PLEASE PLEASE make quarterstaffs finessable

[Drfirewater79]

I dont really know why anyone but a monk or a caster would use quarterstaffs ... they are lower damage then handwraps on a monk and there are better melee weapons for battle casters too .. so even they dont use them frequently outside of possibly GS.

Reason i feel not many people use quarterstaffs is because they are str based weapon ... so if you have no str then you cannot use them and if you have high str then there are a ton of better options both from the base damage and in the increased crit range aspects.

But when you see stuff like this

Got this as end reward of series

Normal tuning fork quarterstaff skin

And you have to say to yourself ... why the hell is there another dreamspitter? not only is it just like dreamspitter but its str based weapon again.

I would like to put forth a suggestion that with 1 level of monk you can use quarterstaffs as a finessable weapon. Since FLAVOR wise it fits the monk better then any other class and most battle wizards and sorcs are taking at least two levels of monk for evasion and feats .. .and even more are taking 3 levels for the light fist attack.

There is no reason to not make quarterstaffs finessable .. and its a problem that has gone on for far to long with no intelligent reason not to fix. I mean you guys gave palidans intimidate .. and that is far more gamebreaking then allowing dex monks to use quarterstaffs.

[Dragonhyde]

What is the staff from titan? I remember it being different from other staffs and was supposed to be sickle i think but can't remember fully

[LunaCee]

Personally... they have a few special DEX based q-staff already. Good enough I'd say.

I'd take Intuitive Strike being implemented before they spend time doing something like making all quarter staffs finesse weapons.

Intuitive Strike of course being the feat that allows people to use their wisdom modifier for the attack bonus of simple weapons instead of strength if wisdom is higher. This would allow WIS Monks, many Clerics, DC based Favored Souls, and Druids when implemented to have a much better chance of hitting things with certain weapons.

[Mr_Tank]

What is the staff from titan? I remember it being different from other staffs and was supposed to be sickle i think but can't remember fully

[Hobbelin]

My monkrobat uses q-staves and his strength is at 28 as a halfling. Granted, my dex is at 29 but that's mostly for AC and reflex reasons. I just posted here to tell you that there are more than monks that use q-staves.

PS: Acrobats are way better than monks at using q-staves.

[Mr_Tank]

PS: Acrobats are way better than monks at using q-staves.

and this

[Drakos]

Just get yourself a Staff of Nat Gann. It used Dex for both Attack and Damage.

[Zhyriel]

Just get yourself a Staff of Nat Gann. It used Dex for both Attack and Damage.

I use staves almost exclusively on my Thief-acrobat, balanced str/dex, i do have a couple Kama's for stuff that the staves cant damage well and a shuriken for ranged, but 95% of the time i just switch staves. I love that staff by the way......

[DrNuegebauer]

Just a logical interlude into this thread:

(i)Quarterstaves are a 2HF weapon. If you take the 2HF line, then you get the extra % damage on your glancing blows.
You cannot take the 2WF line to increase your attack speed with them.

(ii)2HF weapons get "strength and a half" as their damage bonus.

(iii)Monks are not, by definition, dex based characters, they gain wisdom as their enhancement 'bump'.

Let's piece this together:

If Staves were made a finesse weapon, it would be completely pointless since they do just the 1 hit, and the supposed bonus damage from STR wouldn't be capitalized on!
To say monks are 'dex based' is not right - a healthy investment in dex to make the most of the evasion/ 2WF with fists is smart!

[locus]

I'm not sure why a caster would have high dex any more than they would have high str (and likely more casters have higher str than dex, esp divine ones (right?)), so this suggestion doesn't seem to be for casters at all. Monks, sure they might have a higher dex, but I'd assume they'd have a decent strength as well (not having played one). Rogues are the real target with this suggestion, but they too should have a decent strength, especially if they're an acrobat specific build (which, if they're not, they'd be slightly gimpy being otherwise). Interesting idea, and I see no harm in it, but I also don't see a huge use, and quarterstaffs aren't exactly light weapons.

[Jay203]

he just wants to use it on his dex monk >_>

[Natashaelle]

There is no reason why quarterstaves should be finesse weapons, although the occasional especially enchanted one certainly could be.

These weapons are often misrepresented as long sticks of wood -- I have one of these myself, it's a big walking stick. Used as a weapon, it would probably be more like a 2-handed rod than a quarterstaff... (good for scaring stray dogs away during hiking though )

Quarterstaves are metal-shod, and are actually often hollow, with a rod of metal filling the cavity, soaked and otherwise formed so that the wood grips round this metal core, hardened, tipped with metal, and in D&D worlds, spikes, enchanted, and etc.

They are heavy weapons, not daggers, kamas, and whatnot.

Having said that, a lighter weapon which were in fact just a big stick, but NOT a quarterstaff, could potentially be introduced into the game... but then again, possibly those exceptional finessable q-staves may be exactly that

Personally I'd rule that a finessable staff would not provide extra effective strength as the other 2-handed weapons, and would have lower damage base than a quarterstaff, simply by virtue of being light weaponry unlike other 2-handed weapons.

[FuzzyDuck81]

Could introduce "quarterstaff finesse" as a special stand-alone selectable feat to grant DEX modifer to attack with staves (also available on monk & fighter bonus feat lists), which would be granted for free with the 1st tier of the Acrobat PrE (in much the same way that shortswords become centered for ninjas) - it'd be a pretty niche feat but useful for those that want to specialise in it.

[AMDarkwolf]

A quarterstaff is a double weapon. You can fight with it as if fighting with two weapons, but if you do, you incur all the normal attack penalties associated with fighting with two weapons, just as if you were using a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. A creature wielding a quarterstaff in one hand can’t use it as a double weapon—only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round.


http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Quarterstaff

So why not do both? Its a simple weapon, the D&D ruleset allows them to be used as TWF classed weapons, and most of them are 'light' enough to be finessable.

Makes perfect sense, since I don't visualize someone swinging a bat, I imagine more a guy using agility and finesse to use both ends of the staff to land blows.

Any arguments against this just make me realize how many ppl are the 'NUUUUU CHAAAAAANGE, IT'S GUNNA HUUUURT MEEEH' type. :P

[Doxmaster]

This thread seems to have done something wierd. I'll make a note to actually read through it carefully and dissect it thoroughly before posting a full response; I'll be back in a day or two when I notice the postit note.

[dunklezhan]

A quarterstaff is a double weapon. You can fight with it as if fighting with two weapons, but if you do, you incur all the normal attack penalties associated with fighting with two weapons, just as if you were using a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. A creature wielding a quarterstaff in one hand can’t use it as a double weapon—only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round.


http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Quarterstaff

So why not do both? Its a simple weapon, the D&D ruleset allows them to be used as TWF classed weapons, and most of them are 'light' enough to be finessable.

Makes perfect sense, since I don't visualize someone swinging a bat, I imagine more a guy using agility and finesse to use both ends of the staff to land blows.

Any arguments against this just make me realize how many ppl are the 'NUUUUU CHAAAAAANGE, IT'S GUNNA HUUUURT MEEEH' type. :P

I kind of agree, though not based on 3.5 ruleset. A quarterstaff is both a normal 2h weapon and a finessible TWF weapon. My evidence:

Robin Hood vs Little John.

That's it. That's all the evidence I need. One is a hulking giant undefeated in QStaff combat because, frankly, he just powers through his opponent. The other uses speed and agility to finally not beat the hulking giant, but fight him to a standstill. And Robin used a staff that Little John gave him. Essentially then Robin wasn't using a particularly special 'light staff'.

A better example of THF vs TWF using the same weapon I cannot think of.

Its true that in some variations of the story Robin uses his longbow as a stave - which is it known archers did. However since Robin's bow was a warbow, if you go see what one of these longbows actually looks like you'll see its hardly a flimsy piece of wood as is often depicted, its thicker than a broom handle and as tall as a man - its at least as heavy as a sword (which is a lot heavier than you think if you've never held one).

http://www.thelongbowshop.com/shop/s...ows/p_200.html
http://www.englishwarbowsociety.com/warbow.html

Now... how on earth the game is supposed to know whether to use a TWF or THF style on a given toon with a given staff I have no idea. I'm just saying that in reality a QStaff can be used in either heavy or 'dextrous' combat and still be very effective and its less a function of the weapon weight as it is the style of user - although if that THF style user actually lands a hit on the dex based TWF user, that TWF user is in for a world of hurt...

Edit:
Totally, totally off topic: While I was looking up the bow links above, I came across this:
http://sites.google.com/site/delsbow...ating-crossbow
which I just think is awesome and comes with the following quote in the page:
"It is a delight to shoot with a remarkably light action considering the punch that my crossbow packs. I enjoy showing it to people who have never seen such a thing. They always enjoy loosing a stream of bolts into the air with six or so being airborne before the first lands!"

Y'hear that turbine? six or seven bolts airborne!

[Drfirewater79]

Personally... they have a few special DEX based q-staff already. Good enough I'd say.

I'd take Intuitive Strike being implemented before they spend time doing something like making all quarter staffs finesse weapons.

Intuitive Strike of course being the feat that allows people to use their wisdom modifier for the attack bonus of simple weapons instead of strength if wisdom is higher. This would allow WIS Monks, many Clerics, DC based Favored Souls, and Druids when implemented to have a much better chance of hitting things with certain weapons.

The problem with adding another feat to the monks is that we are already packed for feats ... How could you possibly give up another feat spot on a monk especially a dex based one ...
However i guess its better then not being able to use most of the quarterstaffs in the game. and i guess a monk could go full wis and take that feat instead of weapon finesse..... oh .. that would be cool i guess ... ok changed my mind ... i like the idea .. Make it so ...

[Drfirewater79]

and as a sickle its not useable by monks as a ki weapon.

[Drfirewater79]

Just get yourself a Staff of Nat Gann. It used Dex for both Attack and Damage.

And its also the most useless piece of timber in the game ... its not good for a lvl 20 monk to use ... but the dreamspitter and the new staff are both weapons one could use in epic missions .... this is the whole reason for my post ....

I dont want to use a **** q-staff ... and i think its stupid to keep putting out the same q-staff over and over and making both not useable by dex monks ...

[Drfirewater79]

If Staves were made a finesse weapon, it would be completely pointless since they do just the 1 hit, and the supposed bonus damage from STR wouldn't be capitalized on!
To say monks are 'dex based' is not right - a healthy investment in dex to make the most of the evasion/ 2WF with fists is smart!

you obviously dont do epics ... or are completely blind to the fact that the dreamspitter today is the single most used weapon in epics ... and a dex based monk ... cannot use it on mobs unless they are already stunned or held. Now they add another weapon which fits perfect with the theme of an alternate to dreamspitter ... however nope.

I never said all monks are dex based ... but many are ... the kinds of monks that rely on stat damaging rather then DPS .. cause lets be honest here if your a full monk and your using q-staff for DPS then your a freaking moron ... handwraps do twice the damage.

But for a DEX monk ... where dps is not top end anyway ... a weapon that does vampirism AND neg levels is exactly the type of weapon we need for end game. As i said it makes no sense to not have q-staffs be a dex weapon ... no one else can use them effectively .. there are many many better weapons for str users ... only people who need most of these weapons are classes and bulids that are not dps focused.

I dont even care if weapon damage is still str based ... so long as to hit worked directly with finesse feat.