we need decrafting in shroud..

[vVAnjilaVv]

/not signed

Several reasons:

1)
To get a specific epic item that fits in a specific slot is a grind involving a bit of luck.
To get a specific GS item (of your choice) that fits in a specific slot is a grind involving a bit of luck or AH.

The way I see it is that the moment I have constructed my GS item it is similar to any other named item. Effect and character slot is locked in! When new items appear that overshadow old ones and I want to rearrange I simply grind for a new epic or GS item for the slot(s)/effects I now want to use.

2) The grind for GS is actually MUCH MUCH less (i.e., more forgiving) than grind for epics. If you don't wanna run shroud endlessly you can simply do other quests, build up cash and buy every single component except the shards and who doesn't have extra shards after playing for a while? You can only buy scrolls for epics, you need to grind for shard, seal, item. GS is per definition an easy button since the only semi-rare non-AH available item is the "shard of power" from part 1.

3) I miss the days when, except for 2-3 items in von/titan, random loot was uber. I don't mind being unlucky but feel it is boring when we can all just grind and automatically get the "best" items, which happened when Shroud came out. I don't mind less grindable/buyable GS items being available due to old ones being in banks

4) Economy - the GS respeccing is a very good way for DDO to keep the economy in check. Hmmm then again, I guess it wouldn't hurt if large scales suddenly dropped to 10% of their price so this reason is pretty weak ^^

My comments were all about respeccing outdated items. People who make mistakes crafting is a different matter. Maybe we could see what the effect will be before actually clicking YES or something

Well to tell you the truth.....DDO straying to far from mainstream popularity is what almost killed it the first time.

It's not really about what the hardcore players want, it's about what will make everyone content......and a lot of those people are gamers coming from places where this particular aspect was an option.

Or to put it more simply....I think it's a safe bet to say there are more people who DON'T like the grind than DO.

[Astraghal]

/not signed

Several reasons:

1)
To get a specific epic item that fits in a specific slot is a grind involving a bit of luck.
To get a specific GS item (of your choice) that fits in a specific slot is a grind involving a bit of luck or AH.

The way I see it is that the moment I have constructed my GS item it is similar to any other named item. Effect and character slot is locked in! When new items appear that overshadow old ones and I want to rearrange I simply grind for a new epic or GS item for the slot(s)/effects I now want to use.

2) The grind for GS is actually MUCH MUCH less (i.e., more forgiving) than grind for epics. If you don't wanna run shroud endlessly you can simply do other quests, build up cash and buy every single component except the shards and who doesn't have extra shards after playing for a while? You can only buy scrolls for epics, you need to grind for shard, seal, item. GS is per definition an easy button since the only semi-rare non-AH available item is the "shard of power" from part 1.

3) I miss the days when, except for 2-3 items in von/titan, random loot was uber. I don't mind being unlucky but feel it is boring when we can all just grind and automatically get the "best" items, which happened when Shroud came out. I don't mind less grindable/buyable GS items being available due to old ones being in banks

4) Economy - the GS respeccing is a very good way for DDO to keep the economy in check. Hmmm then again, I guess it wouldn't hurt if large scales suddenly dropped to 10% of their price so this reason is pretty weak ^^

My comments were all about respeccing outdated items. People who make mistakes crafting is a different matter. Maybe we could see what the effect will be before actually clicking YES or something

Luck doesn't exist.

You can't buy an essence of cleansing.

You support the grind.

That's your prerogative.

You can't rationalise it.

[grandeibra]

@anjila
very good point agreed. My opinion is ofc just my own. I would totally support whatever they decide to do in order for more people to enjoy the game, and very possibly what you said holds true for most players ^^

@astraghal
essences - good point
no luck - Tell that to the players who for example have run von 160 times without getting SoS
Support grind - "it is boring when we can all just grind and automatically get the "best" items" was what I said
can't rationalize it - I just did in my previous post. That you disagree with em don't change that fact

[Twerpp]

Would be cool if you could pop it into a stone of change with a blank GS and change it to another slot/weapon. SO when you TR into another race/build you can make use of it. Turbine would sell more TR's if you could do this...

[Combat_Wombat]

This is such a dumb idea and a slippery slope its unbelievable.

So what is next oh I don't want my lorriks shield I ran 20 HoX to get anymore let me turn it in and get a new 20th reward list so I can grab that +3 tome I passed up!

See how stupid that is? GS deconstruction is the same. Have a GS item you don't want/need anymore vendor it for some plat and move on. Quit crying and trying to ruin the game.

[havokiano]

is an exaggeration to say that decrafting can ruin the game.

[Astraghal]

This is such a dumb idea and a slippery slope its unbelievable.

So what is next oh I don't want my lorriks shield I ran 20 HoX to get anymore let me turn it in and get a new 20th reward list so I can grab that +3 tome I passed up!

See how stupid that is? GS deconstruction is the same. Have a GS item you don't want/need anymore vendor it for some plat and move on. Quit crying and trying to ruin the game.

That is completely irrational.

It seems to me that people who make 'easy button' and 'slippery slope' posts are those who would rather see the system remain grindy because they don't think it's fair that an alteration to the system might allow others to invest less time in getting the same gear they have.

These people support the grind.

Because the only factor involved in attaining items is time.

Luck isn't real and skill doesn't come into it.

[sephiroth1084]

There's generally, from observation, 2 reasons why people want GS deconstruction:

1. People who screwed up their recipes, or
2. People who don't use an old GS item because it's "useless"


To answer #1: Suck it up buttercup. You shouldn't have to compensated by easy buttoning one of the best bang for your buck grinds in the game, for your lack of reading comprehension. There's plenty of accurate resources out there to make sure this doesn't happen. You screwed up. Deal with it.

That's completely ridiculous! What else in DDO can be sooo punishing for such an incredibly tiny mistake? You spent months grinding the Shroud in order to craft an item, and then when you finally go to make it, you use one wrong ingredient and don't realize. If it's when making your initial greensteel blank, then you aren't completely screwed because you can trade it. If it was on tier I, you just lost 5 Vale runs (stones), several greensteel ingredients (some of which are considered rather rare) and a Shard of Power, which some people end up waiting 20 or more runs for.

If it was on tier II, you lose all of the above and then some rather unimportant ingredients, and are left feeling very frustrated.

If it was on tier III, you just lost all of the above and some incredibly expensive, difficult to acquire ingredients. If it was a dual shard, you've likely just wasted months of work.

I've made this mistake on tiers I and II, and I've made many greensteel items. Once it was because the recipe I read was incorrect. Another time was because I happened to look at the wrong line of the page I had just copied down. Does anything else in DDO require this degree of meticulous research, transcription and attention to minute detail?

IT'S A ****ING GAME!! What reason could you possibly have to justify a game screwing someone over so badly for such a minor mistake? How does saying, "Suck it up buttercup," not sound totally ludicrous to you?

[patang01]

This is such a dumb idea and a slippery slope its unbelievable.

The slippery slope argument is always used just before making a unsupported argument. Like wanting to turn in named loot for a tome. I don't mean to attack you per say, but the argument is kind of silly.

There's no slippery slope here that leads from breaking down a item (that you spent time and resources on) to wanting to turn in a item for something else.

The time was spent. My time. No one elses. The item I remake won't be more overpowered because it's governed by the same rules that created the first item. It's not even a argument about 'this was once a very powerful item until the rules changed'. It's about having spent a significant amount of time grinding for something and there are so many other things to grind for.

In the end - the item I chose to create from the mats that I break down won't change the game you play and won't make me any better than you. It's really not easier for anyone.

The argument against breaking down GS that if you put it together it's mechanically 'in game' impossible to undo it.

Last I checked so is actually fighting dragons for real (unless, no offense - your mother in law), swim in lava and make fireballs shoot out of wands.

It's a game and functionally it's a service for us gamers to continue enjoy the game and support it with our money. Make a complete deconstruct cost TP, just like a lesser or greater reincarnation does. Make a partial cost something in game; be it 5 raid tokens, 20 tokens, 20th shroud run 'essence of undoing' or whatever.

When I read some of the objections I wonder what the real drama is about? No one seems to argue against me lesser reincarnating a character. Shouldn't I have to suck it up and live with it or grind another toon up to 20th level? Would you rather suffer running with my 'gimp'? Isn't that a easy button to pay for my toon to be able to contribute to your run? So what would it do to your end game if I can deconstruct my item so I now fill a better role on your team?

So again - I wonder what the objections are about. A sense that if I deconstruct an item it somehow lessen someones ability to feel good about having done shroud 200 times and have the most green steel set up ever?

Or that we who want to be able to do it spend TP on fixing that one GS item instead of running our 200 and have a garage full off unused GS. And Turbine get our money and can spend their time on hiring more people and develope more content, instead of trying to sucker me out of my TP for +1 loot gems or angel of tears pots.

In the end none of it will impact anyones game - it might even make it a little better when someone redo their defunct items that streamlines their gear better so they can run with the big boys. In the end it's about completion and not who have the biggest stick.

That's how I feel anyways. I might be wrong. But I certainly do not feel that there are any slipper slope arguments here unless someone want half kobolds in the game; I just don't want to contemplate how that 'happened' and what half race it might lead to down the road.

[Lord_Legolas]

I would prefer GS Mat/Shard deconstruction, and am some what opposed to GS item/weapon deconstruction. I have 2 imbewed shards that I made shortly after The Shroud came online, when there wasn't much accurate info on the manufacturing process. Yes! It should come at some cost, but GS weapon/item deconstruction should come at a greater cost! We have it for DT armor, so we should have it for GS items/weapons.

[Albrecht555]

I would be happy with a middle term on this. Say trading item with another item with same properties (eg. Mineral II GA for any other weapon etc). I dont agree with getting ingredients back but this trade would allow people to find different slots for their equipment as the game is constantly changing. This is especially true for TRed chars as it opens more possibilities and we wouldnt gain anything more than we already have.


Just my 2 cents.

[Hendrik]

Still no change from Eladrins last statement;

Deconstruction is NOT on the table.

[r3dl4nce]

Still no change from Eladrins last statement;

Link please, I should have missed this post...

[Hendrik]

Link please, I should have missed this post...

Meh, tried to find it but to no avail.

Still, has not changed his mind since then.

[pharky]

i dont think its about having an easy button. while i was a noob, i made a +6 str rapier and its really pointless to keep it for anything anymore. so what am i suppose to do with it? if i can deconstruct it without even getting back any ingredients, ill be happy. but if i cant, ill just keep it my inventory and probably craft smth better next.

easy button? not really.
required button? not really.
bonus button? yes

[Crystalizer]

even if i would be quite happy to be able to deconstruct a couple of gs weapons, i seriously doubt you can imagine a solid reason why it would be possible in the ddo lore.... the base idea in crafting is to get a fusion between ingredients...


-->> what i really would like is to bind to account greensteel items/weapons, so when a gs is not useful anymore at least you can give it to your alts !!

[Chai]

This is such a dumb idea and a slippery slope its unbelievable.

So what is next oh I don't want my lorriks shield I ran 20 HoX to get anymore let me turn it in and get a new 20th reward list so I can grab that +3 tome I passed up!

See how stupid that is? GS deconstruction is the same. Have a GS item you don't want/need anymore vendor it for some plat and move on. Quit crying and trying to ruin the game.

The analogy between a dropped item and a crafted item isnt relevant. Welcome to Dungeons and Dragons. giving people more options doesnt ruin this game, it makes it better. If there is a significant cost for deconstruction, I dont see it as something people will do all the time on a whim.

What DOES ruin the game for people is when they build a toon on specific criteria and outfit it with greensteel taking 6 months to do so, Turbine makes changes to that class to the point where it doesnt even function the same, and now all of the greensteel specifically made for that build is rotting in the bank, and the player now has to grind out more NEW items just to be able to play the same role they did before the change.

As an example, I wonder how many Green Steel Scimitars, Rapiers, and Falchions are rotting in the bank right now from the barbarian crit rage days.

[dwelsh99]

The slippery slope argument is always used just before making a unsupported argument. Like wanting to turn in named loot for a tome. I don't mean to attack you per say, but the argument is kind of silly.

There's no slippery slope here that leads from breaking down a item (that you spent time and resources on) to wanting to turn in a item for something else.

The time was spent. My time. No one elses. The item I remake won't be more overpowered because it's governed by the same rules that created the first item. It's not even a argument about 'this was once a very powerful item until the rules changed'. It's about having spent a significant amount of time grinding for something and there are so many other things to grind for.

In the end - the item I chose to create from the mats that I break down won't change the game you play and won't make me any better than you. It's really not easier for anyone.

The argument against breaking down GS that if you put it together it's mechanically 'in game' impossible to undo it.

Last I checked so is actually fighting dragons for real (unless, no offense - your mother in law), swim in lava and make fireballs shoot out of wands.

It's a game and functionally it's a service for us gamers to continue enjoy the game and support it with our money. Make a complete deconstruct cost TP, just like a lesser or greater reincarnation does. Make a partial cost something in game; be it 5 raid tokens, 20 tokens, 20th shroud run 'essence of undoing' or whatever.

When I read some of the objections I wonder what the real drama is about? No one seems to argue against me lesser reincarnating a character. Shouldn't I have to suck it up and live with it or grind another toon up to 20th level? Would you rather suffer running with my 'gimp'? Isn't that a easy button to pay for my toon to be able to contribute to your run? So what would it do to your end game if I can deconstruct my item so I now fill a better role on your team?

So again - I wonder what the objections are about. A sense that if I deconstruct an item it somehow lessen someones ability to feel good about having done shroud 200 times and have the most green steel set up ever?

Or that we who want to be able to do it spend TP on fixing that one GS item instead of running our 200 and have a garage full off unused GS. And Turbine get our money and can spend their time on hiring more people and develope more content, instead of trying to sucker me out of my TP for +1 loot gems or angel of tears pots.

In the end none of it will impact anyones game - it might even make it a little better when someone redo their defunct items that streamlines their gear better so they can run with the big boys. In the end it's about completion and not who have the biggest stick.

That's how I feel anyways. I might be wrong. But I certainly do not feel that there are any slipper slope arguments here unless someone want half kobolds in the game; I just don't want to contemplate how that 'happened' and what half race it might lead to down the road.

Agree

[Chai]

even if i would be quite happy to be able to deconstruct a couple of gs weapons, i seriously doubt you can imagine a solid reason why it would be possible in the ddo lore.... the base idea in crafting is to get a fusion between ingredients...


-->> what i really would like is to bind to account greensteel items/weapons, so when a gs is not useful anymore at least you can give it to your alts !!

When artifacts are destroyed in the books many times the ground is littered with the materials used in their crafting. When the magic is undone, so too is the fusion between the items.

[Zzevel]

I agree... there are alot of people who cannot see past there own ego to realize that others might be sick of grinding the same quests over and over .. and doing shroud for the 200th time on the same character is not ENJOYABLE ... it not hard .. nothing about shroud is hard ... pugs succeed all the time .... its just a time sink ... and one that is growing old. Deconstruction while would have been pointless when shroud came out ... 2+ years later ... its needed.

Correct, some people have an outside life, others only have an ingame life and can run a quest 200 times. To them in game is life and you are just a slacker. I'd personally rather have an outside lfe and greensteel deconstruct in game for when I want to play. And thaks for the neg rep from the no lifer's ahead of time... I know its your only power as king...