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  1. #61
    2016, 2018 Player Council Member Ziindarax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord_of_rage View Post
    Im not impressed with how much you think you know about the paladin class. Nor as it seems are the other experienced paladin players that have responded. The fact that you bring up die hard and fop as better than kopesh simply proves my point. You then say warhammers are as good as a kopesh when they dont have the crit range. Please learn the ins and outs first.
    I don't find it amusing looking, and virtually playing (in terms of build), like everyone else in the game; I embrace variety, and find it to work just fine for me. If I wanted to be the same as everyone else, I'd be playing World of Warcraft, not DDO - the game that I thought was faithfully based on the D&D setting where you could be anyone you want to be, use any weapon you want, and still be a viable contribution to your party/team - seems I was wrong. Or am I?

    With TWF (taken all the way to Greater Two Weapon Fighting) and Improved Criticals: Slashing, a scimitar has a 30% chance to land a critical hit. Put a scimitar/rapier in each hand, and given the strong likelihood of their being an off-hand attack, you could have up to a 60% chance to land a critical hit (with the off-hand critical automatically proccing a critical in the main hand in the next attack afterwards). 60% vs 40% (with Khopesh in each hand). That is, in my opinion, a significant enough of a difference to tilt a feat starved paladin toward using scimitars. The only time a stronger weapon would be more ideal is when you consider epic weapons (in which epic scimitars would be total garbage for a paladin) and mobs that ignore critical hits via heavy fortification (in which case, I'd use a bastard sword, or a two-handed weapon instead of a khopesh if I were to make twf paladin).

    On the other side of the argument, scimitars have inferior strength attack/damage mods compared to the Khopesh. And the Epic Khopesh are better for Paladins being alignment based, whereas the epic scimitar is geared more toward Rogues.

    In the end, and I would appreciate if my rep were not trolled any further due to differences of opinion and play-style, it boils down to what the player likes, and their combat philosophies. Play what you like, and what you think is best.
    Last edited by Ziindarax; 12-08-2010 at 12:56 PM.
    Ziind Stargazer - Level 12 fighter/6 Barbarian/2 rogue Half-Orc (Neutral Good) - Formerly a level 20 Paladin Human - Orien

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  2. #62
    Community Member k1ngp1n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziindarax View Post
    (with the off-hand critical automatically proccing a critical with the main hand in the next attack).
    Huh? Are you sure you know what's what here?
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  3. #63
    2016, 2018 Player Council Member Ziindarax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by k1ngp1n View Post
    Huh? Are you sure you know what's what here?
    Yes, or so I thought. When you use smite and divine sacrifice and/or critical hit, and they comes up on your offhand attack, does it not also show up on your main hand? Or have I gotten things mixed up from listening to the wrong players?

    Bah, I'll stick with what I know for certain - Two Handed Fighting.
    Last edited by Ziindarax; 12-08-2010 at 12:59 PM.
    Ziind Stargazer - Level 12 fighter/6 Barbarian/2 rogue Half-Orc (Neutral Good) - Formerly a level 20 Paladin Human - Orien

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  4. #64
    Community Member Junts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziindarax View Post
    I don't find it amusing looking, and virtually playing (in terms of build), like everyone else in the game; I embrace variety, and find it to work just fine for me. If I wanted to be the same as everyone else, I'd be playing World of Warcraft, not DDO - the game that I thought was faithfully based on the D&D setting where you could be anyone you want to be, use any weapon you want, and still be a viable contribution to your party/team - seems I was wrong. Or am I?

    With TWF (taken all the way to Greater Two Weapon Fighting) and Improved Criticals: Slashing, a scimitar has a 30% chance to land a critical hit. Put a scimitar/rapier in each hand, and given the strong likelihood of their being an off-hand attack, you could have up to a 60% chance to land a critical hit (with the off-hand critical automatically proccing a critical in the main hand in the next attack afterwards). 60% vs 40% (with Khopesh in each hand). That is, in my opinion, a significant enough of a difference to tilt a feat starved paladin toward using scimitars. The only time a stronger weapon would be more ideal is when you consider epic weapons (in which epic scimitars would be total garbage for a paladin) and mobs that ignore critical hits via heavy fortification (in which case, I'd use a bastard sword, or a two-handed weapon instead of a khopesh if I were to make twf paladin).

    On the other side of the argument, scimitars have inferior strength attack/damage mods compared to the Khopesh. And the Epic Khopesh are better for Paladins being alignment based, whereas the epic scimitar is geared more toward Rogues.

    In the end, and I would appreciate if my rep were not trolled any further due to differences of opinion and play-style, it boils down to what the player likes, and their combat philosophies. Play what you like, and what you think is best.
    Getting an offhand critical hit does not cause you to be more likely to critical hit with any subsequent attack.

    Khopeshes are so much better than other weapons against basically everything we fight in DDO that your continued crusade in the face of basic mathematics is embarrassing. This isn't a question of 'style' or 'preference'. It is a mathematical fact. Everything else being equal, weapons with stronger critical characteristics do more damage. The Khopesh has stronger critical traits than the scimitar, and in fact it has better critical characteristics than everything but specific epic 2handed weapons. For this reason they are widely used. A scimitar has better critical traits than a bastard sword and does more damage than one in every situation excecpt a monster with 100% fortification. Using bastard swords is proactively detrimental to your effectiveness.

    If you want to suck, it is your prerogative. Please do not mislead others who do not wish to suck into doing so.


    As for how smite and divine sacrifice work, it is simple.

    You never have an 'offhand' attack. You attack 5 times and you always swing with your mainhand weapon. Depending on what feats and/or enhancements (eg ranger tempest) you have, you have a x% chance that you will also preform an offhand attack on that same animation. With greater twf and no ranger tempest enhancements, this chance is 80%. Therefore, any time you make a smite evil or divine sacrifice attack, you have a 100% chance of making said attack with your mainhand, and the same 80% chance of also making it with your offhand at the exact same time. If you go hit something and swing for just one animation, you will find that you get 2 sets of damage 80% of the time (eg, your offhand procrate).

    Doublestrike works identically but with a 10% chance and granting you another blow with the primary weapon and not the secondary one. You can never gain a double-strike proc from an offhand proc (eg with 10% doublestrike, you will get 110% mainhand and 80% offhand attacks).
    Last edited by Junts; 12-08-2010 at 01:15 PM.

  5. #65
    2016, 2018 Player Council Member Ziindarax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junts View Post
    Getting an offhand critical hit does not cause you to be more likely to critical hit with any subsequent attack.

    Khopeshes are so much better than other weapons against basically everything we fight in DDO that your continued crusade in the face of basic mathematics is embarrassing. This isn't a question of 'style' or 'preference'. It is a mathematical fact. Everything else being equal, weapons with stronger critical characteristics do more damage. The Khopesh has stronger critical traits than the scimitar, and in fact it has better critical characteristics than everything but specific epic 2handed weapons. For this reason they are widely used. A scimitar has better critical traits than a bastard sword and does more damage than one in every situation excecpt a monster with 100% fortification. Using bastard swords is proactively detrimental to your effectiveness.

    If you want to suck, it is your prerogative. Please do not mislead others who do not wish to suck into doing so.


    As for how smite and divine sacrifice work, it is simple.

    You never have an 'offhand' attack. You attack 5 times and you always swing with your mainhand weapon. Depending on what feats and/or enhancements (eg ranger tempest) you have, you have a x% chance that you will also preform an offhand attack on that same animation. With greater twf and no ranger tempest enhancements, this chance is 80%. Therefore, any time you make a smite evil or divine sacrifice attack, you have a 100% chance of making said attack with your mainhand, and the same 80% chance of also making it with your offhand at the exact same time. If you go hit something and swing for just one animation, you will find that you get 2 sets of damage 80% of the time (eg, your offhand procrate).

    Doublestrike works identically but with a 10% chance and granting you another blow with the primary weapon and not the secondary one. You can never gain a double-strike proc from an offhand proc (eg with 10% doublestrike, you will get 110% mainhand and 80% offhand attacks).

    +1 for the clarification! Thanks!
    Ziind Stargazer - Level 12 fighter/6 Barbarian/2 rogue Half-Orc (Neutral Good) - Formerly a level 20 Paladin Human - Orien

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  6. #66
    Community Member Junts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziindarax View Post
    +1 for the clarification! Thanks!

    Note that the attacks are rolled separately, so you aren't guaranteed to get crits on both swings from a divine sac or smite; you can get none, two, or either crit and the other not./

  7. #67
    Community Member lord_of_rage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziindarax View Post
    I don't find it amusing looking, and virtually playing (in terms of build), like everyone else in the game; I embrace variety, and find it to work just fine for me. If I wanted to be the same as everyone else, I'd be playing World of Warcraft, not DDO - the game that I thought was faithfully based on the D&D setting where you could be anyone you want to be, use any weapon you want, and still be a viable contribution to your party/team - seems I was wrong. Or am I?

    With TWF (taken all the way to Greater Two Weapon Fighting) and Improved Criticals: Slashing, a scimitar has a 30% chance to land a critical hit. Put a scimitar/rapier in each hand, and given the strong likelihood of their being an off-hand attack, you could have up to a 60% chance to land a critical hit (with the off-hand critical automatically proccing a critical in the main hand in the next attack afterwards). 60% vs 40% (with Khopesh in each hand). That is, in my opinion, a significant enough of a difference to tilt a feat starved paladin toward using scimitars. The only time a stronger weapon would be more ideal is when you consider epic weapons (in which epic scimitars would be total garbage for a paladin) and mobs that ignore critical hits via heavy fortification (in which case, I'd use a bastard sword, or a two-handed weapon instead of a khopesh if I were to make twf paladin).

    On the other side of the argument, scimitars have inferior strength attack/damage mods compared to the Khopesh. And the Epic Khopesh are better for Paladins being alignment based, whereas the epic scimitar is geared more toward Rogues.

    In the end, and I would appreciate if my rep were not trolled any further due to differences of opinion and play-style, it boils down to what the player likes, and their combat philosophies. Play what you like, and what you think is best.
    I havent trolled your rep. But by continuing to champion wrong information you are not doing yourself a favor. The kopesh is a better weapon. The math backs it up. As a human you get an extra feat so you really are not wasting one. Junts pointed out the further inaccuracies in your post so I wont dwell on them. You can use scimitars or rapiers but they do not do as much dps as a kopesh. Its that simple.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trillea View Post
    Maybe your forum name should be lord_of_halfling_rage then...

  8. #68
    Community Member stille_nacht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by painindaguild View Post
    completely wrong.
    the more damage u do on a base hit the more scimitar gets boosted. the problem is, as soon as scimitar gets actually "better", ur in the zone of base damage no character can physically hit yet.
    when level cap rises and base damage gets boosted scimitars will become the new overpowered weapon.
    until that time khopesh all the way. dwarven axe is also decent and look awesome.
    basically, the higher the bonus, the higher the khopesh goes, why?

    essentially, khopesh and rapier get the same from crits (as in physical crits)
    15-20 x2 and 17-20 x3 come out to the exact same amount of damage.
    The reason the khopesh is better is because it has 2-16 x1 as a pose the the rapier's 2-14 x1, and it also has higher base damage.


    also, repetition THE CRITS ON BOTH WEAPONS DO EXACTLY THE SAME THING FOR PHYSICAL STRIKES
    khopesh does, however get more from burst crits because 11(2d10)x.2> 5.5(1d10)x.3

    after lots of math tables, for a a khopesh has 1.85(i think) more damage per swing base on a gs, .55 more damage per swing for each bursting effect, and .1 more damage for every strength/enhancement mod you have.

    so really it comes down to the question, do you want to give up 3+ damage per hit for whatever other feat you plan on taking or not?
    Last edited by stille_nacht; 12-08-2010 at 07:55 PM.
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  9. #69
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stille_nacht View Post
    15-20 x2 and 17-20 x3 come out to the exact same amount of damage. ... also, repetition THE CRITS ON BOTH WEAPONS DO EXACTLY THE SAME THING FOR PHYSICAL STRIKES
    This is a very misleading way of putting it. While it is true that 6 * 2 = 4 * 3, we can do a simple check to establish that this does not accurately reflect the difference in damage done by examining the hypothetical case of two weapons, each with 2d4 + 0 (= 5 on average) base damage, one with the improved rapier crit characteristics and one with the improved khopesh:

    Improved "rapier":
    1: 0
    2: 5
    3: 5
    ...
    14: 5
    15: 10
    ...
    20: 10
    Total: 5 * 13 + 5 * 2 * 6 = 125

    Improved "khopesh":
    1: 0
    2: 5
    ...
    16: 5
    17: 15
    ...
    20: 15
    Total: 5 * 15 + 5 * 3 * 4 = 135

    It is not a coincidence that 135 - 125 = 5 * (4 * 2 - 6 * 1). The value (multiplier - 1) * (threat) is the relevant value when comparing in the seekerless regime, not the value (multiplier) * (threat). Scimitar/rapiers and khopeshes only see the same contribution from seeker and effects like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziindarax
    Put a scimitar/rapier in each hand, and given the strong likelihood of their being an off-hand attack, you could have up to a 60% chance to land a critical hit
    A small correction here: even if we assume 100% off-hand attack rate, there would not be a 60% chance to land at least one critical hit with two scimitar/rapiers. The chance would be 1 - (1 - 30%) * (1 - 30%) or 51%. For non-Tempests, it would be 1 - (1 - 30%) * (1 - 30% * 80%) or 46.8%.

  10. #70
    2016, 2018 Player Council Member Ziindarax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinerd View Post
    A small correction here: even if we assume 100% off-hand attack rate, there would not be a 60% chance to land at least one critical hit with two scimitar/rapiers. The chance would be 1 - (1 - 30%) * (1 - 30%) or 51%. For non-Tempests, it would be 1 - (1 - 30%) * (1 - 30% * 80%) or 46.8%.
    So the the threat for dual-wielding scimitars/rapiers with improved critical would only be marginally better than dual-wielding khopesh?
    Ziind Stargazer - Level 12 fighter/6 Barbarian/2 rogue Half-Orc (Neutral Good) - Formerly a level 20 Paladin Human - Orien

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  11. #71
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    The same reasoning applies to khopesh critical threats: for the 100% offhanders it would be 36% chance of at least one critical (so a difference compared to the scimitar/rapier of 15% rather than 20%), for the 80% it would be 32.8% (so a difference of 14% rather than 18%). The threat is still more than marginally better, it was just a question of how much more.

  12. #72
    Community Member Emili's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AylinIsAwesome View Post
    TWF
    ITWF
    GTWF
    Improved Critical
    Toughness
    Khopesh Proficiency
    Power Attack

    Add Extend for a Human.

    How is it impossible to fit in the feat?



    Khopeshes are crit power 8.

    Rapiers and Scimitars are crit power 6.

    That's huge for a TWF melee.



    This is factually incorrect.

    Rapier/Scimitar:

    .95 * 3.5 + .3 * 5.5 = 4.975

    Khopesh:

    .95 * 3.5 + .2 * 5.5 * 2 = 5.525


    Burst effects have greater effect on weapons with a higher critical multiplier.



    So...you're not impressed with Epic Chaosblade? o_O
    If you're a human gtwf paladin Khopesh is the way to go... if WF or H-orc I prefer going down 2hf lines all other races I tend to sway towards the racial weapons because Paladin is so feat thin (yes even though my Drow pally has Khopesh proficency I find myself wanting to just switch to 2hd lines on her). Why? - am starving on feat - tormented by extend - df zeal etc... become far less to deal with. Pally is a button mashing class to start... one cast of DF or Zeal while engaged is well over 100-500 DPS lost on the cast time and given the group they tend to waste your self-buff at the most irrational times.

    Heavy picks... come epic anyone can make a decent set of GS heavy picks and the fact that you're IC: Slash make little difference as the trash mob will usually be mass-held by caster and earthgrab occurs just as often anyhow... Come the epic boss and is better to switch back Khopeshes again. My main is a human gtwf khopesh fighter ... she also has a set of tri pos hammers for skeles, and guess what some GS picks are also in plan for held epic trash. For now lit II khopesh does the job and are better for the most bosses anyway.

    Chaos blades - Epic'd under pally are killer... fact is come devil beaters outside the two 2handers (eSoS and eAGA) is primo.

    Min II <- good general purpose devil beaters but not what they once were they're still a good weapon come elite Shroud, VoD or ToD - BUT NEVER ON PALLY ... Holy sword all the way on pally when come EO unless the three epic weapons I mentioned.

    Lit II <- the Lit II Khopesh is probably one of the best of all general purpose weapons... fact is even in norm Devil spewn quests they will produce more dps than a min II (only come hard and elite does the DR drop them back).

    Picks - Again these are tops under autocrit situations (epic trash)... outside that the boss subcumbs to wide crit and epic weapons far quicker. Outside of epic - trash are nearly "unimportant."

    Last edited by Emili; 12-09-2010 at 11:49 AM.
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  13. #73
    Community Member kernal42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziindarax View Post
    I don't find it amusing looking, and virtually playing (in terms of build), like everyone else in the game; I embrace variety, and find it to work just fine for me. If I wanted to be the same as everyone else, I'd be playing World of Warcraft, not DDO - the game that I thought was faithfully based on the D&D setting where you could be anyone you want to be, use any weapon you want, and still be a viable contribution to your party/team - seems I was wrong. Or am I?
    You can build how you want out of preference, and you can build how you want out of style, and you can build how you want for RP - nobody has any reason to criticize these choices. But you're not asking about preference or rp or style, you're asking which weapons are better, so we're answering.

    Second - we're not virtually playing the game. We understand how it works, and we're answering your questions and correcting your misconceptions. Don't try to put down the forum community on account of your ignorance of game mechanics.

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  14. #74
    Community Member rabrams99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emili View Post

    If you're a human gtwf paladin Khopesh is the way to go... if WF or H-orc I prefer going down 2hf lines all other races I tend to sway towards the racial weapons because Paladin is so feat thin (yes even though my Drow pally has Khopesh proficency I find myself wanting to just switch to 2hd lines on her). Why? - am starving on feat - tormented by extend - df zeal etc... become far less to deal with. Pally is a button mashing class to start... one cast of DF or Zeal while engaged is well over 100-500 DPS lost on the cast time and given the group they tend to waste your self-buff at the most irrational times.

    Heavy picks... come epic anyone can make a decent set of GS heavy picks and the fact that you're IC: Slash make little difference as the trash mob will usually be mass-held by caster and earthgrab occurs just as often anyhow... Come the epic boss and is better to switch back Khopeshes again. My main is a human gtwf khopesh fighter ... she also has a set of tri pos hammers for skeles, and guess what some GS picks are also in plan for held epic trash. For now lit II khopesh does the job and are better for the most bosses anyway.

    Chaos blades - Epic'd under pally are killer... fact is come devil beaters outside the two 2handers (eSoS and eAGA) is primo.

    Min II <- good general purpose devil beaters but not what they once were they're still a good weapon come elite Shroud, VoD or ToD - BUT NEVER ON PALLY ... Holy sword all the way on pally when come EO unless the three epic weapons I mentioned.

    Lit II <- the Lit II Khopesh is probably one of the best of all general purpose weapons... fact is even in norm Devil spewn quests they will produce more dps than a min II (only come hard and elite does the DR drop them back).

    Picks - Again these are tops under autocrit situations (epic trash)... outside that the boss subcumbs to wide crit and epic weapons far quicker. Outside of epic - trash are nearly "unimportant."

    great analysis

    +1 rep

  15. #75
    Community Member Twerpp's Avatar
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    I briefly considered using scimis instead of khopeshes. Then I grew a brain.

  16. #76
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    I appreciate threads like this. It tends to make me think.

    I decided to go Falchion as my main choice for now & stick to 2H. Thought it would be best, since recently returning & coin isn't exactly overflowing atm
    How much of a difference is say Falchion compared to khopeshes? Huge, large, small dps difference?

    I know it's a stupid question, just didn't wish to start a new thread & all :/.

    Was going to use this build.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.7.0 BETA
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    good 
    Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
    (20 Paladin) 
    Hit Points: 352
    Spell Points: 295 
    BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
    Fortitude: 22
    Reflex: 12
    Will: 12
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    24
    Dexterity             8                    10
    Constitution         15                    18
    Intelligence         12                    14
    Wisdom                8                    10
    Charisma             16                    20
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               0                     8
    Bluff                 3                     6
    Concentration         2                     4
    Diplomacy             3                     6
    Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                4                    14
    Heal                 -1                     0
    Hide                 -1                     0
    Intimidate            3                    15
    Jump                  4                    11
    Listen               -1                     0
    Move Silently        -1                     0
    Open Lock            n/a                    n/a
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                1                     2
    Search                1                     2
    Spot                  0                     7
    Swim                  4                     8
    Tumble                0                     6
    Use Magic Device      5                    19
    
    Level 1 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
    Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
    Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
    
    
    Level 2 (Paladin)
    Enhancement: Human Versatility I
    Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
    
    
    Level 3 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    
    
    Level 4 (Paladin)
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
    Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
    Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
    
    
    Level 5 (Paladin)
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
    Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
    Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
    
    
    Level 6 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
    Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
    
    
    Level 7 (Paladin)
    Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
    
    
    Level 8 (Paladin)
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
    
    
    Level 9 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
    Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II
    Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
    
    
    Level 10 (Paladin)
    Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II
    Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
    
    
    Level 11 (Paladin)
    Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
    
    
    Level 12 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV
    Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice II
    
    
    Level 13 (Paladin)
    Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
    
    
    Level 14 (Paladin)
    Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
    Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar III
    
    
    Level 15 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
    Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite III
    
    
    Level 16 (Paladin)
    Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
    
    
    Level 17 (Paladin)
    Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might III
    
    
    Level 18 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
    Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite IV
    Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice III
    
    
    Level 19 (Paladin)
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III
    
    
    Level 20 (Paladin)
    Enhancement: Paladin Weapons of Good
    Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice III
    Last edited by Thsil; 12-10-2010 at 03:30 AM.

  17. #77
    Community Member Krag's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Junts View Post
    It doesn't 'barely' beat a mineral2: its closer to a lightning2 damage wise than a mineral, and it can bypass silver+good. It makes up roughly 60% of the damage gap between mineral and lightning on trashmobs, and can apply that extra damage to bosses.

    Dual epic chaosblade is the best boss-beating weapon arrangement in the game (better than pure paladin epic sos) and additionally is the best autocrit whacking khopesh set (the higher base damage and enhancement are far better in autocrit situations than lightning strike's static damage).

    epic chaosblades are incredibly, incredibly good.
    After trying it out my paladin I have to admit that epic Chaosblades are really incredible.
    Osmand d'Medani, Stonebearer Eric, Wardreamer

  18. #78
    Community Member daniel7's Avatar
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    Question

    Any of you Paladins swinging two of these?

    http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...s/Deathnip.jpg

    Does Deathnip compete with crafted/epic khopeshes?
    Ghallanda
    Volver life 3 lvl 20 sorc - 4 Epic /// Adept life 3 lvl 2mnk/17pal /// Vindicate life 6 lvl 18rgr/1ftr/1clr - 2 Epic /// [COLOR="Red"]

  19. #79
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thsil View Post
    How much of a difference is say Falchion compared to khopeshes?
    Especially as a paladin with divine sacrifice, it very much behooves you to go TWF. Magical effects do not play nicely with THF even in the best of circumstances: a half-orc pure barbarian can get 26% magical effects on glancing blows (which is an embarrassingly small effect compared to TWF), a human paladin can only get 9%.
    Quote Originally Posted by daniel7
    Does Deathnip compete with crafted/epic khopeshes?
    Against 0% fort chaotic targets immune to vorpal, Deathnips are better than Epic Chaosblades (if you have IC: Piercing). It would be kind of silly to use Epic Chaosblades instead of lit II khopeshes in that situation, though.

  20. #80
    Community Member stille_nacht's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinerd View Post
    This is a very misleading way of putting it. While it is true that 6 * 2 = 4 * 3, we can do a simple check to establish that this does not accurately reflect the difference in damage done by examining the hypothetical case of two weapons, each with 2d4 + 0 (= 5 on average) base damage, one with the improved rapier crit characteristics and one with the improved khopesh:

    Improved "rapier":
    1: 0
    2: 5
    3: 5
    ...
    14: 5
    15: 10
    ...
    20: 10
    Total: 5 * 13 + 5 * 2 * 6 = 125

    Improved "khopesh":
    1: 0
    2: 5
    ...
    16: 5
    17: 15
    ...
    20: 15
    Total: 5 * 15 + 5 * 3 * 4 = 135

    It is not a coincidence that 135 - 125 = 5 * (4 * 2 - 6 * 1). The value (multiplier - 1) * (threat) is the relevant value when comparing in the seekerless regime, not the value (multiplier) * (threat). Scimitar/rapiers and khopeshes only see the same contribution from seeker and effects like it.A small correction here: even if we assume 100% off-hand attack rate, there would not be a 60% chance to land at least one critical hit with two scimitar/rapiers. The chance would be 1 - (1 - 30%) * (1 - 30%) or 51%. For non-Tempests, it would be 1 - (1 - 30%) * (1 - 30% * 80%) or 46.8%.
    exactly, in your situation, you have
    17- 15
    18- 15
    19- 15
    20- 15

    or

    14-10
    15-10
    16-10
    17-10
    18-10
    19-10
    20-10

    both equal 60, as i said, it is the extra range of normal attacks (1-16 instead of 1-13) that causes the increase in khopesh damage. (burst effects do do more on khopesh)
    adversity is something we face every day - for a true test, give someone power

    Quote Originally Posted by stille_nacht View Post
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