The Great Armor Debate

[Sirslapemsack]

Oh i never said they would or even thought they would go back. Thing is, do it right the first time. Not to much to ask imo. Just comes down to $$$$ though. Whichever method is gonna pad their pockets more is the method that shall be used.

[FluffyCalico]

And I think it's one of the ugliest.

.

I hate the look of DT also. But I do like the look of Bloodplate.
My favorite look though is the docent of quickening with admanatine plate body...too bad you would have to waste a feat to have this look.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I'd like to dress my Bard in leather armor instead of Robes, but it's stupid to do so. Slow switching time, spell failure on certain UMD'd scrolls, for a meaningless boost to AC.

That's specifically what they shouldn't allow.

I'm fine with the current system, fine with a slotting system, but none of the appearances either way should allow you to change the look to a different armor type.

[FluffyCalico]

That's specifically what they shouldn't allow.

I'm fine with the current system, fine with a slotting system, but none of the appearances either way should allow you to change the look to a different armor type.

Why exactly should WF have to burn a feat slot to get varying looks in their armor that all other races can get without using a feat? They must choose a useless plating feat to get different looks.

[Monroid]

Why exactly should WF have to burn a feat slot to get varying looks in their armor that all other races can get without using a feat? They must choose a useless plating feat to get different looks.

I've seen WFs with docents ressembling rogue leather armors, robes, spiked shoulderpads and some weird shell plate armor.

If the *real* customization system ever gets implanted, WFs will easily get to chose from any kind of Docent

(If that's what you mean, I don't know anything about that feat :P)

[FluffyCalico]

(If that's what you mean, I don't know anything about that feat :P)

The looks are based on the type of armor...heavy or medium or light and for wf their body style or lack of body style feat determins this not the actual docent. So if they want anything but the unarmored style from the docent they must choose a plating even though for 99% of characters the only benifit from a plating feat is cosmetic. They also would need to switch out this feat over and over when trying on skins to see what they would look like with each feat instead of getting just a 50K plat armor off the ah of each type to toss the skin on.

[donfilibuster]

The most important thing about cosmetic armour is that I should be able to go into a tavern and pick up every chick in there due entirely to my outfit.

this

[dkyle]

That's specifically what they shouldn't allow.

I'm fine with the current system, fine with a slotting system, but none of the appearances either way should allow you to change the look to a different armor type.

Why? What skin is it off your back if I get to have my characters look the way I want?

[BLU3_FR0G]

I think it would be cool if we could dye the new armour kits blue. But oh wait, that would be giveing players the armour dye that they want..., nevermind forget I said anything. :P

[Tharlak]

The most important thing about cosmetic armour is that I should be able to go into a tavern and pick up every chick in there due entirely to my outfit.

This.

[Khanyth]

I think you misunderstand. I'll give you an example. My Bard wears Robes and Outfits because it is mechanically advantageous to do so. I think it looks goofy on her. I'd prefer her to wear leather armor for the appearance. No amount of repainting her Robes and Outfits is going to make her look the way I want.

No... I understand completely. If you have issues that leather armour sucks but robes are better, so you wear robes instead, that is a seperate issue. This is a debate about "customization" existing armour not "masking" armour from one type to another

Right, I want to allow arbitrary armor cosmetics with arbitrary armor mechanics. The ability to use an armors' cosmetics, without its gimpness.

Again.... not customizing, but masking. If you have an issue with armour gimpness, start a new thread.

I fully understand the principle. Well enough to know that it would take a lot of work for the devs. Whereas a simple "make my armor look like this" slot, in addition to the existing armor slot, would be trivial in comparison.

And you'd still be wrong. We have a character creator as a template to use. Really.... unless a dev posts otherwise, I fail to see how it would be any easier than what already exists

I'd love to see what you propose in the game. While they work on that, I'd like to see the easy to implement cosmetic armor slot.

Seems like they're going a different route.

Why shouldn't my customized armor look like existing armor if that's what I want? I've got a perfect-looking set of leather armor for my Bard. Unfortunately, not only is it inherently bad because its leather, it's just a plain +3.

So why can't my +5 GS Tier II GAxe look like a thin stick if that's what I want? Why can't my DT armour look like a happy face t-shirt if that's what I want? Why can't I get exact what I want?

Because you can't always get what you want? Just think of the potential abuses if everyone got what they want because of the logic "if that's what I want".

Huh? If someone has an "epic robe of awesomeness" I doubt they'd choose to cover it up with a starter rag. Not sure what point you're trying to make here.

Just like you'd doubt that people would run a naked shroud? Or an All barb with Clubs of the Holy Flame shroud run?

People do silly things. Every TR would bank their starter rags and then once they hit level 20, wear the starter rags as the mask that you so doubt people would.

Basically, do you object to the cosmetic armor slot idea because it doesn't go far enough towards customized armor, or because you don't think we should be able to wear robes while looking like we're wearing full plate?

Both. But more #1 than #2.

[hityawithastick]

They put in the man hrs already they are NOT scraping it for a totally different method. Lamma is not about hey dev go back and start from scratch its about working with them on fine details and bugs.

No, we're not asking them to 'scrape' it, we're asking them to add something else. The existing cosmetics would work as intended even with a cosmetic slot system, mesh toggle system, or dye system, by giving us access to a totally new armor skin. ^^

[MrkGrismer]

People do silly things. Every TR would bank their starter rags and then once they hit level 20, wear the starter rags as the mask that you so doubt people would.

I already wish I had saved those just for tooling about in the public areas. Grrr...

[dkyle]

No... I understand completely. If you have issues that leather armour sucks but robes are better, so you wear robes instead, that is a seperate issue. This is a debate about "customization" existing armour not "masking" armour from one type to another

Again.... not customizing, but masking. If you have an issue with armour gimpness, start a new thread.

It's about armor cosmetics. I want the cosmetic properties of leather armor with the mechanical properties of a robe or outfit. This is entirely on topic. The point of the thread is how to discuss how we'd like to have the appearance we want. Whether it's "customizing" armor, or displaying a different armor skin in its place, is irrelevant. Both are suggestions for improving armor cosmetics.

And you'd still be wrong. We have a character creator as a template to use. Really.... unless a dev posts otherwise, I fail to see how it would be any easier than what already exists

Then you fail at understanding how programs work. For one, my understanding is that you want to modify the armor you have. There's a big difference between a static mesh/texture (what we have now), and a customizable one. They'd have to augment every existing armor skin to allow it to be customizable.

Even if it's just new, specially-designed armor skins that can be customized, there would be extensive work required to make a character appearance creator work as an armor creator instead.

On the other hand, "show this skin instead of that one" would be trivial to implement.

Seems like they're going a different route.

One that's about as close to what I want as it is to what you want.

So why can't my +5 GS Tier II GAxe look like a thin stick if that's what I want?

Perhaps you should be able to make your GAxe look like a Quarterstaff. But I'd say the difference between armor and weapons is that:

1) armor is much more significant for appearance.

2) weapons are much more important mechanically.

A Great Axe is very different from a Quarterstaff in mechanics. Leather armor or even Outfits aren't really that different than Plate Armor. Plate armor gets an AC bonus few care about, and a few mostly irrelevant penalties.

The crux of it is, armor's mechanics rarely display themselves visibly, whereas weapons do.

A Rogue or a Monk looking like they're in Full plate might be a bit silly, but if you see a Fighter in Full Plate swinging Khopeshes at Harry, are you going to think that's silly because he might actually be wearing robes? As silly as if that Fighter was swinging Muchbanes, where you'd pretty much know that he's actually swinging something else?

Basically the problem I have is that the classic fantasy archetype of a swordsman in plate armor is not well supported by DDO's mechanics. If we can just allow the appearance of the plate armor, with the mechanics of robes or outfits, we'd at least solve that problem in terms of appearance.

Why can't my DT armour look like a happy face t-shirt if that's what I want? Why can't I get exact what I want?

Because a happy face t-shirt would break the aesthetics of the setting, and would be an appearance not currently available. Whereas all I want is an appearance I could already have, if I were willing to gimp my character.

Because you can't always get what you want? So you get what you need.

I'd hardly call any cosmetics stuff a "need". And when what I want is so simple, I'd like to see a good reason why my "want" is any less valid than your "want".

Just like you'd doubt that people would run a naked shroud? Or an All barb with Clubs of the Holy Flame shroud run?

I don't doubt either of those things happen. But those runs are about the challenge, not just the appearance. I doubt most would choose to be silly-looking intentionally, all the time. How many naked characters do you see running around public instances? If people really had a burning desire to always play characters in their underwear, wouldn't we see them already?

People do silly things. Every TR would bank their starter rags and then once they hit level 20, wear the starter rags as the mask that you so doubt people would.

I can say, as a person with two TRs, I would not do this.

And I suppose everyone will be coloring their armor puke green and hot pink to be silly under your proposed system?

I'm sure everyone will be wearing those ridiculous bikini full plates once U8 goes live?

There will always be opportunities to look silly. I doubt that everyone wants to look silly at all times, or that my proposal is any more likely to encourage looking silly than your proposal or the system Turbine is currently developing.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Why exactly should WF have to burn a feat slot to get varying looks in their armor that all other races can get without using a feat? They must choose a useless plating feat to get different looks.

For WF I'm more flexible, there is no reason a WF with composite plate couldn't add spikes too, for example.

Why? What skin is it off your back if I get to have my characters look the way I want?

You want to wear full plate, you should look like you are in full plate. You want to wear robes, it should at least look like clothing, not full plate. Want the advantage, get the look that goes with it.

[dkyle]

Want the advantage, get the look that goes with it.

By the same token, if someone wants to wear a Elocators Habiliment, or an Epic Quorforged Docent of Battle, shouldn't they be saddled with their ugly appearance?

I just don't see a good reason to tie armor appearance and mechanics together.

[Ziindarax]

Although I do not have Lamma-land, I would like to chip in that being able to dye to armor/clothes/robes would make things more interesting. If you can change the color of airships and their rings, why not armor/clothes/robes as well?

[Khanyth]

I just don't see a good reason to tie armor appearance and mechanics together.

Because the suggestions that you are making are just too radical to be implemented without reason. I'm sure the devs and game designers think that arcanes shouldn't look like they're wearing half a mountain's worth of metal armour and paladins shouldn't run around like they look like a mummy.

The game has different armour kinds and armour restrictions for classes for a reason.

The logic and rationelle of "it should be how I want it because that's the way I want it" is not, and should not, be considered. Give an actual, non-subjective reason.

If the whole reason why you want your robes armour to look like your leather armour is because the leather armour doesn't have the stats that you want it to have, then again: start a new thread about how there's no good leather armour out there.

Anyways, I'm getting kinda done with this subject.........

[Monroid]

Then you fail at understanding how programs work. For one, my understanding is that you want to modify the armor you have. There's a big difference between a static mesh/texture (what we have now), and a customizable one. They'd have to augment every existing armor skin to allow it to be customizable.

Even if it's just new, specially-designed armor skins that can be customized, there would be extensive work required to make a character appearance creator work as an armor creator instead.

On the other hand, "show this skin instead of that one" would be trivial to implement.

There was this guys that posted that armour parts are already coded separately to display random patterns as they drop, just like the "Random" button you have in the character creation page

Creating a program to get the codes of the patterns together and set them as you want them to be could be done, as the guy said, in 2 hours by some sort of rodent or something...

I just can't find the quote...

[Joab_Watts]

To those who oppose the idea of someone wearing robes but looking like full plate, I pose the question that has been asked many times (but never answered as far as I know):

How will it affect YOUR gameplay if I am wearing robes but look like I'm wearing full plate?