highest an use Heal scrolls at 95%

Well, if you are going for more of a tank build with aggro, you can certainly choose a different Dilly, this build is not designed as a Horoth tank, and uses Rogue Dilly to add dps.

For leveling, I agree that Rogue Dilly isn't so good on an optimized build like this. This build is so good it will get aggro almost all the time in weak pugs.

However, at end game, for raids and the like, you will/should get sneak attack bonuses most of the time.

[Killerbg]

Well, if you are going for more of a tank build with aggro, you can certainly choose a different Dilly, this build is not designed as a Horoth tank, and uses Rogue Dilly to add dps.

For leveling, I agree that Rogue Dilly isn't so good on an optimized build like this. This build is so good it will get aggro almost all the time in weak pugs.

However, at end game, for raids and the like, you will/should get sneak attack bonuses most of the time.

lol i dont do "weak pugs" but i have stolen aggro off of some well geared hate tanks when i shouldnt have been able to on my old AA. 2000 damage seems to get a mobs attention really fast, plus the build im going for is a high crit build so im predicting slaying arrows will proc alot on this build, about twice as much than my old AA and that was quite a bit with just improved crit and power crit (quite useless imo). i was reading this thread alot and decided i would put some informed facts here.....you do need mental toughness or one of the enhancements from the elf wizzy, sorc or bard line for AA along with weapon spec ranged. its not just many shot that makes an AA what they are its a combo of many shot, Improved Precise Shot, Rapid Shot and their arrows and imbuements, and honestly if your gonna kite....do it right. pulling a mob into another room away from the party results in death and a very agrivated party so just drag them through the party

[wax_on_wax_off]

lol i dont do "weak pugs" but i have stolen aggro off of some well geared hate tanks when i shouldnt have been able to on my old AA. 2000 damage seems to get a mobs attention really fast, plus the build im going for is a high crit build so im predicting slaying arrows will proc alot on this build, about twice as much than my old AA and that was quite a bit with just improved crit and power crit (quite useless imo). i was reading this thread alot and decided i would put some informed facts here.....you do need mental toughness or one of the enhancements from the elf wizzy, sorc or bard line for AA along with weapon spec ranged. its not just many shot that makes an AA what they are its a combo of many shot, Improved Precise Shot, Rapid Shot and their arrows and imbuements, and honestly if your gonna kite....do it right. pulling a mob into another room away from the party results in death and a very agrivated party so just drag them through the party

Slayer arrows only proc on vorpal strikes which requires a natural 20 and then a confirmed critical. This means that at most 5% of your arrows will be slayer arrows (equating to a average of 25 bonus damage/shot).

Quite a few AA's that I've spoken to seem convinced that they get Slayer arrow procs more than possible. Not sure why.

When it comes down to it, when manyshot is on timer you have between 1/3 and 1/2 the attack speed of melee but only do ~10% more damage. The outcome is damage that isn't comparable to melee (unless effectively lining up 2-3+ mobs with IPS).

[RS-Makk]

Would you folks think past life rogue would be an acceptable alternative to past life paladin on this build? Otherwise, I am willing to LR into more paladin levels before TR to get the paladin past life.

[Dark-Star]

Past Life: Paladin is far better. +3 to hit and damage for 15+ minutes per shrine, vs. +10 to sneak attack for three minutes.

[furbyoats]

lol i dont do "weak pugs" but i have stolen aggro off of some well geared hate tanks when i shouldnt have been able to on my old AA. 2000 damage seems to get a mobs attention really fast, plus the build im going for is a high crit build so im predicting slaying arrows will proc alot on this build, about twice as much than my old AA and that was quite a bit with just improved crit and power crit (quite useless imo). i was reading this thread alot and decided i would put some informed facts here.....you do need mental toughness or one of the enhancements from the elf wizzy, sorc or bard line for AA along with weapon spec ranged. its not just many shot that makes an AA what they are its a combo of many shot, Improved Precise Shot, Rapid Shot and their arrows and imbuements, and honestly if your gonna kite....do it right. pulling a mob into another room away from the party results in death and a very agrivated party so just drag them through the party

You steal aggro when:

1) Your tank is not properly built/geared

2) You don't know how to manage your aggro.

If you hit manyshot within the first 20 seconds of a boss fight you will pull aggro. If you let a bit of aggro build up then you can lay down the hurt and get the full damage. With haste boost IV rolling, i estimate about 70-85 arrows per manyshot. 3d6+8 from tharnes cranks out 11-26 sneak attack per arrow. Going with 75 arrows per manyshot that means 825-1950 damage from sneak attack alone on one manyshot. This isn't even factoring in the sneak attack damage that you pump out in melee only situations.

It's the same reason that rogues do disgusting damage, but have to learn when to lay it on thick and when to back off.

I've pulled aggro with this build (sans the pally past life) using melee weaps only on "geared" tanks. protip: they were not geared.

This build is ridiculous burst dps, and in U11 it's only going to increase. It's a toon that you have to really learn how to play to maximize dps. Going in guns blazing will only mess up party mechanics and lower your output. It's not a high HP barb that you can just smash faces and get away with it. It takes brains and a bit of finesse to get the full potential.

BTW Dark, great build...I've been moving some enhancements/feats around to suit my needs, but the overall concept is the same. Tons of fun to play

p.s. You could have a crit range of 5-20 and you would still have the same % chance to proc a slayer arrow as a toon with a 20 only crit range. Slayer arrows have nothing to do with weapon crits.

[Crann]

I have selected this build as the 3rd (and final for a while) life for my main. He was life one ranger, and I had planned on the current life being monk. I can however use a Lesser Reinc. to make life 2 whatever I want.

My question is this:

With the new and improved bosses making for longer battles, is my 15 minutes of +3 to hit and damage still the best route, or should I grab another ranger PL for the persistant +2 damage to ranged? Or monk for +1 to ranged and melee?

I am thinking Pally is where its at, Healing amp won't hurt either, but you guys have alot more experience with where the games going. Is the Pally PL still good for the new endurance contests?

Edit: My other thought about another PL ranger over pally is that it frees 2 feats to use for Khopesh(i have lit2) and something else.

[furbyoats]

I have selected this build as the 3rd (and final for a while) life for my main. He was life one ranger, and I had planned on the current life being monk. I can however use a Lesser Reinc. to make life 2 whatever I want.

My question is this:

With the new and improved bosses making for longer battles, is my 15 minutes of +3 to hit and damage still the best route, or should I grab another ranger PL for the persistant +2 damage to ranged? Or monk for +1 to ranged and melee?

I am thinking Pally is where its at, Healing amp won't hurt either, but you guys have alot more experience with where the games going. Is the Pally PL still good for the new endurance contests?

Edit: My other thought about another PL ranger over pally is that it frees 2 feats to use for Khopesh(i have lit2) and something else.

My opinion:

This build's DPS relies on the bursts and Power Surge (absolutely delicious). Looking at Power Surge alone, you get 7 charges per shrine...which is 7 Minutes of optimal DPS (bursting when they are off cooldown). IF you are going to get the pally past life and you want extend...I would dump stunning blow and take khopesh proficiency.

Although with the new alchemical weapons coming out, stunning blow may be more useful.

Personally on my toon, i dropped stunning blow and didn't bother with quick draw (personal preference).

I would think that the PL pally would be better than the other past lives, and I may TR through a pally life once i get all the gear set up for this toon.