A Call to Improve the Viability of Elves

[eowilson]

Elves are fine.

[Alabore]

Elves are fine.

Dwarves are known to be coarse, though, at times.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

One of my many Elf Rgrs put on the Crimson Chain last night.....and it lowered her AC.

It got me thinking about this thread.

It would be nice if Elves had the enhancemnt line (forgetting name right now) that increases your allowed Dex modifier to armor.

Seems to me that the race known for the creation of Elfin chain mail, and a high Dex race, would have this ability.

(I wouldn't mind seeing it combined with the one that reduces arcane spell failure as well.)

[grodon9999]

One of my many Elf Rgrs put on the Crimson Chain last night.....and it lowered her AC.

It got me thinking about this thread.

It would be nice if Elves had the enhancemnt line (forgetting name right now) that increases your allowed Dex modifier to armor.

Seems to me that the race known for the creation of Elfin chain mail, and a high Dex race, would have this ability.

(I wouldn't mind seeing it combined with the one that reduces arcane spell failure as well.)

Just take a monk level. But yeah, it would be nice.

[thecreechmmo]

Elves are fine.

QFT. I have a Elf Arcane Archer Ranger I am working on, currently level 15. I played around with the character planner and well...I'm not impressed by H-Elf for Arcane Archer at all. AylinYouAreNotAwesome.

Basically I could create a H-Elf that ends up with the same strength, same con, one less dex, same wis (int and cha stay at 8, seriously was there ever any question?) and gets 3d6 more Sneak Attack Damage (Rogue Dilettante) plus a bunch of increased healing enhancements, loses base attack and damage rolls on ranged attacks, gains a boost ability to increase damage, attack rolls and skills by 3, loses some melee enhancements but instead is forced to take a trash favored defense and resistance enhancement.

I'm not convinced that H-Elves came along and mucked up the best race for an Arcane Archer. Sure they are viable, but in my opinion I think Elves are a superior choice over any of the other race options.

-theCreecH

[NaturalHazard]

Please do something!!

[Failedlegend]

Please do something!!

RISE FROM THE ASHES!!!!!!!!!!!

[voodoogroves]

Got a new thought ...

Let the Dragonmark of Shadow boost assassinate DCs +1 per tier. Possibly also Quivering Palm and / or dark monk maneuver DCs.

Espionage, right? Let's give them some mechanical benefits to it.



Also ... BUMP

[ChronicGenius1]

I would like to see an option to choose the racial bonus of the elf between dex int and cha, and the racial penalty to con or str (to make them desirable as arcane casters) and a better elven arcanum, possibly giving bonuses to spell DC's.

[Talias006]

Got a new thought ...

Let the Dragonmark of Shadow boost assassinate DCs +1 per tier. Possibly also Quivering Palm and / or dark monk maneuver DCs.

Espionage, right? Let's give them some mechanical benefits to it.



Also ... BUMP

Why not just manifest it as a +1 to stealthy combat (or just all combat) related DC's in general?
That would make it more worthy of a feat slot, IMO.

[Varashad]

Elves are supposed to be very good at fighting with two weapons at once aren't they? I've never heard of an elf using anything other than two swords. I would suggest giving them a line similar to the half-orc Orcish Melee Damage, which gives +2/+4 damage per hit when wielding a two handed weapon. Elves could maybe gain +1/+2 damage per hit when fighting with two weapons. This, combined with rapier/scimitar/longsword bonuses is a reasonable bonus to damage that is about equal to the half-orc/warforged power attack enhancements.

Secondly, elves live in the forests. Forests are nature. Elves, living in nature, should have naturally toughened skin to deal with the extreme temperatures. Give elves a choice of natural resistances(minor) to one of the four natural elements. Maybe 5 inherent resistance to fire, acid, cold or lighting? Not terribly powerful, but a nice little boost.

Third, because elves are lighter, thinner and smaller than humans and other races, I don't think it would be too over powering to give elves, drow and halflings a +5% natural bonus to movement speed as long as their encumbrance is light or medium, and their armor is medium or lower. The reason for these penalties is that, as physically weaker races, they cannot handle the heavy weight of full plate armor, or the burden of carrying a ton of gear.

[Failedlegend]

I for one think it will be hilarious if the new enhancements system + the enhancement improvement/rewrites somehow make Elves the best race.

Oh and....

[Talias006]

The reason for these penalties is that, as physically weaker races, they cannot handle the heavy weight of full plate armor, or the burden of carrying a ton of gear.

Interesting ideas.
You had my attention until you did this^.

Halflings are the physically weaker race here (-2 Str), not Elves or Drow.
Elves and Drow are both more frail (-2 Con), but that doesn't necessarily make them weaker.

As for other elves utilizing other than 2 weapons, you need to expand your literary horizons as there are plenty of novels detailing elves using just a single weapon rather than dual wielding.

[HatsuharuZ]

Is it is now, E.A. would be alot more useful if it were available to bards, sorcerers and artificers, not just wizards. I never understood that restriction, anyways.

[Varashad]

Interesting ideas.
You had my attention until you did this^.

Halflings are the physically weaker race here (-2 Str), not Elves or Drow.
Elves and Drow are both more frail (-2 Con), but that doesn't necessarily make them weaker.

As for other elves utilizing other than 2 weapons, you need to expand your literary horizons as there are plenty of novels detailing elves using just a single weapon rather than dual wielding.

Frail: having delicate health; not robust; weak: - From Dictionary.com

I would consider delicate health and a lack of being robust to directly contribute to being unable to bare the burden of a heavy load or armor.

Your second point is fair. Generally when I think of elves I think of Legolas from LotR, who wielded a bow and a pair of swords as his weapons. The point of the thread was to add elves to the list of races who are viable for classes other than arcane archers. I think my suggestions would very effectively do this.

[FranOhmsford]

Coming from AD&D 2nd Ed. I used to love the Bladesinger {fighter/mage} Kit.

Bladesingers wielded one single handed weapon so as to cast spells with the offhand.

[licho]

Coming from AD&D 2nd Ed. I used to love the Bladesinger {fighter/mage} Kit.

Bladesingers wielded one single handed weapon so as to cast spells with the offhand.

Yes the bladesingers/spellswords/eldrich knights will be the great add to the game.
Something like Artificers, but without specialist perks (more fighter type) and with sword instead of xbow.

[Failedlegend]

Coming from AD&D 2nd Ed. I used to love the Bladesinger {fighter/mage} Kit.

Bladesingers wielded one single handed weapon so as to cast spells with the offhand.

Yes the bladesingers/spellswords/eldrich knights will be the great add to the game.
Something like Artificers, but without specialist perks (more fighter type) and with sword instead of xbow.

Funny how the devs gave us a prestige that is a a mix of eldritch knight and spellsword both of which traditionally use a 1-handed weapon allowing their off-hand to be free for a spell (alternatively an orb, tome, stave,etc. work as well) but it focuses entirely on wielding a shield.