Could the new items make newbies weaker??

[Draccus]

I've just glanced at some of the new items, but, at first look, it appears they are designed to make it far easier for new players to gain things like Seeker +6. Farming bloodstones, something most of us have done, just became relatively needless. You can't read the main forums without seeing a thread from a new player complaining about having "ransacked the desert chests TWICE" and not having pulled his bloodstone. The devs have, apparently, heard their cries.

But are these new items going to make weaker characters? I can see a new player happily tossing his easy-to-obtain Minos Legen for his new Pirate Hat with Seeker 6 without a plan to replace Heavy Fort or the hit points. Since most new players don't have an epic item to slot heavy fort, will some of them (many of them?) just ignore heavy fort?

So are we going to see players go from having heavy fort and +20 hp to having Seeker 6?

[GoldyGopher]

When I thumbed through the new items my first thought was "this is going to slot frack a lot of people".

Not that most builds aren't slot fracked in the first place until you get some specific gear, however I did worry about the same concept you did.

[BoolZ]

I think if they a player went through the trouble of getting 20 taps for Minos then, hopefully, they understand why they wanted Minos.

Plus if they really wanted Seeker and didn't want a Bloodstone they could just get a weapon with Seeker +6/+8/+10 on a weapon.

So no, I don't think the pirate hat will hurt that much.

[rest]

The power creep is getting a little crazy. Used to be (I know I sound like a grumpy old man here) that you had to work for your good stuff, and you had to have skills as a player to get things done. Now it seems like gear is becoming a crutch to prop up less-that-awesome players to a level that they don't really belong in. Maybe I'm just another guy who misses the "good ol days". Who knows.

[Coldin]

The power creep is getting a little crazy. Used to be (I know I sound like a grumpy old man here) that you had to work for your good stuff, and you had to have skills as a player to get things done. Now it seems like gear is becoming a crutch to prop up less-that-awesome players to a level that they don't really belong in. Maybe I'm just another guy who misses the "good ol days". Who knows.

I might agree about the power creep, but then I look at some of the Epic items and they're just as good albeit in different ways. I think the grinding will stop many of the more casual people from getting these items, and it will enable people like me who solo more to get some fancy level 20 items.

[Auran82]

People wear heavy fort and have more than 250hp at level 20?

When did this happen???

To be totally honest I hope we get more options like this to replace things like minos, it bugs the hell out of me that a level 11 helmet is still the best option for alot of builds at level 20.

[GoldyGopher]

People wear heavy fort and have more than 250hp at level 20?

When did this happen???

To be totally honest I hope we get more options like this to replace things like minos, it bugs the hell out of me that a level 11 helmet is still the best option for alot of builds at level 20.

I want to agree with this, but to do I need to add a caveat.
Most builds suffer from not having enough choices of gear to make the character, well um unique. You have to have options. I am appalled at how often I end up ‘doubling up’ on something to get the other thing I was looking for. (Two Str +6 Items for example).

**** I hope that makes sense.

[Auran82]

I want to agree with this, but to do I need to add a caveat.
Most builds suffer from not having enough choices of gear to make the character, well um unique. You have to have options. I am appalled at how often I end up ‘doubling up’ on something to get the other thing I was looking for. (Two Str +6 Items for example).

**** I hope that makes sense.

I agree entirely and I would personally like to see something stolen from Wow, the ability to 'reforge' bonuses on an item, like change a +6 stat into another +6 stat or a +1 exceptional stat, or somesuch.

I'm probably a little anal about these things, but it bugs the hell out of me having multiples of bonuses on gear (how many barbarians have at the least 2 +6 con items on from amrath) and don't get me started on Amrath sets. For alot of builds they singlehandedly tied up the necklace, belt and ring slots so people can wear sets for classes they don't have a single level in.

[zorander6]

No offense but here I see people complaining about power creep but yet my level 15 cleric is expected to have +6 items for every stat (slight exaggeration.) I can't play 60 hours a week like some people and it took me over 2 months to get the minos legions (just got it last weekend, luckily I scored a heavy fort shield previously.) I can't go into shroud cause I only have 222 HP right now apparently though that's where I need to go to get some of the things that will make my cleric shine. The best items I have right now are +4 and I did manage to luck into a bloodstone on a run of desert.

I'd like to be able to play the game without spending 60 hours a week on top of my full time job to try and be "ub3r l33t" and have all the goodies. Right now my cleric is happy to have 27k plat, though at least with rare hunting in the orchard I can start making some plat. Guess what unless it's changed seeker +6 is ML 10. My cleric got it at level 11.

Maybe I'm a "less than awesome" player but I do pay for this game because I enjoy it. Unlike some people I no longer have the freedom to just play all day and all night (wife aggro is not fun.) Do I think we should all be handed "uber" gear? No, but on the other hand some of the requirements of other players make it impossible for me to do some of the things I'd like to try, IE run shroud, run gianthold, etc.

[GoldyGopher]

I agree entirely and I would personally like to see something stolen from Wow, the ability to 'reforge' bonuses on an item, like change a +6 stat into another +6 stat or a +1 exceptional stat, or somesuch.

I'm all for that.

I'm probably a little anal about these things, but it bugs the hell out of me having multiples of bonuses on gear (how many barbarians have at the least 2 +6 con items on from amrath) and don't get me started on Amrath sets. For alot of builds they singlehandedly tied up the necklace, belt and ring slots so people can wear sets for classes they don't have a single level in.

Like a Sorc how wears the KotC Ring with +1 Exceptional (and +2 Exceptional) bonuses to Chr.
What me, hey... My Sorc still needs a GR or TR, but that's another story.

[GoldyGopher]

No offense but here I see people complaining about power creep but yet my level 15 cleric is expected to have +6 items for every stat (slight exaggeration.) I can't play 60 hours a week like some people and it took me over 2 months to get the minos legions (just got it last weekend, luckily I scored a heavy fort shield previously.) I can't go into shroud cause I only have 222 HP right now apparently though that's where I need to go to get some of the things that will make my cleric shine. The best items I have right now are +4 and I did manage to luck into a bloodstone on a run of desert.

<Snip>

Your Cleric, like anyone’s character in a group is expected to be useful or efficient at what they do. Whether it is healing, or DPS, or ...
If you believe your character needs to have 4, 5, 6 stat items to be useful, than I think there is a problem with that line of thinking. IE you are trying to do too much with your character.

[zorander6]

Your Cleric, like anyone’s character in a group is expected to be useful or efficient at what they do. Whether it is healing, or DPS, or ...
If you believe your character needs to have 4, 5, 6 stat items to be useful, than I think there is a problem with that line of thinking. IE you are trying to do too much with your character.

See the thread about "get more HP." There are tons of comments about +6 gear that people should have supposedly. So far my character does pretty well at most stuff but honestly I have have to have 5000000000000HP and 100000000000000000SP and all this gear that takes months to gather playing several hours a day in order to run a quest eventually I'll just say forget it and move on. Sure I want to try shroud crafting and I know there is a lot of grind there but I'm lucky to have 3-4 hours a week to play. If I'm really lucky I might get a couple hours more.

I'm just pointing out the assumption by some players that have tons of dosh and gear because they have been here a long time that a new player may not have 1000000000000000000000000 plat to spend on gear to get into a quest that will give them gear to do the same stuff. (Some slight exaggerations may have occurred.)

I'd love to have a con opp item, do I have time to farm for it? No not really. I'd love to have +6 gear to make my character better (remember I'm not an uber leet player that has all the time in the world and been here years.) Will I get some of this stuff eventually? Sure. But that doesn't account for the disconnect between those who expect everyone to have hours on end every day to farm tapestries or shroud ingredients and those who are lucky to log on once a week.

[Coldin]

I really don't think +6 stat items are that difficult to get. Usually once you get to level 15-17, you can start picking up random +6 items pretty cheaply. Now if you want a +6 stat item at level 11 or 13, they can be very rare and expensive.

Greensteel is certainly a different matter, as is dragontouched armor. You can probably pick up Dragontouched armor within a week, assuming you normally can play one quest a night. But it may not be very good armor, so it could take a month to get it right. Greensteel can take several months to make depending on your luck, but at least you can make exactly what you want.

Anyway, I think these barter systems actually do a good job of bridging the gap between newer and older players, since players are not held back by pre-reqs or gear requirements.

[Draccus]

To be totally honest I hope we get more options like this to replace things like minos, it bugs the hell out of me that a level 11 helmet is still the best option for alot of builds at level 20.

I posted nearly the same thing on my guild site today.

My main character has 4 epic items, 14 greensteels, the rest of the slots full of raid items, and I STILL don't have a better replacement for my Level 11 Minos Legen.

[voodoogroves]

Draccus, I expect we'll see some of that. We'll also see plenty of already-geared characters ignoring them.

Then again, we may see new-ish characters farming out a Heavy Fort/Intim+15 helm and ditching the Min2 HP item, instead going a different path, etc.

There will be bad, but there will also be definite optimization possible (and done).

[Anthios888]

Heavy fort comes on a ton of gear. Rings, belts, greensteels, epic slots. Toughness might be tougher pre-epic, but there is so much diversity in gear right now.

Don't forget that this event also passes out epic armor to the newbs, too, meaning they can slot either heavy fort or toughness on there with 30 dungeon tokens.

[Kaeldur]

Nightforge... That's heavy fort. The 20 HP, while extremely useful, is not mandatory. So um... IMO not a big issue. Until you reach lvl 18 (ToD sets), but by then you can have Heavy Fort on DT armor, so again, not really an issue...

[voodoogroves]

Heavy fort comes on a ton of gear. Rings, belts, greensteels, epic slots. Toughness might be tougher pre-epic, but there is so much diversity in gear right now.

Don't forget that this event also passes out epic armor to the newbs, too, meaning they can slot either heavy fort or toughness on there with 30 dungeon tokens.

Makes the pinkforged docent an easier play too w/ less overlap.

[Mister_Peace]

Anyway, I think these barter systems actually do a good job of bridging the gap between newer and older players, since players are not held back by pre-reqs or gear requirements.

Yes, the Maiming Rocksplitters and such are the perfect gear for new characters who want to group with vets.

[Alabore]

Plus if they really wanted Seeker and didn't want a Bloodstone they could just get a weapon with Seeker +6/+8/+10 on a weapon.

With U5 changes, most of my dual wielding chars are already doing that.