PLEASE PLEASE make quarterstaffs finessable

[wiglin]

The issue with stat draining, is it will not complete the quest. It takes dps to kill the red name that has blanket immunities, so while the character who focuses in dps can not only stat drain if they choose, they can also contribute to killing the red name.

[Samiusbot]

Don't just quit. If something is important keep fighting for it. Don't take replies personalty. Make a clear points and have good data to back it up. If this change needs made keep calm and don't reply angry. Some times a change needs a champion.


I feel that one of the trade offs of making a finesse build should have perks and losses. And in this case you lose some to hit with these class of weapons. So i disagree.


I bet you can find a way to hit fairly often even with a finesse build using a staff with some prep work. (It might cost some AC while doing it.) Say switch to Fire stance, keep rage/haste/Gh running/ make a DT Destruction/ use a Arrowhead over a Bloodstone/ Visit your training dummy and other guild buffs that help your to hit with non-finesse weapons.

Try exploring options before asking for a change. And then keep your calm on.

[Drfirewater79]

The issue with stat draining, is it will not complete the quest. It takes dps to kill the red name that has blanket immunities, so while the character who focuses in dps can not only stat drain if they choose, they can also contribute to killing the red name.

But the dex build is the issue here not the dps build. something everyone on this thread is not understanding.

When you hit a mob with blanket immunities your not using a dream spitter anyway are you? NO ... we arent talking about fighting bosses .. we are talking about options for mobs.

[Robi3.0]

Thank you for proving you are not one of the ignorant and arrogant masses... the truth is there are NO valid arguments against making q-staffs finessable/light weapons ... they are all trolling it rather then actually coming up with valid arguments.

I don't really care for you insinuating that I am a troll. As I said in another post and other have brought up. You are suggesting a global change to current game mechanics at a relatively small percentage of the player population can benefit from and only while using two named weapons out of all the millions of weapons in game.

It was suggested that if this change were to happen only 5 percent of the total player population would even notice. I am sorry but spending time on anything that only 5% of the population would care about enough to even notice is not worth any dev time at all, period.

That is why this is a bad idea.

[Drfirewater79]

I feel that one of the trade offs of making a finesse build should have perks and losses. And in this case you lose some to hit with these class of weapons. So i disagree.

I bet you can find a way to hit fairly often even with a finesse build using a staff with some prep work. (It might cost some AC while doing it.) Say switch to Fire stance, keep rage/haste/Gh running/ make a DT Destruction/ use a Arrowhead over a Bloodstone/ Visit your training dummy and other guild buffs that help your to hit with non-finesse weapons.

Try exploring options before asking for a change. And then keep your calm on.

There is a trade off .. dex bulids cannot use kopheshes .. .they cannot use great swords .. they cannot use great axes .. they cannot use scimitars .. they cannot use great clubs or longswords or mauls ... the list goes on and on ...

Quarterstaffs being considered light weapons or made other wise finessable doesnt do anything negative to the game .. it doesnt offer some super big advantage that screws over all str bulids.

This is why its pointless to argue it anymore ... cause people are so freaking ignorant to the fact that its does nothing but balance out the level drainging ability to build types that can make the most of it and might actually use the weapon.

But time after time people bring up stupid arguments like there are better weapons for DPS ... F DPS ... if DPS was the only consideration then anyone who isnt playinga half orc barbarian is a freaking ****** then arent they? cause what other class is doing 500 per crit and nearly or over 100 on non crits every hit? Why play a fighter .. they have less dps .. why play a palidan they have less dps ... why play anything other then a barbarian ... its the dumbest response and its repeated over and over.

Then the comment of "the devs said it wont happen" well isnt that the whole reason people ask for stuff because the devs wont give it the light of day? They said palis wouldnt get intimidate too .. but guess what they got it ... the devs say things that get turned around all the time ... its often the reason we blast them over and over when they are proven to be hypocritical ...

Why do i no longer care to champion this? because there is no point .. the games gonna be all but dead come next spring anyway. Especially if small changes that effect no one negatively in any way shape or form ... are not even considered because of the massive ignorance of the forum community.

[Drfirewater79]

I don't really care for you insinuating that I am a troll. As I said in another post and other have brought up. You are suggesting a global change to current game mechanics at a relatively small percentage of the player population can benefit from and only while using two named weapons out of all the millions of weapons in game.

It was suggested that if this change were to happen only 5 percent of the total player population would even notice. I am sorry but spending time on anything that only 5% of the population would care about enough to even notice is not worth any dev time at all, period.

That is why this is a bad idea.

Cause 30 seconds of code change modifiying the text stating medium weapon changing to light weapon without changing any other piece of code or graphic is such a massive amount of dev time ... right ... yeah ... but they can waste tons of time adding intimidate to palidans giving them a massive advantage as intimitanks over fighters and barbs a change that effects everyone who isnt a plaidan intimitank and destroying the validity of any fighter intimitank as palidans are ment to have decent cha and are granted better saves plus pali ac auras making defender intimidate fighters useless in comparison. ... that was worth a **** ton of dev time .... but the small change to make a relitively useless weapon useful to a build type that is starved for weapons ... yeah. I totally get your point.

[Robi3.0]

Cause 30 seconds of code change modifiying the text stating medium weapon changing to light weapon without changing any other piece of code or graphic is such a massive amount of dev time ... right ... yeah ... but they can waste tons of time adding intimidate to palidans giving them a massive advantage as intimitanks over fighters and barbs a change that effects everyone who isnt a plaidan intimitank and destroying the validity of any fighter intimitank as palidans are ment to have decent cha and are granted better saves plus pali ac auras making defender intimidate fighters useless in comparison. ... that was worth a **** ton of dev time .... but the small change to make a relitively useless weapon useful to a build type that is starved for weapons ... yeah. I totally get your point.

I don't think you do, and booting up a computer to change code takes longer then 30 seconds, so I have to wonder if you know what you are talking about in regards to computer programing.

You don't even know what you actually want. You want life draining weapons that can be finessed. Trying starting a thread about that and I will gladly post in it stating that I see no reason why q-staffs have to be the only weapons that get that ability.

[wiglin]

But the dex build is the issue here not the dps build. something everyone on this thread is not understanding.

When you hit a mob with blanket immunities your not using a dream spitter anyway are you? NO ... we arent talking about fighting bosses .. we are talking about options for mobs.

What options for the mobs do you need. In epic you have dreamspitter on auto held mobs, and in non epics you can vorpal. Their are good options for dex based builds in this game, one is a rogue dual wielding rapiers, and the other a monk using handwraps in wind stance, both bring dps to the table, and can still use a dreamspitter in epic just fine.

Building for trash mobs in this game is not a good idea, as to complete a quest you have to get around the high hp red named with immunities, you do that with high dps. What good is it to build a character that can destroy the trash, but then cause the end fight to take longer, and possibly use more player resources like consumables. If ac mattered in the end game (my idea being epics and elite raids), I could understand the point for boosting that high dex. Sadly is does not and there comes a point when reflex is overkill, so why the desire to play with a finesse quarterstaff?

More options are not better if it leads to 3 rounders in the shroud.

[Drfirewater79]

I don't think you do, and booting up a computer to change code takes longer then 30 seconds, so I have to wonder if you know what you are talking about in regards to computer programing.

You don't even know what you actually want. You want life draining weapons that can be finessed. Trying starting a thread about that and I will gladly post in it stating that I see no reason why q-staffs have to be the only weapons that get that ability.

again try actually reading what i posted ... its not JUST life draining effects ... its quarterstaffs as well ...

also it take much more coding and far more "wasted time" to develop all new weapons to fit a small % as you put it of players who cannot use the weapons with those abilities in the game now.

People in this very thread early on mentioned there are even feat options to allow people to use wisdom rather then str for the hit modifier in DnD pnp .... i also stated this would be a perfect work around requires no weapon changing at all.

As for my programing knowledge ... i have no clue what programing they use .. but i did do alot of work with algorithms in school dealing with more basic programing ..

i know when you want coding to go smoothly you make many small codes rather then long drawn out ones ... I know if they have a code for a specific weapon that all the sub codes can be taken from other weapons and removed from said weapon or added to said weapon without actually doing anything major to change it at all.

If the door is read and you want it to be black .. you change the line of code for colour.

if the weapon is heavy but you want it to act as if its light .. you change the code that determines its to hit modifier as str only ... and add the code from any other weapon that is light in its place so that both str modifier and dex modifier with finesse feat are checked rather then just str.

its not rocket science .. and i am pretty sure all programing runs on the same basic principles .. only thing that changes is the language.

to hit with quarterstaffs sample basic code...

if bob is holding quarterstaff then
-- if bob is swinging at target then
---- roll 1d20 and add bab = attack modifier then
---- check feats for finesse if finesse is there then
---------check str and dex to find highest value
----------- if str > dex then add str modifier to attack modifer = attack modifier else
-----------add dex modifier to attack modifer = attack modifer
-- If attack modifier > AC then roll damage code
end string

i mean its not detailed i am at work not gonna write it with serious detail in mind .. but the change means adding a few lines of code that they can steal from nearly every other light weapon and just apply it to quarterstaffs easily.

Again... there are not many options for monks specifically ... so just saying make more life draining light weapons does not cut it .... kamas are exotic so really only handwraps would even qualifiy as a reasonable option outside of quarterstaffs and handwraps are pretty exclusive to monks ... which makes it pointless for other classes that are finesse and effect a smaller group.

Making quarterstaffs finessable gives a small boost to more people and removes the need to focus more time then is needed to fix a small issue with weapon balance creating more options for non heavy DPS Dex Builds.

[Tobril]

if bob is holding quarterstaff then
-- if bob is swinging at target then
---- roll 1d20 and add bab = attack modifier then
---- check feats for finesse if finesse is there then
---------check str and dex to find highest value
----------- if str > dex then add str modifier to attack modifer = attack modifier else
-----------add dex modifier to attack modifer = attack modifer
-- If attack modifier > AC then roll damage code
end string

You would probably want to change attack bonus on the weapon switch
to avoid having to make that check each swing.



Also, I LR'd my dex monk to mostly muscles and am loving it. The DPS
difference in epics and elsewhere is phenomenal.

Lack of appreciable AC hasn’t been an issue in epics or elite amrath.

The best part of having a strength monk is that she is able to open her
own pickle jars without having to have her barbarian friend help.

[thekamurai]

If the devs just re-code q-staffs to be "light" weapons, they are instantly finessable, and 95% of players wouldn't notice. The other 5% would be happy.

Again, arguments AGAINST THIS?

The problem with that implementation would be that light weapons (in pnp) offer no additional benefit when wielded in two hands, and I believe that rule has been carried over.

I think (no math to confirm) that making it a light weapon would translate to a massive loss in dps for STR based staff users. I know I would lose a hell of a lot of dps if that change were to be made, heck I'd probably re-roll the toon if they did that.

Making q-staffs light would just be a terrible idea, IMO. A staff is clearly a two-handed weapon, light weapons are defined by the fact that they are easier to wield in the off-hand than a one-handed weapon and that they can be used while grappling. You'll notice that light weapons tend to be small is size as well, which a q-staff is not.

[drac317]

please,please,please, stop with this rediculous rant you darth maul wannabe.

if they are going to change staffs in anyway they should conform to 3.5 standards and make them double weapons useable with two weapon fighting per the PHB.

[Samiusbot]

The best part of having a strength monk is that she is able to open her own pickle jars without having to have her barbarian friend help.

We all know how much your monk loves the pickle.

[drac317]

We all know how much your monk loves the pickle.

lmao,thats funny,i dont care who you are

[Tobril]

We all know how much your monk loves the pickle.

And how! nom nom nom