Ammo bonuses should stack with bows

[Fnordian]

Actually, most people that argue against it, do it because it would be a further departure from the rules that the game is supposed to be based on, not some "status quo".

I'm not so sure that's the reason most people argue against it although I could be wrong. The existing changes between DnD and DDO are quite major compared to this little suggestion, so it's a pretty insignificant departure by comparison, and would still be internally consistent with the same stacking logic used in both games (if ammo was simply changed into a separate type of bonus). Anyway, "status quo" just means the way things currently are.

[Antheal]

Yes, this is the way it has been generally defined in DDO, and I'm not suggesting that bonuses of the same type should stack. I'm actually suggesting that ammo be defined as a separate type of bonus from bows. (Okay, I hadn't put that into writing previously, but that's what I was thinking.) This would be perfectly consistent with the way other bonuses work as there are many types of bonuses to the same thing in DDO, but they're defined as different types. You give the example of armor bonuses--there's regular AC, natural AC, deflection AC, dodge AC, shield AC, size AC, sacred AC, luck AC, insight AC, and misc. AC. All of them add to AC but they've all been defined as different so they stack.

Actually, come to think of it, most dodge AC bonuses DO stack, so already there's at least one exception to the stacking rule. But the point is, it would be just as logical as the way it is now to have an "ammo bonus" that's defined as a separate type of bonus from the "bow" bonus. It makes just as much internal sense.

/signed and +1.

[Fnordian]

To be honest, I'd rather they fix the other problem, that of being handed better than +1 items just for getting though the tutorial. Make magic rare again, and you return ammunition to one of its niches. Enchanted ammo gets found typically before enchanted weapons, making it useful in tough fights.

An interesting point but one that seems to run counter to the way DDO has been set up. Back in the day (first edition AD&D and even earlier), I recall how magic items were supposed to made available relatively sparingly and we ended up accumulating them at a much faster rate than the rules suggested. Even so, compared to their availability in DDO, our campaign looks exceedingly frugal!

The whole DDO economy, quest difficulties, and much of the gaming experience once you hit level 20 is based on the wide availability of magic items. I certainly don't recall playing in any DnD games with wand vendors in the local marketplace, never mind pawn shops and an auction house chock full of the things.

As far as being handed better than +1 items from the tutorial, at least you only get to select one such item...and it's not a lot better than +1. But you do have a point.

The other niche, is still present. Its cheaper to lug around a wide range of ammunition for varying foes than a wide range of launchers for the same.[/QUOTE]

Is it really cheaper in the long run? It takes up less inventory space, for sure, and that's priceless, but since you use up the ammo, over the long run, the actual monetary expense is probably higher, unless it's for types of foes you only encounter very rarely.

[Fnordian]

[COLOR="Plum"]
The arrows at other vendors are nothing more akin to a +1 sword from the same type vendors... cannot imagine anyone using either... yet you wish to poise some reason why they may? What about the +1 short sword from the same shop care to place some meaning behind that?

The +1 swords found in quests are actually useful for starting characters, at least for a little while and swords can break if you run into slimes, rust monsters, etc. But the sheer quantity of +1 generic ammo (whether from quests or collectors) is just incredible when it's so worthless..but doesn't have to be if a minor mechanics change were made to the game. (Okay, I say minor, but whether or not it's minor or major in coding terms and a million related issues, I really can't say.)

I understand your intent but just comes down to - changing the rule of DnD in this case - for simply putting some kind of meaning to some mundane ammo (when there are a ton of mudane items in game because this is a HIGH magic campaign) is just not feasible.

Granted, there are a lot of mundane items in the game. But this is, in my opinion, a case of a mechanic that's almost guaranteed, in the context of this game (being high magic and all), to make this type of item virtually worthless. If the arrows given out were all normal arrows, or special arrows, fine, but why have +1 and +2 bonuses on them when you can pretty much guarantee they'll never make the slightest bit of difference? It just seems like a huge waste when it *could* be made into something useful.

[Ranmaru2]

So you're proposing that I could get my hands on a RR +5 X of Greater Y Bane Bow and then use +5 Arcane Archer arrows or +5 Z arrows to make a weapon a +14 weapon against whatever mob I want to hit?

Are you going to complain if this change went through that they'd have to, thus, increase the AC of mobs as a result of this change? That's the only way you could balance for a bunch of people running around with +14 weapons with slaying arrows, or give every mob in the game Deflect Arrow.

[Antheal]

So you're proposing that I could get my hands on a RR +5 X of Greater Y Bane Bow and then use +5 Arcane Archer arrows or +5 Z arrows to make a weapon a +14 weapon against whatever mob I want to hit?

Are you going to complain if this change went through that they'd have to, thus, increase the AC of mobs as a result of this change? That's the only way you could balance for a bunch of people running around with +14 weapons with slaying arrows, or give every mob in the game Deflect Arrow.

Yes, because a simple +5 to hit and damage on top of what you'd already have now, would be completely gamebreaking for Ranged gimpbat. Did I say gimpbat? I meant combat.

[Ranmaru2]

Yes, because a simple +5 to hit and damage on top of what you'd already have now, would be completely gamebreaking for Ranged gimpbat. Did I say gimpbat? I meant combat.

I suppose all those AAs soloing epics don't mean a thing eh?

This doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement in ranged, but its certainly not a PoS anymore for Bow users.

Crossbow users are still shafted, hard.

[danielost]

perhaps stack to hit. but no bonus to damage, after all it is just a pointy stick.

[katana_one]

But the sheer quantity of +1 generic ammo (whether from quests or collectors) is just incredible when it's so worthless..

+1 generic ammo isn't worthless: I sell mine to vendors and use the money to buy 2 or 3 times as many normal arrows. I do this with all generic ammo that isn't greater than my bow's to-hit bonus.

[Ganolyn]

Until they do something to improve access to stored ammo, all this is just pointless. You'll never have time to get at it unless you solo or have a very patient group (unlesss you want to waste 50% or more backpack space to put them on hotbar).

[Fnordian]

So you're proposing that I could get my hands on a RR +5 X of Greater Y Bane Bow and then use +5 Arcane Archer arrows or +5 Z arrows to make a weapon a +14 weapon against whatever mob I want to hit?

Are you going to complain if this change went through that they'd have to, thus, increase the AC of mobs as a result of this change? That's the only way you could balance for a bunch of people running around with +14 weapons with slaying arrows, or give every mob in the game Deflect Arrow.

From what I've experienced when fighting with and without various bonuses, the extra +5 would certainly be helpful and you'd get extra kills, but it really wouldn't result in a total massacre compared to without the +5 bonus.

However, I also said I wasn't opposed to a maximum total cap on the bonus if necessary.

[Fnordian]

Until they do something to improve access to stored ammo, all this is just pointless. You'll never have time to get at it unless you solo or have a very patient group (unlesss you want to waste 50% or more backpack space to put them on hotbar).

You have a good point there...rendering this no longer "pointless"..

[Fnordian]

perhaps stack to hit. but no bonus to damage, after all it is just a pointy stick.

Perhaps. Many a battle has been won with a sufficient number of sufficiently pointy sticks.

[Fnordian]

+1 generic ammo isn't worthless: I sell mine to vendors and use the money to buy 2 or 3 times as many normal arrows. I do this with all generic ammo that isn't greater than my bow's to-hit bonus.

You're right. It hadn't occurred to me to stop thinking of them as +1 arrows or +1 bolts when I really should have been thinking of them as magical arrow-shaped money tokens.