Ultimatums: neccessary or nonsense

[Bunker]

Every so often in DDO, you might join someone's group. Take a break from all guild questing and friend filled raids. Decide to group with players that you dont' know.

Leaders of these groups will give Ultimatums. IE. "Do this, or else."

Most common Ultimatum I have been witness to is, "Do <insert action>, or else you are banned from my groups forever"

Few questions:

Is this common practice in pugs these days?

Is this appealing to not only leaders but party members?

Is anyone leader that does ths imporant enough, that you feel you would loose out by being banned from thier groups?

Are certain situations neccessary over others where ultimatums are an important gaming tool?

I'm posting this on Thelanis cause this is where I play. However, I'm sure this happens on all servers, so speak your mind.

-Bunk

P.S. This happened to me in a Shroud today. Group was told in part 5, "stay in pool while we single pull mobs, or else you will be banned from my raids forever." This sparked me to wonder what everyone thinks.

Disclaimer: This is not about outing anyone, complaining and such. Simply curious how players on Thelanis feel and think.

[Trillea]

Every so often in DDO, you might join someone's group. Take a break from all guild questing and friend filled raids. Decide to group with players that you dont' know.

Leaders of these groups will give Ultimatums. IE. "Do this, or else."

Most common Ultimatum I have been witness to is, "Do <insert action>, or else you are banned from my groups forever"

Few questions:

Is this common practice in pugs these days?

Is this appealing to not only leaders but party members?

Is anyone leader that does ths imporant enough, that you feel you would loose out by being banned from thier groups?

Are certain situations neccessary over others where ultimatums are an important gaming tool?

I'm posting this on Thelanis cause this is where I play. However, I'm sure this happens on all servers, so speak your mind.

-Bunk

P.S. This happened to me in a Shroud today. Group was told in part 5, "stay in pool while we single pull mobs, or else you will be banned from my raids forever." This sparked me to wonder what everyone thinks.

Disclaimer: This is not about outing anyone, complaining and such. Simply curious how players on Thelanis feel and think.

Never heard this, and whatever leader did this would be blacklisted by me. I do NOT respond well to ultimatums.

[Jakarr]

I'v been in a few grps like that and for the most part I see it only in a few guilds(which I wont be naming) as I almost always pug I'd have to say I only see this in high-end quests/raids and maybe 1 out of every 20 grps I join.


I dont see it as a issue just someone wagging there epeen around, I laugh at em and just do what I am supposed to do during the raid/quest.

[SardaofChaos]

Never had the 'or else' part pulled on me, but have had some obnoxious people drop from a pug when a quest didn't go quite right. And by obnoxious I mean the kind of people who just exude this "I'm so awesome you should be glad I decided to join your group and if you're not all perfect builds who finish everything in less than a minute I will blacklist you forever" aura. So I guess I've had some implied ultimatums coming from people who join my groups.

[protokon]

Every so often in DDO, you might join someone's group. Take a break from all guild questing and friend filled raids. Decide to group with players that you dont' know.

Leaders of these groups will give Ultimatums. IE. "Do this, or else."

Most common Ultimatum I have been witness to is, "Do <insert action>, or else you are banned from my groups forever"

Few questions:

Is this common practice in pugs these days?
I have not seen it very often in all the pugging I do (which is a lot, considering I am in a one-man guild ATM)

Is this appealing to not only leaders but party members?
I can see why a frustrated leader would use it to try and control the party better, but I also think if it is unnecessarily thrown out there it may cause me to re-think hitting that person's LFM again(I.E. if anyone pulls mobs in center of part 2 shroud they will be blacklisted)

Is anyone leader that does this important enough, that you feel you would lose out by being banned from there groups? 99% of the time when in a situation like this, the person is unknown to me and is more likely to get on my nerves and cause me to avoid them

Are certain situations necessary over others where ultimatums are an important gaming tool?
-I can't say that I have not given them out before, there is occasionally the stubborn pugger who will insist to do something his way (maybe he wants to feel the center of attention, like tanking or pulling mobs or whatever the case is) after telling them repeatedly, I will ask them if they would please drop group if they won't follow the leader's instructions (me). Most people who run with me will often hear me say while giving instructions, "if you don't understand the instructions or know what your doing, say something now so i can clarify or be prepared to be verbally abused" -and I have very, very rarely resorted to actually doing this (It is meant to come off as a joke). I don't see it as an important tool, but I do see it as a tool that can sometimes be used to make someone realize they are not acting like a team player at that moment, even if unintentionally.


I'm posting this on Thelanis cause this is where I play. However, I'm sure this happens on all servers, so speak your mind.

-Bunk

P.S. This happened to me in a Shroud today. Group was told in part 5, "stay in pool while we single pull mobs, or else you will be banned from my raids forever." This sparked me to wonder what everyone thinks.

Disclaimer: This is not about outing anyone, complaining and such. Simply curious how players on Thelanis feel and think.

my thoughts and comments in red bunk

p.s. - I also did an early morning shroud today in which I had two casters, I asked one to get on the ele and the other to get on the crystal- the one who was assigned to the fire ele typed in party chat (after instructions) "I can get crystal!" and of course, moments later I had to resort to draining nearly all my SP bar (on a fvs) to keep the party up while beating on two of the other mobs. I am guilty and said several times, "hey why are you not following directions? Jesus, if your not gonna follow my instructions I'd rather ask you to recall and drop group"

-although I dont think i said it as extreme as "do this or be blacklisted from me forever"

[Yajerman01]

Every so often in DDO, you might join someone's group. Take a break from all guild questing and friend filled raids. Decide to group with players that you dont' know.

Leaders of these groups will give Ultimatums. IE. "Do this, or else."

Most common Ultimatum I have been witness to is, "Do <insert action>, or else you are banned from my groups forever"

Few questions:

Is this common practice in pugs these days? With the influx of new players because of f2p, this behavior might be more prevalent now then it has in the past, whether becasue the leader is trying to control the newbs by command or its becasue the newb (leader) thinks this type of behavior is okay.

Is this appealing to not only leaders but party members? It is never appealing IMO, but it can be useful.

Is anyone leader that does ths imporant enough, that you feel you would loose out by being banned from thier groups? Never

Are certain situations neccessary over others where ultimatums are an important gaming tool? Only a tool would use this as a general tool. For the most part ultimatiums no matter what shape or form are negative and degridating. There are so many other forms of dialogue that can get your message across other then to threaten another.

I'm posting this on Thelanis cause this is where I play. However, I'm sure this happens on all servers, so speak your mind.

-Bunk

P.S. This happened to me in a Shroud today. Group was told in part 5, "stay in pool while we single pull mobs, or else you will be banned from my raids forever." This sparked me to wonder what everyone thinks. The leader could have simply stated, "okay, if i did not designate you to do something, please stay here in the pool". If a person did not listen, I would have silently noted it or did some other method to ensure I don't roll out with someone who doesnt want to listen. Aside that, I would have retorted to the leaders comments that would be r-rated.

Disclaimer: This is not about outing anyone, complaining and such. Simply curious how players on Thelanis feel and think.

Response in red

[Varr]

So............did you stay in pool?

[Varr]

Ps.....I bet the leader was a cleric! I'd bet the farm on it !!!

[crazy7381]

On Orien I have only ran into one pug (and I have pugged my way to 20) that the player,who was not even the person who put up the LFM, decided to lead a Sins of Attrition. Chose the devil boss instead of the orthon on normal. Had us stop in every hallway while he pulled and almost died a few times.

I tried to tell him what would work better ie using nearest shrine instead of ddoor to beginning we were close to the end of the quest and he got insulted and became more aggressive with his leadership skills that I had to squelch his voice chat because I was ready to buy a plane ticket to France and choke him out (me being from Colorado to stress the severity of it).

Another point we waited for a wizzy who d/c'd I and the lfm poster opted to continue on but he said we required the wizzys disco ball... really?! I know it makes it easier but its not an impossible quest you can even solo til ransacked I digress.

His leadership skill really came in handy when he didnt even relize cleric was out of sp.

All in all finished the run mr. french left after looting chest and I joined a shroud made me happy beating on hairy took the edge off.

Kinda derailed the forum post but sorry no ultimatum just a frustrating elitist.

[biggin]

I've only ran into this a few times, ultimatums being given unnecessarily. I can kind of see it, say in a Von 5, if someone is repeatedly doing something stupid, like grabbing quest objects and not knowing what to do with them, then in 6 being told to stay behind the barrier or else be blacklisted. I might not say it, but I know a few who would.

However, if it's over something silly like "throw out or ask for any unnecessary buffs and be banned from my groups" or in the example you gave, personally I would just laugh at the person. I wouldn't go against his instructions just to **** him off, if I join someones group I follow the instructions as best I can. Maybe he just walked out of 3 failed raids in a row that I wasn't a part of and he's sick and tired of failing. But in those few cases where I think it's just over the top (and you can usually tell from the entirety of the raid) I'll just avoid that person in the future. There's too many good hearted people to run with to worry about those few who try and take away the "fun" of DDO.

[KingOfCheese]

A command like this directed at the party as a whole is asking for trouble and counterproductive in my mind.

The desired result could be achieved via other routes. "Please stay in the pool. . . . . Hey X, would you mind please staying in the pool. . ." Sure this can get a little frustrating if some people don't listen--but those same people are unlikely to respond to a ban threat AND there is an increased chance that ptherwise compliant people will also disobey because they don't like the tone.

Depending on my mood (and I am generally considered a pretty friendly guy and solid team player), I might go tearing around the room in response to such a command.

[stoolcannon]

Unless my dad comes back from the grave and starts handing out orders in DDO then I won't be taking ultimatums very well. If you're the leader and you tell me what to do I'm going to do it every time to the best of my ability. I might offer suggestions for a better way but ultimately it's your group, your rules so I'll defer if you don't like my advice.

But if you lead in demanding that I do something or else I'm more than likely going to tell you to "eat sh*t and live" before proceeding to do my own thing.

Honestly, it's people that say that kind of **** that find their way to my squelch list in a hurry. I rarely squelch people for any reason other than being a complete ******. You can play terribly, make mistakes etc with no repercussion in my world but if you're an as*hole you're done for me.

[Kmnh]

sleet storm than ddoor, right on his nose. say a polite "thanks for the run" and take the the ddoor yourself , even if he doesn't fall for it

[Ironforge_Clan]

Bunk I've been in several pugs recently that were exactly like that. That being said with the current state of things it is sometimes necessary because you usually have a handful of players that simply won't listen if a leader asks them to hold tight for buffs and so and so will pull. There are a number of newish players that simply decide hey I'm going to do this on my own and hell with you. Those are the same ones that then ***** about not getting buffs or come running back with less than their red bar.

I think the ultimatum is a bit harsh but based upon what I've experienced sometimes it is the only thing that works.

Cheers

[phillymiket]

Unnecessary.

At least not directed at the group as a whole.

Maybe if one person was griefing or not doing something the leader wanted repeatedly that individual may warrant such an ultimatum but never a group as a whole.

I joined a group where the leader, before "Hi. Howya doin", starts with "1- Do bla, bla, bla. 2- Dont do bla, bla, bla"
(one of the instructions was "stay behind me NOBODY steals my kills" believe it or not )
I said "gotta go. GL with the run" and dropped out. So did others.

I have about as much patients for rudeness as apparently some others have for a simple mistake.

I have no problem following the leader at all but there is a right way and a wrong way to provide instruction. Those knives don't need to come out except on the rarest of circumstances.

Who cares if I'm banned from this person or that persons group anyway?
I play this game to have fun. Plenty of fish in the sea. I don't need to run with that type to get what I need from this game.

[PopeJual]

Every so often in DDO, you might join someone's group. Take a break from all guild questing and friend filled raids. Decide to group with players that you dont' know.

Leaders of these groups will give Ultimatums. IE. "Do this, or else."

Most common Ultimatum I have been witness to is, "Do <insert action>, or else you are banned from my groups forever"

Few questions:

Is this common practice in pugs these days?

Is this appealing to not only leaders but party members?

Is anyone leader that does ths imporant enough, that you feel you would loose out by being banned from thier groups?

Are certain situations neccessary over others where ultimatums are an important gaming tool?

I'm posting this on Thelanis cause this is where I play. However, I'm sure this happens on all servers, so speak your mind.

-Bunk

P.S. This happened to me in a Shroud today. Group was told in part 5, "stay in pool while we single pull mobs, or else you will be banned from my raids forever." This sparked me to wonder what everyone thinks.

Disclaimer: This is not about outing anyone, complaining and such. Simply curious how players on Thelanis feel and think.

You will not issue ultimatums to me or I will drop group and make fun of you on teh intarwebs!

This, I command!

[Kourier]

I don't believe I've run into one of these people you describe, fortunately. I PuG almost exclusively and I've never even really seen people squelch each other while in party.

[protokon]

Depending on my mood (and I am generally considered a pretty friendly guy and solid team player), I might go tearing around the room in response to such a command.

sad to say If i am in a bad mood as well, and I don't know the person doing this, I may behave the same way socks

[Delt]

I have never seen this and I PUG almost exclusively.

/shrug

Hypothetically, I would likely purposefully move a few feet off the side. I am guilty of provoking people for a personal laugh...never at the expense of completion/success though. Just harmless ******baggery

[donfilibuster]

Well, that sort of thing is supposedly done on people that is either not listening repeteadly, being careless, being need elsewhere, being squishy or otherwise risking giving the party a hard time.
Unfortunately these things happens quite often.

It would be an exaggeration from the leader to want everyone to work like clockwork, more tipically it takes a few unheeded calls to make them angry.
And it should be reciprocal, if the leader wants you to listen they should be willing to listen to you as well.

As with any PUG, might be a good idea to speak with the leader if he worries about your toon.
Telling them that u know the quest and can handle it on your own would be good if they have doubts, like often happens with multiclass builds.
At the very least it will let the leader worry about others and not you.