Helves Angel: A Burst DPS Build (12ftr/6Rgr/2Monk)

[Omarlittle]

Hey---so far a lot of fun. I am assuming weapon specialization and weapon mastery are for longbow, right? And the latter is different from the kensai specified weapon mastery enhancement?

thx

joe

[Dark-Star]

Not sure what you mean by weapon mastery, but weapon focus: ranged is taken to qualify for Arcane Archer. The rest of the weapon focus and specializations in heavy picks are taken to qualify for Kensai I and II.

Glad you are enjoying the build!

[Omarlittle]

Not sure what you mean by weapon mastery, but weapon focus: ranged is taken to qualify for Arcane Archer. The rest of the weapon focus and specializations in heavy picks are taken to qualify for Kensai I and II.

Glad you are enjoying the build!

I don't mean the feats, I mean the enhancements...

Fighter (41)
10 haste Boost IV
2 Weapon Specialization I
2 Weapon Mastery II
3 Attack Boost II
3 Critical Accuracy II
4 Kensai I
2 Kensai II
3 Toughness II
12 Strength III


Weap specialization and Weap mastery as listed above---do you choose longbow there? Or do they go towards what you chose as a feat? And the latter is different from the kensai specified weapon mastery enhancement? Why not take that enhancement?


tx

[Dark-Star]

Thanks for posting the build Dark this is the most fun that i have had leveling a TR. I didnt have pally past life so i took the quick draw which works incredible with the build and in the enhancements i changed the last strength out to get stunning blow build up and now that i am capped i can get my SB to 47 for the minute of power surge. It is definitely nice setting up my own crits. 8)
Looking forward to your next build

Thanks! Glad you are enjoying the Helves Angel. I have two more friends that started them on Khyber and seem to be crushing content.

I have two new builds in the wings, waiting on the final dev adjustments for U9...

[Dark-Star]

I don't mean the feats, I mean the enhancements...

Fighter (41)
10 haste Boost IV
2 Weapon Specialization I
2 Weapon Mastery II
3 Attack Boost II
3 Critical Accuracy II
4 Kensai I
2 Kensai II
3 Toughness II
12 Strength III


Weap specialization and Weap mastery as listed above---do you choose longbow there? Or do they go towards what you chose as a feat? And the latter is different from the kensai specified weapon mastery enhancement? Why not take that enhancement?


tx

Those are for picks. Remeber the Helves Angel is only going ranged when the Many Shot timer is free, the other 100/120 seconds is all thundering melee.

[Omarlittle]

Those are for picks. Remeber the Helves Angel is only going ranged when the Many Shot timer is free, the other 100/120 seconds is all thundering melee.

Ah, thx. I went kopesh rather than pick, figuring that they would be the way to after update 9. any thoughts on that yet?

joe

[Zerenety]

Does this build look good?

NOTE: I couldn't raise the UMD more than 0,5 each lvl. Does this happen ingame?

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.2
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Elf Male
(12 Fighter \ 2 Monk \ 6 Ranger) 
Hit Points: 326
Spell Points: 170 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 16
Will: 9

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             17                 24                   28
Dexterity            17                 19                   19
Constitution         14                 16                   16
Intelligence          8                 10                   10
Wisdom                8                 10                   10
Charisma              8                 10                   10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               5                 19                   19
Bluff                -1                  0                    2
Concentration         2                  3                    5
Diplomacy            -1                  0                    2
Disable Device       n/a                n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                  0                    0
Heal                 -1                  0                    0
Hide                  7                 13                   13
Intimidate           -1                  0                    2
Jump                  5                 18                   18
Listen               -1                  0                    0
Move Silently         7                 13                   13
Open Lock             n/a               n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                  0                    0
Search               -1                  0                    0
Spot                 -1                  0                    0
Swim                  3                  9                    9
Tumble                4                  5                    5
Use Magic Device      1                 11                   11

Level 1 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 2 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 3 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons


Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 5 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 6 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 7 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 8 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 9 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons


Level 11 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Precise Shot


Level 13 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Precise Shot


Level 15 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow


Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Jump (+2)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows
Enhancement: Kensei Khopesh Mastery I
Enhancement: Kensei Khopesh Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Khopesh Specialization I
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante I
Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer I
Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II

[Sillk]

I have two new builds in the wings, waiting on the final dev adjustments for U9...

Do any of them take advantage of this:

"Mountain Stance III and IV now also increase the critical multiplier of monk weapons (and unarmed combat) by 1 on rolled of a natural 19 or 20." -- Assuming Zen Archery makes a bow a monk weapon.

My Arcane Archer is salivating over this for his next TR.

I'm thinking Ranger 6 / Monk 12 / X 2 (Probably Fighter)

[Almagnus1]

I think this was discussed earlier, but why not go with THF instead of TWF?

Is the damage produced by THF not nearly enough compared to TWF?

[Sillk]

I think this was discussed earlier, but why not go with THF instead of TWF?

Is the damage produced by THF not nearly enough compared to TWF?

Ranger 6 gives you TWF & ITWF free.

[Dark-Star]

Do any of them take advantage of this:

"Mountain Stance III and IV now also increase the critical multiplier of monk weapons (and unarmed combat) by 1 on rolled of a natural 19 or 20." -- Assuming Zen Archery makes a bow a monk weapon.

My Arcane Archer is salivating over this for his next TR.

I'm thinking Ranger 6 / Monk 12 / X 2 (Probably Fighter)

From another post I made (math wall incoming):

Depending on how you play your monk, earth stance may not provide enough ki generation, even with Oremis necklace. Big crit numbers are nice, but so is having enough ki to hit your strikes and finishers.

Earth III/IV only affects your first number, wind stance hits every number and strike you might be doing.

The four stances seem more balanced to me now.

Fire for max to hit (if str based) and max ki generation for the monks that spam strikes, -1 to wisdom based DCs, highest base damage.
Wind for max DPS, adjusted for less ki generation, slightly lower to hit (unless dex based).
Earth for the biggest crits, and a viable alternative for some monk splash builds, lower to hit, slower movement, highest hitpoints.
Water for highest saves and highest DCs, a more important factor now in epics with saves raised by 4.

Assuming an average of 50 base damage, the +1 crit multiplier adds 50 damage 10% of the time, or 5 damage average damage per hit.

Fire adds 2 damage per hit, and .2 per crit. Assuming the doubled ki generation allows for twice as many ki strikes (both will keep stunning fist and ToD on timer), and we only cycled earth 2-4 and void4, (8+12+16+20=46 per second, or roughly another 13 damage per attack (3.5 attacks per second), or 15 total.

Wind adds 10% chance of another full attack/ki strike. 50 base + 1 force + 3.5 frost + 10.5 bane 7 holy + 7 holy + 3.5 shock + 3.5 fire +15 average ki strike damage = 100 x 10% or 10 damage average per base strike. Crit = 50 +50 elemental/bane + 5.5 frost +5.5 shock + 10.5 holy = 121 x1 0% x 10% = 1.2 average per crit. ToD average = 650 (save half the time, hits twice on average) every 15 seconds or 43 average damage x 10% = 4.3. Totaled 10 base + 1.2 crits + 4.3 ToD = 15.5. ToD can proc up to 5 times in Wind IV, and these numbers don't include the instant death from Void4, which again heavily favors wind stance.

So in answer to your question, while the earth III and IV changes are nice, they are not top DPS stances.

My two new builds will be a pure sorc and a tanking mutt.

[Dark-Star]

I think this was discussed earlier, but why not go with THF instead of TWF?

Is the damage produced by THF not nearly enough compared to TWF?

Like the poster above stated, 6 ranger gives twf and itwf for free. U8 twf probably inched out thf with an epic SoS, but it's pretty close depending on the skill of the player. TWF just works better for this build.

[Almagnus1]

Like the poster above stated, 6 ranger gives twf and itwf for free. U8 twf probably inched out thf with an epic SoS, but it's pretty close depending on the skill of the player. TWF just works better for this build.

I should have spotted that, I blame that on late night posting XD

**edit** I really should stop posting past midnight XD

[xberto]

Not sure what you mean by weapon mastery, but weapon focus: ranged is taken to qualify for Arcane Archer. The rest of the weapon focus and specializations in heavy picks are taken to qualify for Kensai I and II.

I posted earlier a few pages back and I finished my 6/6/8 ranger/fighter/pally ranged build just to get the pally past life. It was actually a pretty fun build and play style is a lot like helves angel minus the kensai burst but you get pally Chalice bonuses.

I started Helves Angel and I'm level 10. For personal preference, I went Kensai Longbow. I just had some concerns, maybe they are unwarranted, about missing ranged shots because of lower dex, where as this will never be a concern with melee. This will free up a feat because I don't need to take Weapon Focus Pierce. I think I'll take IC Slash insead. This way gives me more melee versatility and adds even more punch to my manyshot. Anyhow, thats how I wanted to do it. So what does the Helves Angel bow attack bonus end up being vs the attack bonus of Heavy Pick and what is the mob AC break point where you start missing ranged attacks?

[Almagnus1]

After dragging the build into the char planner, and working around with it a bit, I'm hoping this is a (somewhat) optimized leveling version, with the goal of not only getting Balance and UMD as high as they can be, but also getting the prestige classes as early as possible, and evening out the distribution of enhancements which is why the levels in ranger and monk are more spread out.

Skill-ups have been included because skill distribution uses monk levels to boost balance, which (at one point) requires the prior ranger level to NOT invest in balance, but hide and move silent instead, to maximize the monk skill points.

Other notable changes:

Two past lives, one in ranger, and another in paladin (My char that's going to TR into a Helve's Angel will have this). If you only have one past life (recommend pally), drop strength to 16, and bump con to 14. If you don't have a past life, drop strength to 15, and bump con to 14.

I also went with scimitars instead of khopeshes or heavy picks for flavor, there's enough flexibility to adapt to whatever weapon you want to use.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.2
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Elf Female
(12 Fighter \ 2 Monk \ 6 Ranger) 
Hit Points: 306
Spell Points: 200 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 16
Will: 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             17                    28
Dexterity            17                    19
Constitution         13                    15
Intelligence          8                    10
Wisdom               13                    15
Charisma              8                    10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               5                    23
Bluff                -1                     2
Concentration         1                     4
Diplomacy            -1                     2
Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
Haggle               -1                     0
Heal                  1                     4
Hide                  7                    12
Intimidate           -1                     2
Jump                  6                    13
Listen                1                     2
Move Silently         7                    11
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair               -1                     0
Search               -1                     0
Spot                  1                     2
Swim                  3                     9
Tumble                3.5                   4.5
Use Magic Device      1                    11.5

Level 1 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Cleric
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I


Level 2 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 3 (Fighter)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Soldier of the Faith
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 5 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 7 (Fighter)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Quick Draw
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 9 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Improved Cleric Dilettante I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II


Level 10 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+2.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Enhancement: Improved Cleric Dilettante II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II


Level 11 (Ranger)
Skill: Hide (+3)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows


Level 12 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 13 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows
Enhancement: Kensei Scimitar Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II


Level 15 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Precise Shot
Enhancement: Fighter Scimitar Specialization I
Enhancement: Improved Cleric Dilettante III


Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows


Level 18 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Precise Shot
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III


Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows
Enhancement: Kensei Scimitar Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows

[Almagnus1]

I was wondering, would there be any advantage to sacrificing one of the feats to pick up Zen Archery, and remaining centered by using robes and a monk-friendly weapon?

[Sillk]

Depending on how you play your monk, earth stance may not provide enough ki generation, even with Oremis necklace. Big crit numbers are nice, but so is having enough ki to hit your strikes and finishers.

Earth III/IV only affects your first number, wind stance hits every number and strike you might be doing.

I was actually thinking of a playstyle similar to your build in the OP. Mountain Stance / Many Shot, then go in punching with Fire Stance or Air Stance.

[RS-Makk]

Dark, are you running it with stunning blow? Just wondering if you are getting effective stunning blow in epics (and would you expect to in epics after u9)? I need to tr, and am split between trying something like what impaqt posted ('abuser'), to go for some handwraps based stuns for trash, or your build.

[Dark-Star]

Yes I have Stunnng Blow atm, and with the high strength of the build have a decent enough DC to land it fairly often even without a stunning weapon equipped. I like SB very much.

Stuns take a hit in U9, but still provide a +50% increase for most damage. Saves for epic mobs are increased by 4. The coming importance of weapon speed and higher base damage over crit multiplier has me strongly considering wraps over picks. It would also allow for easy equiping of a stunning weapon. As to Zen Archery? I will have to test it to see if the bother of toggling the stances on all the time is worth fitting in the feat.

[Blank_Zero]

Yes I have Stunnng Blow atm, and with the high strength of the build have a decent enough DC to land it fairly often even without a stunning weapon equipped. I like SB very much.

Stuns take a hit in U9, but still provide a +50% increase for most damage. Saves for epic mobs are increased by 4. The coming importance of weapon speed and higher base damage over crit multiplier has me strongly considering wraps over picks. It would also allow for easy equiping of a stunning weapon. As to Zen Archery? I will have to test it to see if the bother of toggling the stances on all the time is worth fitting in the feat.

All those gs picks... going bye bye for wraps.... what has the world come to clean?