The new age of gimps

[Elation]

So when do you have to be min lvl 18 to complete shroud or even be allowed in a shroud group. Lol things have gotten so sad and the players are that bad that you can no longer do shroud with charactors of the appropriate lvl for the quest range. Does anyone remember when you had to be a decent player and by the time you were lvl 13 you where flagged for shroud and running it?

The new world of must be over powered to run a quest is pathetic and sad!

[tripwire11]

i think its more they want to have a very fast ingredient farm with as small chance as possible for a it to take longer then necessary, then it is that they suck.

But your right, it is irritating that nobody runs it at level... good xp.

[sweez]

Just out of curiosity, why do some players refer to running Shrouds, Hounds and VoDs "level appropriate" when it comes to level 13-15 toons? Shroud is a level 17 quest on norm, the other two are 18... so wouldn't "level appropriate" toons be 17-18?

Not saying you can't do it at whichever level you feel comfortable doing it, if your build, gear and game knowledge are solid; not saying people didn't complete them when level cap was [insert whichever level cap here] - just wondering if the quests as such were lower level some time ago or if most people just have a different perception of what "level appropriate" means than me.

[Purgatory]

Make your own group stop itching about how others run theres

[ZeroTakenaka]

I heard that when mod 9 came out. Harry got a new spell 'Meteor Swarm' Maybe that's why it's harder?

[DasLurch]

There's sooo much XP left over from Orchard, Vale, GH and such that alot of players are already lv 17-18 before they get more than 1 run in on that quest anymore. Players on TR's are grinding XP like mad more often than not, so they don't usually like to stop long enough to form a raid very often. I'm not seeing where the indignation is coming from. Can people run this on 15-17's? Sure. Why don't they? There's not alot of them around.

[Fattiest]

Just out of curiosity, why do some players refer to running Shrouds, Hounds and VoDs "level appropriate" when it comes to level 13-15 toons? Shroud is a level 17 quest on norm, the other two are 18... so wouldn't "level appropriate" toons be 17-18?

Not saying you can't do it at whichever level you feel comfortable doing it, if your build, gear and game knowledge are solid; not saying people didn't complete them when level cap was [insert whichever level cap here] - just wondering if the quests as such were lower level some time ago or if most people just have a different perception of what "level appropriate" means than me.

For the ones of us who have been around for a while, we were running shroud at lev 14's & 16's on Normal-Elite when the cap was 16....... some people think this is impossible now,,,,, for most pugs it probably is with the quality of players we have now since F2P.......I have ran with more than a few TR's that have no idea how this game works.

[Thrudh]

So when do you have to be min lvl 18 to complete shroud or even be allowed in a shroud group. Lol things have gotten so sad and the players are that bad that you can no longer do shroud with charactors of the appropriate lvl for the quest range. Does anyone remember when you had to be a decent player and by the time you were lvl 13 you where flagged for shroud and running it?

The new world of must be over powered to run a quest is pathetic and sad!

The first shrouds (with our level 15s) were hard... Parties wiped... 3 rounds in Part 4 was normal....

We got better... Some people managed to get Greensteel crafted.... DPS started going up... Shrouds were completed faster, less wipes....

For a long time, Shroud was end-game... No new content... Many people quit the game... Less people were playing... The ones that were still here were dedicated gamers... After a year, everyone who was still here and doing Shroud was decked out with Min IIs...

Transmuting weapons were also common...

Even the 13s who joined were being played by experienced players with the right gear...

Now, come FTP...

Suddenly there are lots of people without Min II... Transmuting no longer exists... Now you need metalline of pure good, which is much more rare....

A level 13 asking to join the Shroud is more likely to be run by an inexperienced player... Maybe it's a TR, but unlikely.... most good players running TRs aren't wasting Vale experience and powerleveling penalties at level 13.

The truth is... yes we did Shrould at level 13 "back in the day"... But they weren't smooth runs.... not until later when you had a bunch of highly experienced well-geared 16s along as well...

Taking a 13 along today is very likely to be wasted spot... and in a pure PUG, you may not be able to afford that spot, since half the 18s you're bringing along may suck as well.

People forget that Shroud was hard once... That we once had to separate the lieutenants... That getting the devil and fire made the whole party groan (some lame groups even gave up if they got the devil). 3 rounds in Part 4 was normal... People had to back off Harry in Part 5 and range him for a while so the clerics could get their SP back.

There's nothing illogical or "weak" about declining a 13th level character to a 17th level raid.

[Milton]

This topic seems to keep coming up... so considering my Shroud lfms are always labeled on the LFM as 18-20, let me just state that I'm too lazy to change it. It always ends up suprising me when a lvl 17 or 16 sends me a tell whether it'd be okay if they joined... until i realize the LFM is set at 18-20.

[donfilibuster]

It might be that Shroud can be run at level, or Zawabi's Revenge, or VON, or Reaver's Fate, but it'd be very hard to fill and there's few incentives to do so.
There's plenty of new players amazed at tempest spine, then get sands for the raid and find it is nothing like it and that no one runs it at level.

First, people are 'at level' for a short period of time and if you have the packs it won't be long until you have your first level 20 toon.
The level 18-20s are thus the 'farmers', with the incentives of a faster and flawless run, grinding for mats and seeking loot for their reincarnations.
The way quests have easy buttons these days you need not have any raid loot the first life of a toon, but certainly need them at the second.

Second, the lv 17-18 toons have the top level spells and abilities.
Can you even do Shroud without wail of the banshee, waves of exhaustion or mass cure critical wounds?
Melees have less of a problem, they are quite able at those levels.

And lastly, people is free to do their own groups, yet is hard not quite easy to lead them so people prefer a good group over a PUG or a group that is at level.
And for Shroud, there's people that prefer to have a certain class balance, like 2 healers 1 caster so it narrows down the available groups.
If these people see your lfm at level and taking everyone in, they won't join and there's often lfm ads that sit there in the list without anyone joining.

[Elation]

I do understand that alot of older players had it down and it was a bit challanging not really a struggle after the first two months or so..

Purg add a real cooment or shut up see i can say stupid things too... I lead my share of raids so whats your issue..
My statement was made after i made a raid completed it with my lvl 16 in a group of lvl 15-16 after someone i declined got mad that i wouldnt take his 20 lvl toon because with out capped toons you cant complete.

Lvl appropirate when the raid was released the cap was 16 and it was run on a regular basis with lvl 14-16 all difficulties with little trouble most the time.

Also I do agree it does seem overall quality of player has dropped i can see that being an issue accept the quality of player is an issue at 13 or 16 or 20 lvl doesnt really matter.

I can see that being a reason. I guess thats why its beter not to PUG anything anymore. Missing the old days when pugging was normal.

[Hordo]

Just out of curiosity, why do some players refer to running Shrouds, Hounds and VoDs "level appropriate" when it comes to level 13-15 toons? Shroud is a level 17 quest on norm, the other two are 18... so wouldn't "level appropriate" toons be 17-18?

Not saying you can't do it at whichever level you feel comfortable doing it, if your build, gear and game knowledge are solid; not saying people didn't complete them when level cap was [insert whichever level cap here] - just wondering if the quests as such were lower level some time ago or if most people just have a different perception of what "level appropriate" means than me.

Because of the ridiculously long time we had a level 16 level cap and the fact that level 16 toons with NO Shroud crafting but proper regular weapons and equipment can run those raids on elite just as easily as many of the level 20s who have joined the game in the last year or so fully equipped. It's a matter of experience over superstition.

Still, all told, if you are doing an Elite Shroud with level 16s it still shouldn't take more than 45 minutes or you all need to /reroll. *snicker*

[cyadra]

I took a year off once my sorc capped at 16, and have recently returned trying to fiure out what to do (my guild had even vanished on me and I am running around guildless)...what is this we dont have to separate the lieutanants anymore?

[Elation]

Cyad yeah most shroud groups can now do enough dps to overwhelm all the boss all though you still seem to see ele seperated in most runs the others just get dropped and unless its cat usually as soon as it is possible to kill them

[unscythe]

I did a shroud with my level 16 cleric a few months back. First life with no gear, personally felt like it was a pike run. :P But then again I think healing is a piking job anyways.

[Pantsless]

This topic seems to keep coming up... so considering my Shroud lfms are always labeled on the LFM as 18-20, let me just state that I'm too lazy to change it. It always ends up suprising me when a lvl 17 or 16 sends me a tell whether it'd be okay if they joined... until i realize the LFM is set at 18-20.

I think Milton is maybe nailing it here. Did the OP get rejected for not being 18+, or is he just irritated from seeing LFM's from level 20's who didn't bother to alter the default level range?

[vVAnjilaVv]

I don't know OP, while I agree to a certain point...the fact of the matter is keeping most Shroud runs level 18-20 assures u will not end up with a bunch of F2P/just barely Premium players from being in your group.

The Shroud is old and done, and with the drop rates being so incredibly low sometimes, I can't really say I blame the people who have been around for a long time for not wanting to bother with it anymore at appropriate level.

It also encourages lower level toons to get into the 18'ish level range so they can more easily get into Shroud raids and/or encourages finding a friendly guild that will help them out while they are still lower level.....which isn't exactly a bad thing.

And another thing to keep in mind whether you want to call me elitist or whatever....the truth is once this game went F2P the level of inexperienced/poor players rose. This is simply a fact you cannot ignore. When it was pre-EU..new players were nurtured through.....now it's a melting pot, and many new players are simply left to the wolves or lack the integrity to deserve being worth a veterans time.

[donfilibuster]

Well in Orien there was a trend of players lacking the dps, hp and fortitude to melee harry.
Thus a lot of LFMs asked to link boss beaters, but lately there's more acceptance of rogues and arcane archers.

Besides there were a lot of players who piked or zerged the vale quests and thus came to the Shroud unprepared or unwilling to do team play.

[phillymiket]

My observations (from Ghallanda - but I like getting in y'all'ses buisness )

- Ive tried to run a toon just doing Hard and Elite at level with no grinding and no farming. When I was at 14-15 I was trying to get people to do Vale quests. The Vets and TRs I was leveling with didn't want to run Vale because they wanted to "save" the Vale because of the lack of end game content.

- The majority of my Shroud completions have been on a level 20 grinding out ingredients. After I get Elite favor all I really want to do is get completions and larges. Call me lazy but I want fast n' easy. Most of the people in my groups seem to want that as well. Heck, you see many people annoyed that people are wasting time to (gasp) buff. These people are mostly not newer folks.

- Most people who start Shroud groups are vets.

Sooooo, it's not just us Johnny Come Latelys who are to blame for the level requirements for the Shroud these days.

When you start level 14-17 Shroud groups do they not fill? (honest question)

I figure if you build it, they will come.(and learn)

Maybe I'm wrong.

Respectfully,

Ghallanda guy.

[vVAnjilaVv]

When you start level 14-17 Shroud groups do they not fill? (honest question)

I think honestly if you make 14-17 Shroud groups they will probably definitely fill.......getting completion is a while 'nother story tho.

All it takes is one or two weak links, especially if your doing it with players in this level range to fail this raid.........and there are enough level 18-20's who have a hard time listening.......the problem only escalates for lower level groups.