Against Demon Queen [Part-1] Shards Drop Rate

[Qezuzu]

I think the 20th completion=Ingrids is a great idea. Also, reduce the number of items in Sands. Most are hardly even as good as their normal counterpart.

For the hardest epics in the game, the ability to actually complete an item is far less than Fens or Carnival, which are very easy.

[sirgog]

Nope. What these folks are all saying is we are wasting our time by actually doing the quest the first year. We should just wait a year and then we get rewarded. So waiting gets rewarded - what a bunch of phooey. Its been 3-4 years since the VOD raid came out so lets just give people an 80% chance at the tharnes goggles after 5 runs - I mean man its been 3-4 years so they should get the loot 3-4 times faster at this point so about 5 runs sound good?

Uh- that was EXACTLY what they just did with the Reaver's Refuge.

When it was the premier endgame content - it was really hard to get that specific Sovereign Rune you wanted.

Now you can gear up a new toon through the Refuge quickly, get your perfect (or second best) armor in 3-10 runs of each quest, then get onto the actual endgame content. Turbine like this - they get to sell you a new pack once you 'finish' the one you have.


Not to mention that they did make VOD significantly easier when the cap went to 20 adding Frenzied Berserker, KoTC, Kensai and more, adding 25-100% to melee DPS. It got easier again when they added Archmage (making CCing the trash even easier than killing it) and when they reduced Suulo's DR on hard/elite in the update (I think it was Update 3) where all the devil DRs got nerfed from 15/30/60 to 15/25/35 and all the epic DR 40 mobs got nerfed to DR 20. So Tharne's Goggles *are* easier to get now than they used to be. It gets easier again when new items get added (like the Epic Vulkoorim Fighting Leathers) that replace Tharne's in some gear setups, meaning less people rolling on the goggles when they do drop.

[Anthios888]

Well you have my respect Anthios88, but I have to say lets reward the people that did the work. Giving people an incentive to wait a year for loot means I quit. If you tell me I should wait a year then invest a bunch of time after a year then I get my loot the same as somebody else that slaved their butt off then I quit. If this proposal is reward the fools that ran Epic Offering of Blood or Epic Wiz king or Epic Dq1 or Epic Dq2 then I am all for it, but it reads as penalize veterans who ran the quests over and over and reward the players that just signed up and have not run it, but now decide to run it. How can you support that drivel I mean seroiusly its been a whole year.

Who cares about new players vs old players? I'm an old player, and I have some fabulous desert loot. Not all of us are done out there. You yourself have posted many times how unattainable certain epic items from the desert are, and how you would not include them in builds. Why? When even the most loyal grinders can't find rewards in a year of playing a given area, it seems off base. I am rich and lucky ... we have 4 epic chaosblades, epic marilith chains... yet I know there is no hope of getting the shard of spiked turban that I still need. That is just dumb.

[ddoer]

Please fix the Spell Storing Ring shard drop rate! I am in a high end guild and know people who know most regular epic runners on my server directly and indirectly. There are probably around 3 SS rings on the server. The shard drop rate is ridiculously low.

[BlackSteel]

only thing I dont like about a token trade in mechanic is that you can farm the sissy epics for tokens then buy desert loot with it.


the biggest problem with the desert is the buttload of items right?

How about making the items more quest specific. Take the explorer shards AND items out of the raid chest. Add them only to the preraid at a much higher %. Frankly I'm tired of having my raid loot roll taken up with a freaking regular whirlwind.

To top it off double the scroll drop rate in the desert from 1% to 2%.

Epic raid drops raid loot and only raid item shards.

DQ1 drops explorer items and explorer shards. Have it around 30% chance at a shard. An average of 2 shards per attempt for six people I'd consider fair; considering the preraid is often far more difficult and time consuming than the actual raid. Lowballing the drops in DQ1 gives almost no incentive to run it.



Any glaring problems with a change like this?

[jkm]

only thing I dont like about a token trade in mechanic is that you can farm the sissy epics for tokens then buy desert loot with it.


the biggest problem with the desert is the buttload of items right?

How about making the items more quest specific. Take the explorer shards AND items out of the raid chest. Add them only to the preraid at a much higher %. Frankly I'm tired of having my raid loot roll taken up with a freaking regular whirlwind.

To top it off double the scroll drop rate in the desert from 1% to 2%.

Epic raid drops raid loot and only raid item shards.

DQ1 drops explorer items and explorer shards. Have it around 30% chance at a shard. An average of 2 shards per attempt for six people I'd consider fair; considering the preraid is often far more difficult and time consuming than the actual raid. Lowballing the drops in DQ1 gives almost no incentive to run it.

Any glaring problems with a change like this?

honestly, having shards in the preraid at all is problematic because you are locked out of it for 2 1/2 days after you do the raid. yes, i know there are ways around this, but by design, there aren't supposed to be.

i'd actually prefer they increase the epic timer on EADQ to 2 days and put 1 shard in for everyone.

[BlackSteel]

honestly, having shards in the preraid at all is problematic because you are locked out of it for 2 1/2 days after you do the raid. yes, i know there are ways around this, but by design, there aren't supposed to be.

i'd actually prefer they increase the epic timer on EADQ to 2 days and put 1 shard in for everyone.

you can still run the preraid as long as someone in the group can open it. (and you're not on epic timer for DQ1)

ah nvm, I guess thats what you meant by the second line

[maddmatt70]

As I said in my earlier post people that spent the last year running these quests should be rewarded. After 20 and other multiplies of 20 runs of an epic quest a character should get a 20% chance in their end reward list of getting a bound to account epic item that is based in that quest. For instance in Offering of Blood a 20% chance of getting a epic ward of undeath, epic spectral gloves, epic vulkorim fighting leather, and every other item based in that quest. etc. A player could end up with 0 items or 3 epic items to choose from after a given multiply of 20.

Increasing the drop rate does not fix this issue. This will provide a real solution to this issue.

[Glenalth]

Another option...

Take the desert quests that are not yet epic and add epic mode. Then allocate specific explorer area seal and shard drops to them.

Maraud the Mines gets the items that drop from gnolls.
The longer of the two tombs gets the items that drop from undead.
Raid the Vulkoorim gets the items that drop from drow and scorrow.
Purge the Fallen Shrine for the mephit and elemental drops.

It would also add more variety to the desert epics.

[Strakeln]

a lot of the problem is that the devs do a very poor job properly balancing items.

Clearly the solution is to add 6 more crappy suffixes and 6 more crappy prefixes. Then all items will be balanced!

[jkm]

Clearly the solution is to add 6 more crappy suffixes and 6 more crappy prefixes. Then all items will be balanced!

actually, i think this allows for easier balancing when new items come into the game.

lets take scimitar a and scimitar b each with a tier 1 effect and a crappy prefix attached

scimitar a - extra crit range 14-20, maiming

scimitar b - extra crit mod on 19-20, slowburst

each has their uses and may/may not be desireable to certain builds

compare this with

scimitar c - extra crit range 14-20, extra crit mod x1, stunning 10

its better than the other 2 in every situation. so much that khopesh users would drop their khopeshes and grab it.

on nearly every item slot the devs have put something like this in the game. and instead of trying to bring its down to what it should have been, they try to add more powerful items into the game to balance it out. so instead of the power creep in the game expanding slowly, they exponentially push it up in one release.

[Wheatbread]

Simple fix to ADQ1 and 2.

Second chest in ADQ2 : Change it to give a chance of a seal also.

ADQ 1. Put 2 shrines in the middle, remove balls. Remove seals from all side chests. Place a chest at the end of each hallway with a chance for a seal. End chest after queen, increase the drop rates a bit more and add a second token for reward.

[Auran82]

Add another quest completion counter.

Something like /epicquest completions

Desert quests: 5
VON quests: 8
Red Fens quests: 6
etc
etc

At each 20th (or maybe 10) give you a special end reward where you get a list of seals/shards from that area with maybe the option of 2 epic tokens if there is nothing you want.

Or somesuch.

[Strakeln]

Add another quest completion counter.

Something like /epicquest completions

Desert quests: 5
VON quests: 8
Red Fens quests: 6
etc
etc

At each 20th (or maybe 10) give you a special end reward where you get a list of seals/shards from that area with maybe the option of 2 epic tokens if there is nothing you want.

Or somesuch.

Remember, aim high so the nerf hurts less.

"...list of all seals/shards..."

[Thelmallen]

Well you have my respect Anthios88, but I have to say lets reward the people that did the work. Giving people an incentive to wait a year for loot means I quit. If you tell me I should wait a year then invest a bunch of time after a year then I get my loot the same as somebody else that slaved their butt off then I quit. If this proposal is reward the fools that ran Epic Offering of Blood or Epic Wiz king or Epic Dq1 or Epic Dq2 then I am all for it, but it reads as penalize veterans who ran the quests over and over and reward the players that just signed up and have not run it, but now decide to run it. How can you support that drivel I mean seroiusly its been a whole year.

Matt, you already got your reward by building the epic items. While I often appreciate your fresh perspective on posts, the logic of this one escapes me. You're saying, "Yeah, it's crappy but I spent a lot of time farming it so they can't change it now cuz it makes it easier for people to come along and do what I had to work my butt off for". Self-centered and short-sighted, in my opinion.

What's happening is that people simply aren't running the quests anymore because the reward is so low compared to the newer epic areas. A year ago, we farmed the **** out of it because that's all there was to do. Now we have options. If they want to keep this area alive, it needs to be brought in line with the other areas. In addition, the loot out there is comparable to the newer areas, not better not worse, so why should it be so much more difficult to obtain?

[Cyr]

Whatever actually happens here (and I seriously doubt a retro-active 20th completions per quest system is ever going to implemented although I think this is the most fair and logical manner of addressing the issue) the basic premise of having loot that is harder to obtain by virtue of length of grind is a poor one.

Loot should always be tied to the difficulty of the quest and not the grind involved.

This means that as quests go up in level loot MUST scale to provide proper incentives to run the quests and when difficulty jumps up dramatically in the same level range then so too the quality of the loot has to scale upwards dramatically. It also means that grind should not enter into the equation except in lateral difficulty quests (quest X and Y are the same difficulty a slightly better item could be obtained from Y due to some grindy mechanic, but that loot from Y should not be better then the loot from quest Z which is clealry harder no matter what grind is involved in getting quest Z's loot).

[EyeRekon]

I'm fine with Sands epic ingredients being rarer than other zones. They certainly don't even have to match the drop rates of ingredients of other zones. Yet I also believe that the Sands drop rates are horribly borked - something simply must be wrong and not WAI.

I'd be satisfied with a basic review and whatever tweaks Devs see as appropriate. Either

• Fix it so that things actually drop
• Confirm the rates are WAI and Sands epic items will remain a status symbol of grinding and bartering.

[krackythehoodedone]

Ok so their is a problem with the equlibrium of desert shard drop rates.

Some however like the beloved vanbraces or letter opener shard drop faster than Tigers pants.

Others like the Mari Chain shard or other really powerful raid shards drop with about the right frequency to reflect the power of the item.

this is because the respective Shards have an increased drop rate from their 'home' quest. IE The Letter Opener from Wizzy or the Mari Chain from DQ2. Further the number of named items from that particular quest also affects the drop rate. Hence you do a few Wizzies and you'll be weighed down with unwanted Epic Letter Openers..unless you receive bucket loads of fan mail

Where the system falls down is the Shards for the items found in the explorer area. They can only drop in DQ1/2 and dont have an increased drop rate in the main raid.

The outcome being, oh students of probability is that the chance of getting your spell storing ring or Thornlord Shard is..After much mental calculation and scientific study...bugger all..!!? Not gonna happen Me old Son well probably not anyway

So this is in my humble opinion what needs fixing.

Please sort it Uncle Turbine. I did love that guys idea about Epiccing the two side quests and making them the 'home' quest for the explorer area item shards

Otherwise it will be my 88th Epic DQ2 tonite in search of so called Thornlord Shard, which obviously doesnt exist?

[LookingForABentoBox]

I agree that the drop rate is too low. It's frustrating to do the whole quest and have 6 people loot the chest and have no shard at all drop. This happens often with DQ1.

/signed

[Maelphistez]

/signed. It needs fixing in a serious way.

Another alternative suggestion... make the explorer area epic selectable as well. Move all the epic scroll/shard drops for the explorer area into their respective chests. Put the explorer area seals into ADQ epic chest and all the raid loot scrolls/shards in ADQ and the seals in the Zawabi epic chest.